Did I not drink the beer fast enough?

[pc_trott]

Made my first beer ever, Block Party Amber from NB, on Jan 15th of this year. Bottled it on Feb 7th. Drank a bottle on Feb. 21st. It was very good, not great, but very good. Served some to guests on March 12th, and they all raved about it. (I have nice friends, or at least ones that appreciate free beer.) I started a Bavarian Hefeweizen on Feb. 11th, and bottled it on March 3rd. Tried some on March 24th. Again, not great, but good. But as time has gone on both beers, instead of getting better, have gotten worse! Both of them now leave a strange flavor on the tongue after swallowing. From what I've read about oxygenation, and the cardboard flavor it leaves, I wonder if that's what's going on with these beers, because I can imagine that the flavor I'm tasting is kind of like cardboard. But I can't for the life of me figure out where in my brewing process oxygenation would have taken place. So is it just that I didn't drink this beer fast enough? Are both of these recipes beers that are meant to be drunk young? Does "young" mean within a month or so? Thanks for any responses.

 

[TurnipGreen]

Welcome to brewing. The best solution to a mediocre beer, is brewing an other batch. You get better and learn a little each time. So, quick, start up an other batch.

It’s hard to keep oxygen out when bottling. A couple things that could lead to it are excessive headspace, splashing when transferring to a bottling bucket, air in your syphon, bubbles or splashing when you fill the bottles.

 

[Harleybrew32]

Try taking some notes during your brewday, so you can go back and look at what you did if you plan to brew it again. try a real simple beer like a Single Malt and Single Hop beer or a pale ale. brew it a few times and see if it gets better with each brew. its harder to figure out your brewing mistakes when you brew different beers every time. even try brewing small batches.
cheers

 

[Teufelhunde]

I've never had a batch last that long to know........

 

[lowtones84]

It’s hard to keep oxygen out when bottling. A couple things that could lead to it are excessive headspace, splashing when transferring to a bottling bucket, air in your syphon, bubbles or splashing when you fill the bottles.

Just echoing this sentiment. It is certainly possible with good practices to introduce a minimal amount of oxygen while bottling, but a little will always be present. Hoppy beers tend to see the biggest dropoff from this, but any beer will, really. Do your absolute best to have no splashing during bottling or bubbles in your lines, but some is often unavoidable.

It's not the end of the world. I bottled for almost a decade and made some great stuff. For certain styles I still prefer a great bottle condition on a beer than the same beer draft.

 

[pc_trott]

Thanks for the replies. Does oxygenation take awhile to show up? In the first couple of weeks after bottling the beer tasted pretty good. A month later it has this aftertaste that is not all that pleasant.

 

[eric19312]

There are lots of possible issues here, oxygen is possible but I’d guess contamination. Bottle conditioned beer is naturally protected from oxidation...the bottle fermentation can scavenge a fair amount of oxygen that slips in during bottling. Unless you were really careless splashing etc, or I guess really sensitive, seeing signs of oxidation in a month with bottle conditioning sounds questionable.

On other hand, bottle conditioned beer that tasted good at 2-3 weeks and then started tasting off at 3-5 weeks sounds a whole lot like contamination.

I believe kegging leads to focusing concern on oxidation because brewers that keg add no fermentables at packaging and then keep the kegs cold, further preventing growth of contamination. The beer is however unprotected from oxidation since no oxygen scavenging refermentation will occur—any oxygen that got into the keg is going to do its damage. On other hand brewers that bottle store the bottles at room temp after adding fermentable sugars. Any contamination in bottle conditioned beer is given ideal conditions to express itself while at same time at least some of the oxygen that got into the bottle will be mitigated.

 

[TurnipGreen]

Thanks for the replies. Does oxygenation take awhile to show up? In the first couple of weeks after bottling the beer tasted pretty good. A month later it has this aftertaste that is not all that pleasant.

When I’ve had oxygenation in the bottle it happens within a month or two of bottling. If you have a lighter beer you’ll notice a darker color change too. That might not be obvious in you amber beer.

 

[BrewBuilder19]

I had the same problem with the Block Party Amber from NB which was also the first beer I ever brewed. Before bottling I tasted a sample and other then the slight taste of fusel alcohol (I pitched the yeast way too warm) it was good not great but def drinkable. Being impatient I tried 1 ever week into bottle conditioning and at around week 3 the beer was all carbed up but I noticed this strange "tangy" flavor that wasn't there before. As time went on certain bottles I would drink had a metallic like flavor to the point where I had to dump most of them.

I got frustrated and started researching and realized that I didn't do nearly enough to clean/sanitize the bottles before filling. After that I became crazy about cleaning/sanitizing bottles before filling them and I never had the problem again. What are you doing to clean and sanitize your bottles (there's a difference)? I agree with Eric that it might be contamination.

Also, there are some beers that tend to taste duller as time goes on. Hefe's are one of them that are best when fresh. Anyways hope this helps.

 

[lowtones84]

A lot of good advice/perspective here. Cleaning bottles with PBW before sanitizing is critical, because even with a good "triple rinse" that people describe, if you actually look carefully many bottles will have a slight haze of yeast on the bottom of the bottle, which then makes it difficult to truly sanitize. If you notice a different taste in some bottles but not others, this is very likely the case.

Eric19312 is also correct in that it could very well be a slight contamination that took a bit to show up. However, I do disagree -somewhat- on the oxygen scavenging. I have seen beers be oxidized within 2-3 weeks of bottling, even with good technique. This is, once again, most noticeable on very hoppy beers, especially those with plenty of late hops. Yeast will scavenge oxygen, but in my experience the effects of introduction of oxygen can happen before it's really used by the yeast.

 

[dwhite60]

Oxygenated beer usually gets darker with time.

Is it noticeably darker?

 

[lowtones84]

While darkening is a sign, it is not the only symptom and doesn't always present. With something like an Amber that may be hard to tell.

Once again, even if it is oxidized or contaminated, all hope is not lost. Good bottled beer that lasts -is- possible despite what some might say.

 

[pc_trott]

I got frustrated and started researching and realized that I didn't do nearly enough to clean/sanitize the bottles before filling. After that I became crazy about cleaning/sanitizing bottles before filling them and I never had the problem again. What are you doing to clean and sanitize your bottles (there's a difference)? I agree with Eric that it might be contamination.

Also, there are some beers that tend to taste duller as time goes on. Hefe's are one of them that are best when fresh. Anyways hope this helps.

I have to admit that I've only been using PBW on commercial bottles that need to have the labels removed. The bottles that did not have any labels, I've only rinsed with Star San. And I have noticed that this seems to be affecting some bottles more than others. Thanks, I'll be soaking all bottles in PBW from now on.

As for Hefes being best when fresh, what is the definition of "fresh?" One month? two?

Thanks again for all the helpful responses. I've got a lot to learn.

 

[pc_trott]

Oxygenated beer usually gets darker with time.

Is it noticeably darker?

I haven't noticed it being any darker, so I'm thinking it must be a cleaning problem. (Note to self: Don't take any shortcuts!)

 

[Harleybrew32]

my hefe usually only lasts a little over a month. so i would say best before 2 months at the most.
This is only my opinion so take it with a grain of salt
cheers

 

[BrewBuilder19]

my hefe usually only lasts a little over a month. so i would say best before 2 months at the most.
This is only my opinion so take it with a grain of salt
cheers

yea I think thats a fair timeline. This is also an opinion but when I say fresh I mean as soon as they are carbed up and chilled is when they are best. I watched a video with jon palmer and i think he put it well that they just tend to taste less interesting over time. Hoppy beers will also lose hop flavor/aroma as time goes on. Luckily the alcohol wont be lost

 

[pc_trott]

yea I think thats a fair timeline. This is also an opinion but when I say fresh I mean as soon as they are carbed up and chilled is when they are best. I watched a video with jon palmer and i think he put it well that they just tend to taste less interesting over time. Hoppy beers will also lose hop flavor/aroma as time goes on. Luckily the alcohol wont be lost

So a person should stick with Porters and Stouts if they want to keep them around longer to have on hand for discerning guests?

 

[Grainydays]

What temperature did you pitch at?

 

[BrewBuilder19]

So a person should stick with Porters and Stouts if they want to keep them around longer to have on hand for discerning guests?

Here's a good article. I have a 6 pack of barleywine in my basement 1.5 years old that I probably wont even touch for another 6 months - but thats kind of an extreme example

https://www.kegworks.com/blog/beer-cellaring-basics-a-guide-to-aging/

 

[Harleybrew32]

So a person should stick with Porters and Stouts if they want to keep them around longer to have on hand for discerning guests?

if you can brew a Lager styles they hold up for awhile, if they last that long really up to you though, I have a Peach sour thats been on tap for a year, its almost ready to kick. but i only have that beer once in awhile. I have a cherry sour waiting to go into it.

 

[kh54s10]

A month or even two is fresh. But all the beers should be good for much longer than that. They may lose a little but should certainly not go bad. I have kept APAs around for around for about 6 months when I had tons of bottled beers on hand. At one time I had about 12 different beers bottled at one time. Varying numbers of bottles left from 5 gallon brews, from just a few bottles to the last batch that would have been about 50 bottles. I could choose what I wanted to drink and chill a few. They probably changed but were still very good at the end.

 

[pc_trott]

What temperature did you pitch at?

I added the yeast at 69F for the amber ale, and 70F for the Hefe.

And responding to khf4s10, it's not that the beer has gone bad, its just that it leaves a not-all-that-pleasant flavor in the back of the mouth after the swallow. I guess I'll just hurry up and drink it (waste not, want not) and move on to the next batch.

 

[kh54s10]

I added the yeast at 69F for the amber ale, and 70F for the Hefe.

And responding to khf4s10, it's not that the beer has gone bad, its just that it leaves a not-all-that-pleasant flavor in the back of the mouth after the swallow. I guess I'll just hurry up and drink it (waste not, want not) and move on to the next batch.

If that taste wasn't there to start with, by all means, drink them up before they get worse.

I was trying to say that even a beer that is a style that should be drunk fresh, none should get bad really quickly. More like months. Hoppy beers will lose a lot of flavor and aroma but should not taste "bad" even after many months.

 

[BrewBuilder19]

If that taste wasn't there to start with, by all means, drink them up before they get worse.

I was trying to say that even a beer that is a style that should be drunk fresh, none should get bad really quickly. More like months. Hoppy beers will lose a lot of flavor and aroma but should not taste "bad" even after many months.

Yeaaah. I'm drinking an apa that I brewed over 3 months ago. Has the citra hop aroma and biterness faded, yes. Is it still pretty good and drinkable yes. I'm 3 deep