Did I make a mistake in bottling this?

[roxy35]

OK - so I've bottled 2 beers so far without issues. For my third beer I thought I'd try a Brewferm Belgian Tripel.


My OG was around 1.07 after adjusted for the temperature. After 2 weeks of fermenting right around 68-70 degrees, my gravity was right around 1.028-.030, so I let it sit another week and boosted the temp to around 72-73.

Well, after 3 weeks in the primary the gravity remained unchanged (picture below.) So, I bottled.

Should I be concerned that I bottled this with (what I think) is a rather high FG? The instructions for the kit are very vague...
I did add 1b DME instead of 1lb sugar.


Thoughts?

 

[unionrdr]

With an OG of 1.07x,I'd say 1.028 is still a little bit high,but within a few points of where it should be. What co2 volume did you prime it to?

 

[roxy35]

Trying to stay true to the style, I primed to 3.3 volume.

I used roughly 90 grams of priming sugar for my 2.5 gallon batch. This is according to instructions and what the Northern Brewer Calculator suggests.

It didn't taste bad - a tad sweet though.

 

[PseudoChef]

That's super high for a Tripel. That's why you should use the sugar. And probably even more than one pound (swapping out an equal (gravity-wise) portion of your extract or grain). I would definitely check as time goes on to make sure fermentation doesn't start back up in the bottles.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

1.028 is quite high.

You probably would have got it a lot lower if you followed the instructions. Tripels need that highly fermentable to get dry (i.e. lower final gravity.) Next time use the sugar.


EDIT: Beat me to it, PseudoChef! And yeah, more than a pound would probably do you good.

 

[roxy35]

Any clue what I can expect going forward? Any bombs? Anything I can do to salvage this?

Several sources said to use DME instead of sugar (http://www.highgravitybrew.com/productcart/pc/Brewferm-Triple-214p663.htm), so I'm a little confused.

 

[cervezarara]

How many gallons was this? For 5 gallons, you normally prime with 5oz of sugar or about 8 oz of DME. If you used a full pound, you may have over-primed, and you may have some bottle bombs on your hands. This is particularly true if the fermentation was not complete.

The FG sounds pretty high to me, and it shows only about 60% attenuation. So many factors influence the final gravity of a beer, but I would expect to see FG at 1.020 or below for a Belgian Tripel. Some Belgian yeasts need to be ramped up to the 80's for fermentation to finish.

I would recommend conditioning those bottles in a Rubbermaid container with a lid in case they explode. Check the caps for bulging. After it has conditioned a few weeks, you can check the specific gravity of the carbonated beer to see if it has dropped below 1.028.

 

[roxy35]

This was for 2.5 gallons. I used about 3 ounces to prime per the instructions.


Darn...I have a feeling I may have messed this one up. I guess this is the tell of a newbie.

 

[PseudoChef]

How many gallons was this? For 5 gallons, you normally prime with 5oz of sugar or about 8 oz of DME. If you used a full pound, you may have over-primed, and you may have some bottle bombs on your hands. This is particularly true if the fermentation was not complete.

It was a 2.5 gallon batch, and he used 90 grams of priming sugar.

The pound of DME was for fermentation, not priming.

 

[unionrdr]

I figured a tripple should have an FG around 1.023 or so. That's about where my #3 Burton should've finished,but instead was 1.018,since my OG was a little low too. So tripples should be drier than doubles I take it?

 

[beergolf]

That is too high for a Tripel. What yeast did you use?

Belgian yeasts can sometimes take a long time to get to FG. I would watch them carefully.

 

[roxy35]

i used the kind included in the Brewferm Kit...

Would it be in my interest to dump these bottles back into my fermenter??

 

[beergolf]

I just looked at my brew log and the last 4 Tripels I brewed all had OG's of 1.081-1.072, all finished at 1.006- 1.012..

Even the Dubbels and Dark Strongs finish much lower.

 

[lowtones84]

A lot of Belgian styles use sugar to lighten the body and "dry it out" a bit. Anybody who recommends using DME in the boil/ for fermentation instead of sugar is probably just using common home brewing thought rather than actually considering how Tripels etc. are brewed.

Anyhow, the gravity seems just a touch high, but if it was stable over a few days I wouldn't expect bottle bombs. That's around 60% apparent attenuation, when most tripels are in the mid-upper 80's for attenuation. Wrapping the batch in a heavy blanket or putting all of the bottles in a large rubbermaid tub or something might be a good idea if you're really concerned.

 

[roxy35]

Yikes...i think I'm I'm trouble....


The gravity went unchanged for a whole week so i just assumed it was as good as it was going to get.

 

[roxy35]

I just looked at my brew log and the last 4 Tripels I brewed all had OG's of 1.081-1.072, all finished at 1.006- 1.012..

Even the Dubbels and Dark Strongs finish much lower.

Did you use sugar for this? I guess one reason for my higher fg could be that DME doesn't ferment as well.

 

[dcHokie]

I'm not at all familiar with these no-boil Brewferm kits, but looking over that link it looks like maybe the recipe called for an extra pound of DME as well as a pound of sugar.

 

[roxy35]

Should i warm my chamber to the high 70s-low 80s with these bottles, or just leave at my constant 68?

 

[unionrdr]

I'd leave it at 68F. Slowing the process down slightly might be a good thing.

 

[PseudoChef]

I figured a tripple should have an FG around 1.023 or so. That's about where my #3 Burton should've finished,but instead was 1.018,since my OG was a little low too. So tripples should be drier than doubles I take it?

Per style guidelines (just guidelines, remember), Tripels should be under 1.014 and Dubbels under 1.018. It's all in taste perception, however. Regardless, I would think anything about 1.020 for a Belgian style is too high.

 

[roxy35]

Do you think I'd do more damage by pouring my 25 bottles back into fermenter, maybe adding more yeast?

Or should I just let it ride?

Sorry, total newb. Not sure where to go from here.

 

[unionrdr]

I figured that since their OG is so high,the FG must be higher as well,like Burton's. They must be adding the candi sugar later to help dry it out more to the FG of a pale or something. But higher alcohol & that souring on the back.

 

[PseudoChef]

What is Burton's?

You can add the sugar at any time. There might be a small advantage of adding it while fermentation has already begun, but I've had pretty solid attenuation adding it at boil as well.

 

[unionrdr]

It's a Burton ale brewed in Burton upon Trent,UK. Also Brewed in Sheffield,UK. Gotta add a 2nd Sheffield to the list. Their top ale was a barley wine that took a very long time to mature. My clone was of the #3 Burton ale that was said to have died as a style about 1890.
It had a sweet bite to it that was good,6.8%ABV put it in strong ale category. See my recipes for how I made it,pic in my gallery.
With a couple changes.I think It could be a double...?

 

[PseudoChef]

Now I'm really confused. English-style beers are completely different than Belgian (obviously). Double what? Do you mean Dubbel? You been dippin' into your homebrew stash already today or something?

 

[roxy35]

As of right now, my beer is only around 4%. It is supposed to be 8%.

I need to do something with the rest of my Saturday.

Is it possible for the bottles still to mature and ferment and be SAFE? If I'm going to have many bombs or bad beer, I'll just dump them back out and take my chances.

Does anyone know how much pressure could build up and still be safe? At same time, say the beer WILL reach the 1.018 or so in the bottles. Will the carbonation given off from the whole point drop cause an explosion?

Here's another thought - could I pop the bottles every week or so and replace with new caps to allow the pressure to be released somewhat regularly? Arrgghhh.

 

[unionrdr]

I meant a Belgian dubbel,my bad. It's a bit similar,just change the yeast,add candi sugar,maybe one of those Belgian wild yeast mixes from Wyeast?
And no,HB stash is gone. Drank the last two Burtons last week. I think glass bottles can take something like 3.5 volumes co2. Anybody that knows better correct me if I'm wrong...I never had that problem.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Meh, candi sugar is a mad rip-off. I see no taste difference in the final product when compared to one with just corn sugar. And if you really really want to be a stickler about it you can heat up your corn sugar in some water until it dissolves, squeeze in a little bit of lime juice, and BAM you have candi sugar. I just saved you $5/pound

 

[roxy35]

After doing a ton more reading, I figure it would be suicide to sit back and do nothing.

I have to figure out a way to let this beer finish properly. If I don't, I know I'm going to have a huge mess. I have a couple options as I see it - what do you think?

All options have me raising the temp of my fermentation chamber to 78-80 to kick start things again.

1.) Remove and re-cap bottle weekly to allow pressure to escape

2.) Slightly "uncap" each bottle to allow CO2 to escape (you know when you hear the "hiss" of a properly carbonated bottle but the cap is still on?)...then recap when FG has been reached.

3.) Remove caps, replace with aluminum foil on top to protect but allow CO2 to escape.

I think I will have to use the carbonation drops on whatever I do since I think transferring to spigot with priming sugar is likely too risky.


Time is ticking...

 

[unionrdr]

Maybe jusr crack the caps,then use the capper to re-seal. Foil would just let a lot of the co2 to escape.

 

[roxy35]

Do you think it's possible to reseal the same cap?

 

[unionrdr]

There are members here that claim to do just that from time to time. Since the bell on the capper just pushes the sides of the cap down tight,I can't see why it wouldn't work.

 

[PseudoChef]

Meh, candi sugar is a mad rip-off. I see no taste difference in the final product when compared to one with just corn sugar. And if you really really want to be a stickler about it you can heat up your corn sugar in some water until it dissolves, squeeze in a little bit of lime juice, and BAM you have candi sugar. I just saved you $5/pound

Clear candi syrup, maybe. D or D2? Not a chance.

 

[roxy35]

OK - here is my latest.


I decided to ever-so-slightly "pop" a corner of each cap. To my surprise, I already heard a slight "hiss." If this happened in about 4 hours, imagine what 4 days would be like lol. I tipped several bottles over to check the seal and they "dripped" just slightly.

I'm hoping this will be good enough to allow any CO2 to escape and to avoid building up pressure. I will check one of the bottles in a few days to see what it is. I placed all 25 bottles in a Rubbermaid container in my fermentation chamber and temp is set to 78. We shall see.

Let's say fermentation does kick off again. Does anyone have a suggestion for a FG to be satisfied with? I assume I'll just check the bottle again, looking for a constant FG. However, I want to make sure I can still carbonate this beer. If I wait until it is constant I will have to add priming sugar again to re-carbonate. I've already posted about how I could just add carbonation drops to each beer - so I know that is an option. Any suggestions?

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Clear candi syrup, maybe. D or D2? Not a chance.

Clear yes, not maybe.

Dark, also. Have you never caramelized sugar before? Or made a dark roux? Same concept.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

And to the OP, good luck.

 

[PseudoChef]

Clear yes, not maybe.

Dark, also. Have you never caramelized sugar before? Or made a dark roux? Same concept.

Yep, made tons of batches of candi syrup trying many different things. It's really not the same concept as just "caramelizing" syrup with some citric acid. You really want to drive more Maillards rather than carmelizing.

Here's some interesting reading: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/candy-sugar-right-way-hint-weve-been-doing-wrong-302353/

If you're happy with "caramelizing" your sugar, then good - but to me the flavor isn't anywhere close when trying to replicate something like Westy or such, which derives a majority of its dark coloring and a large portion of the chocolately and dark fruit flavor components from the syrup.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Yep, made tons of batches of candi syrup trying many different things. It's really not the same concept as just "carmelizing" syrup with some citric acid. You really want to drive more Maillards rather than carmelizing.

Here's some interesting reading: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/candy-sugar-right-way-hint-weve-been-doing-wrong-302353/

Good article... but the problem is I don't taste Maillard reactions in D2, just caramel. I may be crazy but couldn't you just get the same effect from making dark invert caramel and doing a 90min hard rolling boil to get the Maillards?

EDIT: Or invert syrup and wort on a side boil. That takes care of the salts the article recipe requires.

 

[roxy35]

Still thinking about my potential bombs - I have another question regarding my FG.

I took this sample (same pic as page 1) after I added 3 ounces corn sugar for priming. Also, sample was at about 66 degrees. Does this change anyone's opinion of the quality of this FG? It's been stalled for a week.

I also used 1lb DME instead of sugar, which should keep the FG a little higher. Remember, it's also been stalled for a week at about 68-70 degrees.

I've placed the bottles in the fermentation chamber at 77 - all bottles have been slightly vented. If the FG hasn't moved in 24 hours, would you say its safe that fermentation is truly finished?

Sorry to a pest...

 

[roxy35]

Update on my progress...


Bottles were slightly uncapped to vent. Fermentation Chamber has been at 79 for 24 hours.

Bottles have formed this little "mini-krausen" in them. This seems like it is a good thing? Thoughts? I don't have a picture but it's like the krausen of a fermenter on a mini-scale. It could just be reacting to the priming sugars, but I hope it's more.

However, I checked the gravity again this morning (krausen was less intense then and only on half the bottles, now it is on all)..still at 1.025 or so. Ugh.

How soon should I see a difference in FG? Also, if FG doesn't drop, does anyone recommend opening each bottle and adding a few grains of yeast? If so, any idea how much? I feel like I'm in uncharted territory here.