DFH 120 minute clone

[scottland]

Exciting day today! Jsmith traded a bottle of his 120 clone for mine, and another HBT member was kind enough to trade a bottle of real Dogfish head 120 for my clone. So I got to compare three 120 minutes side by side by side.

Before I talk about the differences: All three were extremely close. Any big differences were masked by the big complex flavors of this beer.

1. Jsmiths: 19.3% ABV: Probably the maltiest of the three, although they are all malty. Some hop character comes through in the nose, but I get more malt.(we're really splitting hairs here) Taste is dead on: that '120' character. The beer is still, no carbonation, probably the only noticeable difference.

2. Mine: 21.1% ABV: A little less malt in the nose, and a little more hop, slightly carbonated, but not to the extent of the DFH example. A little more bitter in the finish, same 120 character.

3. DFH: 15-20% ABV (i'm thinking it's closer to 15%): More hop in the nose than mine, even less malt. Much more carbonation, bitterness in the finish is about the same as mine.

Color was very close between all three, as well as clarity. Honestly, the biggest difference was carbonation. DFH being the most, mine having some,and J's being still. DFH's being the hoppiest I probably attribute to the lower ABV. 4-6% difference is big, and that extra alcohol will cover the hop aroma quite a bit. Couple pictures: Dogfish on the left, mine in the middle, and Jsmith on the right. Second picture is a full snifter of my nuclear penguin =)

 

[bottlebomber]

Show off looks great man! Umm so did you end up drinking 36 ounces of 120 in the same night?

 

[Jsmith82]

3 120's even between 2 people, kudos sir! I haven't gotten my hands on an actual 120 in over a year so I'm glad to hear the close comparison (DFH doesn't distribute too or around St. Louis, Chicago as far as I know is the closest DFH beer run location to me). Not positive but I'm willing to bet the extra malt on mine would probably come from the higher FG and maybe the fact I also used some DME to ensure my brewhouse efficiency was high. All in all, great notes!

I've ordered my hops for my next 120 however I'm totally changing it up, amarillo + simcoe + centennial, dumping the warrior. Almost double the amount of hops. I also plan on finishing out with a lower FG and a lower ABV. I'll start a new topic when I actually brew it.

The pinguin resides in my fridge, this weekend is looking up

 

[donjonson]

So these taste good enough to drink this soon? Its only been about 3 months since you brewed it. I was under the impression that this had to age for a year or so before it was good.

 

[scottland]

Show off looks great man! Umm so did you end up drinking 36 ounces of 120 in the same night?

I had help =)

Donjohnson: All three were fairly fresh. DFH was the freshest, mine was brewed in late July, and I think J's was brewed in March. They all tasted rather good too, nine had a sharp harsh, at least not more than you would expect from a 20% ABV beer. I am aging 36 of these though. I gave a good number out, had a couple myself, and the rest I'm hanging on to for a long time

I've ordered my hops for my next 120 however I'm totally changing it up, amarillo + simcoe + centennial, dumping the warrior. Almost double the amount of hops. I also plan on finishing out with a lower FG and a lower ABV. I'll start a new topic when I actually brew it.

That'll be really good, sounds close to what I'm planning. looking forward to the results

 

[Jsmith82]

I popped open my Nuclear Pinguin last night, great beer. I shared it with my buddy who assisted when I brewed my 120 and we both agree the hops came through very well in your clone, especially the nose.

That said, this beer is a beast! Big body, heavy on the pallet, all and all a fantastic clone, job well done!

I'm off to find the tylenol.

 

[beerman0001]

How many volumes of c02 do you guys think the original is at?

 

[scottland]

How many volumes of c02 do you guys think the original is at?

More than I had thought, but still on the low side. I'd guess about like 1.7-1.9 or so. I carbed mine to about 1.2-1.3, and it was noticeably lower.

 

[beerman0001]

"3. DFH: 15-20% ABV (i'm thinking it's closer to 15%): More hop in the nose than mine, even less malt. Much more carbonation, bitterness in the finish is about the same as mine."

So do you feel that the more nose was due to higher carbonation?
Also both the 60 and 90 clones i have done use the thomas faucet amber malt. Do you think 1.5# instead of the victory and crystal would work?

 

[cdubbaya]

With such a simple grain bill, is it possible to brew this with malt extract? Or is it a silly question for such a complex beer?

I've started kegging most of my beers, so I've got a ton of fresh bottles laying around. I've also got the itch to brew a strong beer that I can sit on for a few years, so this seems like fun.

BTW - Love the wax cap idea, nice touch for a beer that's worth all the work!

 

[scottland]

So do you feel that the more nose was due to higher carbonation?
Also both the 60 and 90 clones i have done use the thomas faucet amber malt. Do you think 1.5# instead of the victory and crystal would work?

Amber malt: Yes. that would be even closer to the real thing. The victory/crystal works fine because it's such a small percentage of the final product. With a beer this intense, the subtle differences get lost.

Hop aroma: I'm not sure. I think a little more carbonation would have helped, but I don't think it would have made a huge difference. I think the ABV was what made the big change.

With such a simple grain bill, is it possible to brew this with malt extract? Or is it a silly question for such a complex beer?

The only challenge is, it would be very hard to get this beer to attenuate enough. Unless you know of some extract that attenuates very well. When I brewed it all-grain, I mashed the grains at a very low temp (147*) because that produces a more fermentable wort. With extract, maltsters usually shoot for the middle of the road in terms of fermentability, so you'd probably end up with a very sweet final product. Much like Sean Paxton did, or they did on brewmasters.

BTW - Love the wax cap idea, nice touch for a beer that's worth all the work!

Thanks, I appreciate it. It was pretty fun to do. I'll definitely do it again on other big beers.

 

[beerman0001]

Thanks for the info. Two weeks away and then the fun begins.

 

[scottland]

Thanks for the info. Two weeks away and then the fun begins.

Good luck man, it's a ton of work, but looking back on it (now that I'm not having to feed a fermenter twice a day) it was a lot of fun.

Build up some huge pitches of yeast, and it should be pretty easy from there.

 

[Jsmith82]

Still waiting on my hops to arrive. The Simcoe was in stock but the Amarillo wasn't so I seconded for Citra, third choice Centennial. Been waiting forever, this is ridiculous!! I have a week off at the end of the month, I was trying to plan brewing my next 120-ish concoction around that time frame so I could easily manage the additions.

They better get my hops in. If they don't, by golly I'm just going to !@#$ing wait some more! lol

 

[scottland]

I think you could pull this beer off with any higher-alpha citrus hop. Centennial, Citra, CTZ, etc.

But if none of those are in stock, ya, you're kind of sol.

 

[bottlebomber]

This beer is going to cause me to buy a simple keg set up... I have big kegging plans down the road, but I just don't see a way you could bottle condition this.

 

[scottland]

This beer is going to cause me to buy a simple keg set up... I have big kegging plans down the road, but I just don't see a way you could bottle condition this.

Ya, I don't see how it would be feasible.

 

[Jsmith82]

This beer is going to cause me to buy a simple keg set up... I have big kegging plans down the road, but I just don't see a way you could bottle condition this.

This is the reason I'm not raising my next batch into the 20% range, more carbonation and all around a better tasting end product, I want 15% max.

On a good note, I called my supplier, they have my Simcoe and were able to get my Amarillo from another supplier which should arrive early next week so it looks like we're 120 ahoy for the last week of the month.

Hopefully...

 

[bottlebomber]

This is the reason I'm not raising my next batch into the 20% range, more carbonation and all around a better tasting end product, I want 15% max.

You think you could still bottle condition at 15%?

 

[scottland]

I think at that point: yes.

I think you'll have a better tasting beer at a lower ABV too. At 18%+ the alcohol just overwhelms everything else.

I'm still planning a 15% Citra/Sicmoe/Amarillo version sometime in 2012.

 

[Jsmith82]

You think you could still bottle condition at 15%?

Yes, not that I'll get a ton from it but I had absolutely zilch carbonation with my original 120 batch. Taste and everything else right on the mark, color was good, etc, just the missing bubblies.. I feel with 15% I could get a suitable amount, enough to add to the enjoyment - also as Scottland pointed out, the alcohol isn't very present when you pop one of the 20%'ers open fresh out of the fridge and pour it however 5 minutes in a pint glass at room temp, those alcohol esters and tastes are quick to come say hello.

 

[Embracethefunk]

I did the Paxton version back in 2009
Beer Forum • View topic - We did a Dogfish 120 clone

Most of the first 6 gallons was either bottled or consumed off draft. I;m bringing the remaining keg to a Winter Ale fest tomorrow and running it through my randall filled with Citra hops!
I did taste some last night, its probably been 6 months since my last tasting of this keg, its still a beast but has really really mellowed out. Incredible after dinner beer

 

[scottland]

Most of the first 6 gallons was either bottled or consumed off draft. I;m bringing the remaining keg to a Winter Ale fest tomorrow and running it through my randall filled with Citra hops!

That sounds good. I've got about 30 bottles left of mine. I'm planning to hold onto them for a good number of years to see how it ages.

 

[beerman0001]

If my numbers are right you hit 80% Efficiency? Would you still start at 1.098 from the grain or would it be worth bumping that up a few points?

 

[scottland]

If my numbers are right you hit 80% Efficiency? Would you still start at 1.098 from the grain or would it be worth bumping that up a few points?

120 minute boil. I get like 68-70% with beers this high gravity with a 60 min boil, but with a longer boil you can sparge more and boil longer.

I'd shoot to come in around 1.100 or so from the grain. I don't think it'll be a big deal either way.

 

[bottlebomber]

I wonder how dry you could really get this... even if you had let off on the sugars, do you think it could have gotten down into the teens?

 

[beerman0001]

Im thinking 20# 2row and 1.5# thomas amber 8.5 gal boil end with 5.5. Does that sound bout right?

 

[scottland]

I wonder how dry you could really get this... even if you had let off on the sugars, do you think it could have gotten down into the teens?

Definitely.

Im thinking 20# 2row and 1.5# thomas amber 8.5 gal boil end with 5.5. Does that sound bout right?

I normally get 82% efficiency with my 1.050 beers. If you get less than that, yes, I would use more grain.

 

[pennisim]

I have a 120minute-ish beer going right now. How are you measuring the gravity of an actively fermenting beer? The krausen/bubbles/yeast make it very hard to get even an estimate. I don't want this beer to end up way too sweet with the yeast dieing off early. My thoughts are to maybe pour the wort to a pitcher, pour off krausen/bubbles, then take a reading and add sugar, then pour back.
Thanks!

 

[Jsmith82]

I have a 120minute-ish beer going right now. How are you measuring the gravity of an actively fermenting beer? The krausen/bubbles/yeast make it very hard to get even an estimate. I don't want this beer to end up way too sweet with the yeast dieing off early. My thoughts are to maybe pour the wort to a pitcher, pour off krausen/bubbles, then take a reading and add sugar, then pour back.
Thanks!

The 120 is brought up to the high level of alcohol through sugar additions in decocted wort meaning you take a couple cups from the fermenter, add your sugars and hops, then pour it back in. With that decoction you can take a current gravity reading. I used beersmith to figure my projected ABV by preplanning first where I wanted the beer to finish and seperating the dextrose amount needed into the additions, and adding the sugar additions into the recipe as I added them into the beer itself IE if I added 8oz of sugar that morning, I'd boot up my beersmith 120 recipe and add 8oz of sugar to the fermentables giving me an idea or where I was currently at and where I was heading.

As far as finishing to sweet, that's really easy to do and just requires your attention to gravity detail to avoid it - once it visually by gravity number starts to slow down fermentation, slow the additions or even stop them and just feed some nutrient once or twice - management is definitely the key, well... and extremely tough being we're all at the mercy of the yeast.

Delicious hoppy rocket fuel!