Decoction Mashing

[NorsemenRugby58]

I've been reading up on this technique and was wondering if anybody else had done this and seen an improvement in the malt flavor in their beer. I understand that it does not need to be done because almost all grains are well modified, but I keep reading that by boiling the mash as done in the technique provides for a maltier brew.

Yes/No? Post your experience.

 

[944play]

I decoct most of the lagers that I brew. It seems to increase the extraction efficiency in most cases. The real honey for decoction mashing, I think, is hefeweizen. It, to me, seems to scrub away that floury raw thing that wheat beer can sometimes have and nudges it into more of a wafery cake-cone area.

There, now that the issue is settled and there is nothing more to be said on the subject of decoction mashing, achieving cold fusion should be easy.

 

[VladOfTrub]

I decoct all lagers and pilsners. Staying true to the brewing style. The decoction takes the mash through all the temp ranges. With fully modified malt, the protein rest can be short or omitted. I use Budvar low modified malt and do a protein rest. The other thing with doing decoctions. You don't need crystal or meloidan. Also, since water needs to be boiled for step and infusion mashing. Why not just boil the mash? It takes less BTUs to heat mash. The thing with decoction is that Ph is real important. If the Ph is too high, tannins can be stripped, once the mash gets above 170. The other thing is that the plate used for decoction is slotted differently, when compared to the slotted plate used for infusion. The Blichman false bottom is excellent for decoctions.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

I decoction mash all weizen beers. I also decoction mash some of my belgian beers. I definitely think it improves the malt flavors and adds flavor depth but you could probably accomplish essentially the same thing with the right combination of specialty malts. Personally I just find it easier to decoct.

 

[asterix404]

So, you ask an interesting question. While it is true that decoction mashing is not needed for modern malts, German recipes in particular only taste the way they are suppose to with a decoction mash or adding meladonin malt.

Basically the decoction mash is a mini mash once or twice for added efficiency, causing the Millard reactions to occur by boiling the grain, you are bursting the carbohydrate and protein chains and will alter the flavor the beer. It really gives the beer body but a real dryness to it which is the characteristic of most German beers. You can make an 8% bock so dry you have a liter of it and want a liter more. This is very different from a Belgian 8% strong ale where it's very sweet.

The destruction of the chains will also allow enzymes to act on more of the exposed grains and improve efficiency. Please note that VladOfTrub I am assuming was talking about only boiling the grains not the mash. Boiling the mash in whole will denature the enzymes which you need for the step mashes.

There are some very important rests which you should know about.

111 acid rest
113 acid rest for heff to produce the acid which enhances clove flavor.
122-135 protein rest. Skip this if you are not working with 40% or more of wheat. Wheat has a habbit of gumming up the lauder if you don't rest here
148-162 alpha and beta amylase rest.
168-172 mash out. Not required on most or any home systems I can think of but people still do it.

Another note is that this will triple your brew day. I do a double decoction and it takes me about 8 or 9h from start to fish with prepared grains. Doing a decoction is the only want to get authentic German flavors however, so it is well worth considering and it's also a lot of fun. You efficiency numbers hit the roof, I get about 97.5% when I plan out my Heff recipe and that is just fun to brag about to friends.

 

[Malticulous]

I didn't decoct my last Bohemian Pilsner and it lacked the depth of flavor I'm used to. I believe that the decoction is worth the effort for some beers (certanly not a pale ale.)

I have my double decotions down to just over a few hours.

Mash in ~2qt/lb at 145, rest, pull all the thick half of the mash, boil.
Add it back to get to 155+, rest, pull the thin half and boil.
Add back to get to 168.

There are no rests in the decoction kettle, it's just heated slowly. I add back until the temp is correct then cool the rest before adding it all. The mash has to be thin to keep enough enzymes. Sometimes I'll do a protein rest and infuse to 145, it really depends on the malt. I could make it a single decoction and infuse the mash out (or not even do one.) The thick decoction is the most important one.

 

[Airborneguy]

Another note is that this will triple your brew day. I do a double decoction and it takes me about 8 or 9h from start to fish with prepared grains.

Can you describe your decoction process please? I've started double-decocting my lagers and it's only adding maybe an hour to my entire day, so I'm wondering if there is something I'm missing from how I am doing it.

Here's what I've been doing:

1. Dough in my mash. I use .40 gallons per pound of grain.

2. Pull 2 gallons of mash and bring it to a boil on my burner. I can usually get it boiling in less than 5 minutes.

3. Boil for 10 min. Return to mash.

4. After 15 min, pull second decoction of same size, and repeat the procedure.

5. Return to mash, mash for 45 min then run-off.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

Can you describe your decoction process please? I've started double-decocting my lagers and it's only adding maybe an hour to my entire day, so I'm wondering if there is something I'm missing from how I am doing it.

Here's what I've been doing:

1. Dough in my mash. I use .40 gallons per pound of grain.

2. Pull 2 gallons of mash and bring it to a boil on my burner. I can usually get it boiling in less than 5 minutes.

3. Boil for 10 min. Return to mash.

4. After 15 min, pull second decoction of same size, and repeat the procedure.

5. Return to mash, mash for 45 min then run-off.

Some of those rests need more than 10-15 minutes, or at a minimum are traditionally done for longer than 10-15 minutes.

 

[asterix404]

Sure, so this is what I have pieced together from a few sources and this is the way I do a heff

I dough in at 113 with .75qt/lb of water for about 20min
I infuse to 122 with .75qt/lb of water for about 20-30min

This gives me 1.5qt/lb

I then do a thick pull number 1. I run it up to 148 as fast as possible. Slowly raise the temp to 162 over between 15-20min then hold at 162 for 10min. Boil for 10min. You can boil for upwards of an hour for really dark beers. The lighter the beer, the shorter the boil. My weissebock was 60min.

Add back to the mash stirring as you add back the boiled grain. This will raise the MLT to 148-152. Wait 30min. Pull for decoction number 2.

Slowly raise the grain to 162 over 15min and hold for 10min at 162. Bring to a boil as fast as possible without scorching the grain. Boil for about 10min and add back slowly to raise the MLT to 158-162. Wait about 30min and drain very slowly. Once the liquid is collected, put it on heat in the kettle while sparging.

I batch sparge to get the grain to about 168-172 and drain that into the kettle.
I only decoct on the stove because my burner outputs a ton of heat and I can't get the controlled temperature increases. Once the grain has sat at 162 for 10min I bring it to a boil on the burner.

A few notes about decoction mashing. You can always add cold water, adding hot water is harder... try to get the rest temps higher by pulling more. I always pull all of my grain and some of the liquid to get about 50-60% of the volume in the MLT. A little bit of cold water goes a very long way.

Even more important and I can't stress this enough, decoction mashing is not appropriate for all styles. English and Dutch beer tastes the way it does because they do single infusion mashing. One is not better than the other but you can always tell a decocted beer from one that isn't.

 

[Bulls Beers]

Do you have to have two pots? I mash inside with a 10 gallon cooler, Once my mash is done and I've collected my runnings, I boil outside. If you are not using two pots, how do you hit the different temps?

 

[NorsemenRugby58]

Thanks for all the replies. My goal is to get better malt profiles in my beers. The aroma and bitterness/hop flavor of my beers is always to my liking but the body and malt flavor of my beers is nearly always lacking. I think decoction mashing (even pale ales and such, even though it isnt to style) will achieve the results that I want. Thanks all.

 

[asterix404]

Yea, I have a 42qt pot for the kettle and I run the decoctions in a 20qt aluminum pot. The second pot was really cheap and I haven't figure out how to do a single MLT kettle setup. Basically, once you drain the runnings you will still need to have a pot to bring sparge water up to 175. I guess you can apparently sparge with cold water which I only just found out about.