Diacetyl Sensitivity

[prrriiide]

I think I'm aiming this question more at BJCP judges and folks that have been brewing for a long time...

I think I have developed a sensitivity to diacetyl. I am tasting butter bombs more and more often in both my beers and in commercial beers. In my beers, I have had other brewers - who's palates I trust and are certified judges - taste it, and they aren't getting much if any. I also am assuming that any regional brewery - Sweetwater, Highland, SN, Bell's - has a sensory panel that would 86 a batch with detectable diacetyl in it. Yet, I have recently had samples from all of those breweries that I didn't particularly like because of the diacetyl flavor. Right now, I'm drinking a Catawba Hopness Monster IPA that tastes like a bucket of movie popcorn to me. My wife tried it and said she gets a hint of butter at the finish that she wouldn't have even noticed if I hadn't said something.

So here's my question: is there a way to de-sensitize my palate?

This problem has only arisen over the last 4-6 months, and isn't constant. I think I'm getting it with beers that have diacetyl amounts right at the threshold of detectibility.

I do have a known and definite sensitivity to raisins. When I took my BJCP course, I tasted raisins in a lot of beers that nobody else tasted it. I get a mouthful of raisin from Fuller's ESB. Special B malt makes beers almost undrinkable for me. So I know that palate sensitivities already exist for me. But has anyone ever heard of developing a sensitivity as opposed to a natural sensitivity I was born with? I have always hated raisins, now I know it's because they overwhelm my palate.

So what can I do to fix this? This is NOT a desirable problem for a brewer to have!

 

[jekeane]

I am sure people are more or less sensitive to different flavors. I notice Phenolics more readily than some other flavors for instance.

A people can train their palate to a degree I assume one can become more perceptive to certain flavors. Im not sure if there is a chemical / receptor change happening on peoples tounges though.

I am a strong believer in the power of suggestion when it comes to tasting and wonder if you are just telling yourself that any hint of butter is massive. I judged a flight of english brown ales once with a guy who every beer would say out loud something about how much butter was in a beer and I was unable to discern from the cara malts and what he was perceiving as butter.
I wound up having to call in a third judge and ask him to refrain from talking while judging to get through the flight. We didn't tell the 3rd why he was coming in for the beer and after neither I or the new judge got butter and the other judge was just positive it was a butter bomb.

I would stop looking for butter in a beer on initial tasting and ask whether or not you are perceiving a crystal malt as butter. As I tend to believe we create a lot of our own flavor intensities. It could be you are just a sensitive fellow though.

 

[Zimm9]

Could it be a medication you're taking?

 

[dmtaylor]

You are likely a supertaster, either that or yes you are just naturally sensitive to certain flavors. It's not as rare an issue as you think. Probably a good 5-10% of the population is very sensitive to certain tastes. Diacetyl is a common one that will turn off some judges on most beers.

If you are a judge, you will need to learn to ignore the lowest levels of diacetyl that most other people cannot taste, and tone down any comments in this regard. Same with raisins. Recognize that yes, you truly are overly sensitive, it's a real thing, and tone down any comments in this regard.

In your own homebrews, of course you might want to take special precautions to perform a diacetyl rest on every beer and avoid use of certain crystal malts, especially the English versions and Special B. I mean, I assume you want to enjoy your own beers, and everyone else be damned. If you ever brew for other people and not for yourself, then you can use more "normal" ingredients only in those cases!?

This goes without saying, but ultimately, what you choose to drink and not to drink on a personal level is up to personal preference, just like for anyone. If a certain brand turns you off, you probably won't want to drink it anymore. You'll have to learn by experience which brands turn you off. But also keep in mind not to declare anything "it's crap!" to anyone besides yourself if they are not so sensitive. You'll have to pull back on your initial reactions when speaking to others.

I feel for you, man. I'm SO glad I'm a so-called "non-taster", which is the opposite -- everything tastes just great to me due to my lack of sensitivity.

As a BJCP judge and the education and experience that goes with it, I have indeed trained my palate and have become much more sensitive to diacetyl, DMS, and oxidation, etc. I'm BJCP Certified and have been an avid homebrewer since 1999. But I also remember before I became a judge, everything tasted so great and I actually enjoyed diacetyl and skunk and everything else. The so-called "off-flavors" as defined by BJCP aren't necessarily "bad" to everyone just because the experts say so! Personal preferences are everywhere! Though nowadays, now that I'm trained to seek these things out, I do turn my nose up a bit more often at a diacetyl bomb. I've been assimilated!

It's not medication, and you haven't become more naturally sensitive over time either. You've just become more educated, and now, if you allow it, you too are being assimilated. Forget the BJCP for a second, and ask yourself: Do you truly, deep down in your soul, dislike a bit of diacetyl, or is your more recent training dictating to you that you should dislike it? Nothing wrong with a little bit of diacetyl in my humble opinion, sensitivity or not, as long as it isn't a bomb, and even then, eye of the beer holder. You might just have to learn to ignore a little of it so you can enjoy more beers, unless you truly detest it in which case, I'm really sorry man.

Cheers.

 

[Miraculix]

Have you tried tasting one of your butterbombs against a "real" butterbomb that also other people perceive as butterbomb?

 

[BrewerBrad82]

I too am crazy sensitive to diacetyl, I can pick it out from a mile away.

I do sometimes find it in commercial beers, but for the most part breweries have great sensory panels that will discard any beer with diacetly present. The last time I had an absolute diacetly bomb was at a pretty prominent brewery in Denver, it was a double IPA. I hate to be that guy, but I sent it back and actually alerted the GM of the taproom. He tasted it, and said that there might be some diacetly present and then took it off tap.

To avoid any diacetly issues, be sure to pitch a proper amount of healthy yeast (I nearly always make a starter just to make sure the yeast are up to the task), oxygenate the wort well - I target ~10 ppm DO (I have found that pure oxygen through a diffusion stone at a flow rate of 1 liter/min for 20 seconds is pretty perfect as verified by a DO meter), and allow the newly fermented beer to sit on the yeast cake for a few days (4-5) after krausen drops. When all of these things are done, I cannot detect any diacetyl in my homebrews.

 

[prrriiide]

Thanks for the thoughts, guys.

I hope I can learn to tamp down the reaction...it's VERY strong, to the point that some of my favorite beers are no longer my favorites. I also have the same problem with Mosaic hops. There's a flavor compound that is highly pronounced in them that isn't present (or far less so) than other hops. Even at a modest hopping rate, all I taste are the Mosaics. Which is sad, because I think I might really other otherwise enjoy beers made with those hops.

FWIW...I don't typically do a diacetyl rest, but will likely start. I don't oxygenate my wort, but I aerate the hell out of it. I always do big starters, even with dry yeast, and usually leave it on the yeast cake for about 10 days to 2 weeks.

I'm really not looking for butter in the beer, but through habit, I always smell the beer before I drink. That's where I start picking it up is in the aroma, and then it follows through on the palate.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I have the same issue. There's a local brewery that's internationally renowned that has released some IPAs that I thought were chalk full of diacetyl. Most of my friends don't taste it or will notice it when I point it out.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Diacetyl is one of those compounds where sensitivity variance is massive. Some are incredibly sensitive and despise it as a result.

Others are completely blind to it at any concentration.

The rest of us somewhere in between. I'm not entirely blind to it, but my sensitivity is low, and it's taken serious training and practice to identify it. Typically when present at anything but an extreme level it tastes very pleasant to me.

I have your issue with pyrazines- i avoid almost all coffee beers and will not use certain maltsters roasted malts as they taste so heavily like jalapeño (sans heat of course) to me. I have to temper my scoresheet comments when judging dark beers for that reason.

 

[brick_haus]

I'm VERY sensitive to oxidation! I always have a home brewed 1.080/1.010 IIPA on tap. If somehow I make a mistake and cause a little exposure to air during kegging and it gets slightly oxidized, I would pitch it in the barranca!! Luckily, my wife cant taste the off flavor so she chuggs it down!!!
My point is that I can relate to you and your sensitivity!!