Diagnose this weld

[Elfmaze]

Couldn't find a welder to save my life. SO, a friend offered to give it a try. He did a decent job from the outside but the inside is a bit rough. Am i going to have a problem with these welds? Any way to smooth it out?

 

[bentonre]

I'm definitely no expert, but it looks like the inside "sugared" due to not having an inert environment inside the kettle. I would say grind/clean off what you can on the inside and see what it looks like. It is hard to say if you take it down to the kettle surface whether or not there will be any nasty crevices.....
If there are you could always fill them with JB weld....

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Plus one, the outside is good but the inside is Uggg.

Use a dremel with a grinding bit and fill in the voids and pitting with JB Weld Marine then shape smooth with the dremel.

 

[Bobby_M]

If it's liquid tight, it's good enough. The only way to avoid that sugaring is to make an envelope of argon behind the weld or use specific flux to protect the metal from oxygen. It's all boiled anyway. No worries.

 

[springer]

in a boil pot its not a big deal .Just clean it up and use a SS wire brush on it when you clean out you boil residue if your worried about bits of hops and such getting lodged in there.

 

[thantos]

Yep classic case of what we call Sugar, No inert gas to keep the stainless from carbonizing. The proper fix is to cut it out and re-weld with new components while purging the inside. I personally would not use it to boil my wort in as its not sanitary, once SS carbonizes it is basically just that Carbon, which as we no will rust.

There is a product called solar flux that I have used in the past that works ok, but purging with an inert gas is always best.

Here's a link;

http://www.solarflux.com/

Also not sure if people are serious about the JB Weld or not but I would not go that route. JB Weld claims its non toxic but in the same sentence they recommend that it not be consumed !!!

Q: Is J-B Weld toxic?

A: No. J-B Weld is non-toxic. However, we do not recommend consuming the product.

^^^^^^^^From there web site ^^^^^^^^

Just my 2 cents.

 

[mordantly]

nitric acid! this guy needs to learn about argon back gassing. the dimes kinda stutter too. tig is tricky. especially on a radius! i can't tig for schitt unless its a flat surface. technically, this weld is crapp-ola, and would not pass anything. its could very easily fail from the contaminants. but acid etch first to see what happens. otherwise its gotta be cut out.

 

[Yuri_Rage]

It won't fail - there is virtually no stress on it. Also, carbon doesn't rust, iron does. The problem is that sugaring causes iron to precipitate to the surface (I think that's the right terminology), and surface rust will occur. However, it really isn't that big of a problem. The boil will take care of any nasties that find their way into the cracks. The acid etch is a great idea, as is a good scrub with a stainless brush if any corrosion does occur.

Next time, have your buddy back gas the weld. He put a decent, even bead down, and there was obviously some penetration. Flooding the back of the weld with argon would likely have gotten you pretty decent results.

 

[GreenMonti]

It won't fail - there is virtually no stress on it. Also, carbon doesn't rust, iron does. The problem is that sugaring causes iron to precipitate to the surface (I think that's the right terminology), and surface rust will occur. However, it really isn't that big of a problem. The boil will take care of any nasties that find their way into the cracks. The acid etch is a great idea, as is a good scrub with a stainless brush if any corrosion does occur.

Next time, have your buddy back gas the weld. He put a decent, even bead down, and there was obviously some penetration. Flooding the back of the weld with argon would likely have gotten you pretty decent results.

I have to agree with Yuri.

IMO what you have pictured isn't that bad of a weld job. Yes there is sugar on the backside, Oops.......... However, look close and you will see that the sugar is pretty even all the way around. That's constant heat controll heck, look at the heat affected ring. IMO, he knows pretty much what he is looking at. I would just about bet that the outside would have looked much more nice had there been gas on the backside. The weld puddle was mixing in the crap from the back side making it more tough to weld. Next time purge it.

I would use a carbide and take your time grinding the sugar out of there. If you can get the acid, great. It will help, but I wouldn't stress over it.

 

[Dog House Brew]

If it's liquid tight, it's good enough. The only way to avoid that sugaring is to make an envelope of argon behind the weld or use specific flux to protect the metal from oxygen. It's all boiled anyway. No worries.

Bobby is correct. May not be perfect, but no problems. My old kettle looked just like this and never had a problem

 

[stevehaun]

Fire it up and make some beer!

 

[kladue]

If you are not familiar with back gassing here is a quick and dirty trick, take a 6"-8" square of aluminum foil and tape it over the inside of the keg, equally spaced around the opening. Push down on the foil from the outside gently to get about 1" clearance from keg wall. Roll keg so opening is on top and run torch purge gas in opening for about 30 seconds. Tack up the weld and hit the opening with purge gas again. As you weld the heat expands the trapped purge gas and will usually not generate massive sugaring on the back side. if you pause after every 30 seconds and hit the opening with purge gas from the torch you might get a fairly clean inside surface. The keg opening has to be on top to trap the argon purge, rolling the keg on the side for easier access during welding lets the purge gas out.

 

[BargainFittings]

kladue,

Would using a cone of aluminum around the fitting work? That way you don't have purge entire airspace in the keg.

I really need to try my hand at tig welding.

 

[Dog House Brew]

kladue,

Would using a cone of aluminum around the fitting work? That way you don't have purge entire airspace in the keg.

I really need to try my hand at tig welding.

You can use what ever to make the pocket. I have a stainless cup someone welded a 1/4" coupling in. I will put tape around it to seal it up. I've put a Y and a needle valve on my gas line. This keeps constant gas purging the back of the weld. If not put on the tape run the gas and insert a plug in the coupling, but constant gas is the way to go.

 

[Blane]

Bobby is correct. May not be perfect, but no problems. My old kettle looked just like this and never had a problem

I agree. It took me a while to get over it but now I just chalk it up to experience. The welder I used did wonderful work with aluminum in aircraft but sucked with stainless.

Blane

 

[v2comp]

why not get him to just grind it off and weld the inside too?

 

[Dog House Brew]

I agree. It took me a while to get over it but now I just chalk it up to experience. The welder I used did wonderful work with aluminum in aircraft but sucked with stainless.

Blane

If he was great with aluminum he will be fine with stainless. I think what happens, myself included, I didn't say purge it. Welders don't know what brewers need. They are used to puting two pieces together and welding it up. People getting thigs welded need to know what to ask for. Most shops dont have purge lines on their tanks. Anyway, you are correct about education. I still hate looking into that kettle.

 

[kladue]

All you need for a purge dam on the inside is something non flammable, the radiant heat from the weld area ignites paper and plastic. The aluminum foil is flexible and cheap, just need enough volume that will hold the argon purge and release it through opening as weld area warms up. When I hand TIG pipe and tubing I use masking tape over the joint to hold the purge gas on the inside, it burns off ahead of the weld as you go.

 

[Blane]

If he was great with aluminum he will be fine with stainless. I think what happens, myself included, I didn't say purge it. Welders don't know what brewers need. They are used to puting two pieces together and welding it up. People getting thigs welded need to know what to ask for. Most shops dont have purge lines on their tanks. Anyway, you are correct about education. I still hate looking into that kettle.

You're absolutely right. I didn't specifically ask him to purge it. All I can say is is that it doesn't leak.

On a similar note. I was taking a welding class at the community college earlier this year and learned to stick and mig. I had one evening of TIGing when my wife had an unscheduled dismount off of a horse and shattered her femur. Needless to say I had to drop the class to take care of her and didn't finish the TIG section. I plan to retake the class next spring with the hopes of learning how to work on my own kegs. I don't believe I'll ever be as good as Greenmonti though.

Blane

 

[Gremlyn]

Also not sure if people are serious about the JB Weld or not but I would not go that route. JB Weld claims its non toxic but in the same sentence they recommend that it not be consumed !!!

Q: Is J-B Weld toxic?

A: No. J-B Weld is non-toxic. However, we do not recommend consuming the product.

^^^^^^^^From there web site ^^^^^^^^

Just my 2 cents.

OK, I'll bite... they just don't want you to eat JB Weld. They didn't say not to consume what has touched the product, just not the product itself. I have JB Weld on my heatstick and I haven't grown an extra arm or anything

 

[samc]

OK, I'll bite... they just don't want you to eat JB Weld. They didn't say not to consume what has touched the product, just not the product itself. I have JB Weld on my heatstick and I haven't grown an extra arm or anything

It takes several years to grow an extra arm, keep checking for the bud to sprout. Maybe you will get lucky and grow some other appendage.

LOL

 

[thantos]

It takes several years to grow an extra arm, keep checking for the bud to sprout. Maybe you will get lucky and grow some other appendage.

LOL

Exactly !!! Just because they say it is non toxic, does not mean it is a "Food Grade" product. Constant exposure to heat and liquid will have this product leaching into what ever is being made, and thus the consumption begins!