Diacetyl or tart ? (first brew)

[Swaroga]

I finnaly got to try my first brew. It's a brown colored double IPA like.
Used US-05. 2 weeks fermenting and 2 weeks secondary. Now it is 2 weeks after bottling.

The head is great. The carbonation is weak. The taste is red fruits and tart. But I worry that the tart notes are a bit going into buttery too much. Possible diacetyl ?

Is the beer too young ? Will the buttery flavor go away after a long rest ? Or maybe I'm panicking since the beer tastes pretty well overall and the buttery, tart like background is in fact coping well with the fruity character.

 

[sptaylor70]

It would be unusual for US-05 to give noticeable diacetyl. Posting the recipe would be helpful, though.

 

[monsteroyd]

Butter is diacetyl. I usually carb and condition for twice that long (4 weeks), of course I don't secondary, so my beer stays on my yeast to help clean up diacetyl. Put it back to condition for a couple of weeks more and then try it. Sour is lactic acid usually, a sign of infection.

Good luck
Monty

 

[Swaroga]

30l
OG - 1,068 FG - 1,016
6kg of liquid amber (Muntons)
500gr - light spray malt
500gr - Cara Crystal grains
Over 500gr of hops during boil (Magnum, Willemette, Cascade, Simcoe)
100gr of (Magnum/Cascade) during the promary fermentation
100gr of (Simcoe) during the secondary.

I didn't chill the wort quickly. It took over couple of hours before I could pitch it with the yeast.
During the primary and secondary there was very little oxidation opportunity since I didn't open it too often.
I think there was a lot of air contact during bottling.... I don't know. It wasn't perfect. But during all the steps I over sanitized everything I thought would be close to the beer.

 

[Swaroga]

Butter is diacetyl. I usually carb and condition for twice that long (4 weeks), of course I don't secondary, so my beer stays on my yeast to help clean up diacetyl. Put it back to condition for a couple of weeks more and then try it. Sour is lactic acid usually, a sign of infection.

Good luck
Monty

So should I keep the beer in the primary for over 2 weeks to avoid the possible diacetyl off flavors ?

 

[monsteroyd]

No. I am just saying that I don't do a secondary, leave my beer on my yeast for 3 weeks, then bottle and give it 4 weeks to carb and condition before drinking. Just take the bottles out of the frig, let them warm top room temp and then let them sit for 2 more weeks then try it. It might make a big difference. I never did a secondary after hearing Charlie Bamforth talk about diacetyl and how the yeast will clean it up.

Monty

 

[Swaroga]

Good tip there mate.

I left the bottles outside where the temperatures aren't warm. Certeinly not in the night. Maybe I should condition them inside the apartment.

 

[showcow]

Did you make a starter, and if so, how big? 30L batch with a high OG needs quite a lot of yeast.

Yeast will be stressed when you under pitch, and also if you don't aerate the wort before pitching. Leave the beer on the yeast cake in primary for all of fermentation. Very few styles benefit from secondary. Dry hopping can also be done in primary. Leaving it on the yeast cake in primary leaves more yeast to clean up diacetyl, acetaldehyde (green apple, which I believe is your "tart" taste) and other off flavors. It also clears more quickly because you redistribute everything when you transfer to secondary.

Last question, what was your ferm temp?

Edit: saw you used us-05. For big beers (and 30L especially!) use two packets.

 

[Swaroga]

I used 3 from Fermentis. I pitched it straight without a starter.

I did so because it was suppose to be a 40l batch. After the boil I didn't add any more water to it .... Like I said it is my first brew.

The "tart" taste is fine. It's what I taste in most of double IPAs. There is no "green apple" like off flavor. Only butter which seams a bit off.

You pointed some very important things though. I struggle with my Belgian Saison since I under pitched it. I worry it might go bad.

Anyway the temperature was around 18C.

 

[BigFloyd]

It would be unusual for US-05 to give noticeable diacetyl. Posting the recipe would be helpful, though.

Actually, it can.

Fermented cool throughout the process and never stepped up to a higher temp to finish, Chico strain (US-05, BRY-97, 001 and 1056) can kick off enough alpha acetolactate (diacetyl precursor) to be noticeable in the final product.

To the OP, your DIPA is still not ready for prime time. Give it another 2 weeks in the 70-75*F range. The bad news is that, if you have diacetyl, the time to get it reduced by the yeast was in the primary (skip the secondary next time), not the bottles.

 

[showcow]

Did you rehydrate those 3 packs? Not rehydrating can cause you to lose ~ 50% of cells right when you pitch. If they are pitched dry into wort, the composition can rupture cell walls, killing them. Another possibility I guess.

 

[Swaroga]

I didn't rehydrate it. I will give it a try next time.

I hope the bottle conditioning it for another 2 weeks in room temperature will help something. This is the last thing I can do anyway.

Next batch I'm skipping the secondary and bottle condition it in room temperature from the start.
I have a Belgian ale in primary for over 2 weeks now. How long should I keep it in there before bottling ? Another week or 2 ?

 

[monsteroyd]

My rule is 3 weeks fermenter, 4 weeks bottled, then refrigerate and drink.

Monty

 

[Swaroga]

I'm sampling the Belgian ale. Seams there is a bit of diacetyl there too. I think the fermentor is a bit cold. Will warming up and one weak be enough for the yeast to clear this flavor ?

For further infos :

If the diacetyl taste wear off from the fermenting beer. What is the risk it comes back ?

 

[showcow]

I'm sampling the Belgian ale. Seams there is a bit of diacetyl there too. I think the fermentor is a bit cold. Will warming up and one weak be enough for the yeast to clear this flavor ?

For further infos :

If the diacetyl taste wear off from the fermenting beer. What is the risk it comes back ?

Warming will help with diacetyl reduction.

Since diacetyl is created by actively fermenting yeast, once it's gone, it's gone.

 

[Swaroga]

Warming will help with diacetyl reduction.

Since diacetyl is created by actively fermenting yeast, once it's gone, it's gone.

I'm sorry to re-ask the same question in a different manner. I'm a slow thinker.

It means that if the diacetyl taste wear off then I can easly continue with the secondary if I want to brighten and dry hop the beer again ?

So I guess I will be tasting the beer till the buttery flavor wears off then either bottling or secondary wright ?