Determing mash temp if none is given?

[Woodbrews]

I'm trying a recipe I haven't tried before and it doesn't specify a mash temperature. Rather, to be more precise, I've seen conflicting information about both mash temps and mash times in the various recipes I've seen posted for this Fat Head Head Hunter clone.

Given the following grain bill, and knowing that the finished product has an alcohol content of 7.5%, is there any way to determine the ideal mash temp and duration?

Grain Bill:
Briess 2-Row - 6 lbs. 2 oz.
Maris Otter - 3 lbs. 4 oz.
Weyerman Cara-Hell - 1 lbs. 4 oz.
Briess Torrified Wheat - .8 oz.
Caramel Pils - .8 oz.
Malto Dextrin - 8 oz.

Or more generically, how does one determine the ideal mash temperature for a given grain bill?

Thanks!

 

[stpug]

You do your best job balancing the attenuation level you need from your yeast with the gravity of the beer. This definitely requires knowing the attenuation range of yeast strain, and usually requires a working knowledge of the strain in question and how it performs in YOUR brewhouse. There will be some effects on body (mostly) and residual sweetness (a tiny little bit) depending on if you mash high or low. If you find you're having to mash extraordinarily high or low to get your FG/ABV then you need to rework your grainbill

About your grainbill:
-0.8 ounces of torrified wheat is inconsequential (leave it out, IMO)
-0.8 ounces of caramel pils is also inconsequential (leave it out, IMO), especially since your already using malto dextrin (same thing)
---Even if you're talking about franco-belges caramel pilsner malt, it's still such a minute amount it'll be inconsequential.

What yeast are you using? What's the estimated OG of your wort? With that you can begin to dial down the mash temperature that should get you around your desired FG to achieve your 7.5% ABV beer.

 

[LLBeanJ]

The mash temp will depend on other factors, such as what FG are you going for and what yeast are you using.

If you have brewing software, you can input the recipe and the adjust up or down the 2-row so that it comes in around 1.070-1.075 OG based on your system's efficiency. Then add your yeast to the recipe. Since the brew is an IPA, I'd assume you want it to finish in the 1.008-1.010 range, so you tweak your mash temp as needed to achieve the amount of attenuation that will get you to that FG.

Update: According to Fat Head's, this brew uses American Ale yeast (WLP001, W1065, or US-05), starts at 17.0 Plato, and finishes at 3.4 Plato. With that info and some brewing software, it should be relatively easy to come up with a mash temp.

 

[EJay]

Or more generically, how does one determine the ideal mash temperature for a given grain bill?

Thanks!

I'm no expert, but I'd think an hour at 153F is a safe bet when it isn't spelled out in the recipe.

You could plug all this into something like beersmith and back into your OG, and play with mash temp numbers to get the FG that yields the ABV you're looking for.

 

[Yooper]

I think of HeadHunter as clean and dry. I'm surprised that maltodextrine would even be considered in the recipe due to that along with over two pounds of crystal malt. To use that much crystal malt, plus carapils, plus maltodextrine makes me think that this beer will be super-thick. I'm surprised at the overabundance of crystal malt, and the lack of simple sugars to help thin the body.

I would normally mash a beer like Head Hunter at 150, but I also would never use maltodextrine in it so I really have no idea what the recipe author had in mind.

Usually, you want an IPA to be quaffable, but adding that much crystal malt and the maltodextine has me flummoxed.

 

[Pappers_]

Mash temperature affects the fermentability of the wort. So, brewers will often base the mash temperature on the body of the beer they are intending to make. Roughly, 148 F - 151 for light bodied, 152 - 155 for medium bodied, 156 - 158 for full bodied.

 

[Woodbrews]

Thanks, guys, for the quick responses. I have a typo on the wheat and pils -- it should 8 oz. of each (1/2 lb.). Total grain bill is 12 1/2 lbs. of fermentables.

Target OG is 1.068 and FG is 1.014.

Yeast is White Labs WLP001.

 

[LLBeanJ]

I agree with Yooper regarding the maltodextrin. The recipe has Cara-Pils/dextrin, so not sure why it would have maltodextrine in it as well.

So, putting this into BeerSmith, same grain bill as above, less the maltodextrine, it comes to 1.068 OG based on 80% efficiency. Using WL001, you would mash at 151° to finish at 1.014.

 

[Woodbrews]

Thanks again. I'm not entirely sure why the malto-dextrin is in the recipe in the first place. I have Beersmith, but I don't have much experience with it yet. I tried to replicate what LLBeanJ did, but I'm not sure of the equivalent of Cara-Hell to use in the recipe builder?

 

[paperairplane]

Let's make this easy - 150 for an hour. Works for most beers just fine.

 

[LLBeanJ]

I tried to replicate what LLBeanJ did, but I'm not sure of the equivalent of Cara-Hell to use in the recipe builder?

I actually have Cara-Hell in my BS grain database. I prolly still have the download from Weyermann with all their grain profiles. Let me see if I can find it.

Update: File attached

View attachment Weyermann.bsmx

 

[ColbyJack]

Sorry to hijack-- but how does this apply to mash out? Does everybody mash out? Does mash out at say 172 mess with the flavor profile that your previous mash step acquired?

 

[Yooper]

Sorry to hijack-- but how does this apply to mash out? Does everybody mash out? Does mash out at say 172 mess with the flavor profile that your previous mash step acquired?

No. No. No. To all three questions, in that order.

Mashing out is usually done by those who continuous (fly) sparge since the wort may sit an hour during the sparging. This "locks in" the profile of the wort, and denatures the enzymes so they can't continue to break up the sugars in the wort to more simple sugars.

It's not normally done by those who BIAB or those who batch sparge.

I mean, they could do it, but they'd have no reason to unless they want to for some particular reason, like not enough room on the MLT for the sparge water in one round. Some do it because a book told them to, and I guess that's a reason as well, but it's certainly not needed.

 

[ColbyJack]

Thanks Yoop! The original thread from the Aussies says we should mash out to convert sugars. I'm no biologist, nor a physicist. I'm in the garage making beer. I appreciate your experience and input.

 

[smccarter]

I'm trying a recipe I haven't tried before and it doesn't specify a mash temperature. Rather, to be more precise, I've seen conflicting information about both mash temps and mash times in the various recipes I've seen posted for this Fat Head Head Hunter clone.

Given the following grain bill, and knowing that the finished product has an alcohol content of 7.5%, is there any way to determine the ideal mash temp and duration?

Grain Bill:
Briess 2-Row - 6 lbs. 2 oz.
Maris Otter - 3 lbs. 4 oz.
Weyerman Cara-Hell - 1 lbs. 4 oz.
Briess Torrified Wheat - .8 oz.
Caramel Pils - .8 oz.
Malto Dextrin - 8 oz.

Or more generically, how does one determine the ideal mash temperature for a given grain bill?

Thanks!

From How To Brew, by John Palmer:

How The Mash Works
http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter14-5.html

"A lower mash temperature, less than or equal to 150°F, yields a thinner bodied, drier beer. A higher mash temperature, greater than or equal to 156°F, yields a less fermentable, sweeter beer. This is where a brewer can really fine tune a wort to best produce a particular style of beer."

Mash Infusion Calculator from the Brewers Friend web site:

http://www.brewersfriend.com/mash/

 

[gstojk]

I mashed at 160, I'm new at it, and now the gravity wont go below 1.020. O.G. was 1.045 It's a Kama Citra that I Biabed. Unfermentable sugers I hear. Anything I can do, or just bottle it and move on.

 

[LLBeanJ]

I mashed at 160, I'm new at it, and now the gravity wont go below 1.020. O.G. was 1.045 It's a Kama Citra that I Biabed. Unfermentable sugers I hear. Anything I can do, or just bottle it and move on.

How long has it been fermenting?

 

[wilserbrewer]

I mashed at 160, I'm new at it, and now the gravity wont go below 1.020. O.G. was 1.045 It's a Kama Citra that I Biabed. Unfermentable sugers I hear. Anything I can do, or just bottle it and move on.

I have heard of people adding enzymes to further convert the long chain sugars, some have tried Beano. What can happen is that it may becomes completely fermentable and thinned out with very low FG.

Best bet might be to drink up and brew another batch.


Wilserbrewer
Http://biabbags.webs.com/