Dead yeast from an online supplier -- should I ask for my money back?

[spiffcow]

So I ordered a couple vials of yeast from a reputable online supplier last Tuesday, with the cold pack since it's the middle of summer. It finally showed up yesterday and the vial, along with the "cold" packs, felt like they were about 90* F. I immediately made a starter. Now it's been a day and there's no activity in the starter. The yeast are dead.

Is it unreasonable to ask for my money back? I paid for the cold packs.. And now I'm out $18 because I have to buy 2 new vials of yeast. Anybody ever had an issue with this?

 

[DustinHickey]

Are you sure they were dead? I've never made a successful starter. I tried once with some white labs yeast I got the same way and I didnt see any sign of fermentation. I don't know if this is right but I was told that you dont always see signs of fermentation in starters. Is that true?

If it isn't I may have committed yeast genocide because some iodifor water may have gotten sucked into the wort. I pitched at 75 and then it cooled down to around 65 and sucked some through.

Oh, and what was the "best used by date"?

 

[whatsleftofyou]

I'd reiterate the "Are you sure?" question. I've seen starters ferment out in only a few hours, so I missed it while I was sleeping or at work. If it is indeed a problem, I would contact the vendor and tell them the situation. Every reputable online supplier should have impeccable customer service and take care of you appropriately.

 

[Homercidal]

Give it just a little more time. You may not see much krausen at all, or have missed it. Make sure to check for trub on the bottom after a few days. Most of my starters have gotten going by the next day, but for some harvested yeast (low cell count), they have taken longer.

If you don't see any signs in the next few days I'd def call and see what they say. Shipping yeast "can" be problematic, but with an ice pack, they almost always get there ok.

 

[brewagentjay]

Call Vendor and tell them what you got and I'm sure they'll send you out some yeast or do something to keep you as customer.

 

[BeerJorge]

I've never seen bubbles or activity in my starters... but that doesn't mean it is dead. Look for yeast slurry to form at the bottom of the starter.

 

[spiffcow]

I guess I should also mention (since everyone is bringing it up) that the yeast at the bottom is about 1/4" thick, the same thickness as it was an hour after pitching. I gave it a shake this morning before heading to work, so I'll see how it's doing when I get home.. But I'm not feeling too hopeful about this one.

 

[SoonerDoc]

Midwest gave me my money back for some yeast that they shipped that was about 5 months old.

 

[MistyMountainHops]

I ordered some from AHS last summer and the same thing happened, but that was not their fault, it was mine for ordering their flat rate shipping which typically takes a week to get to me. No yeast is going to survive 110* summers from Austin to OK with a cold pack or not. If you want to buy yeast from a supplier you need to get the faster shipping ie pay more. What I have been doing since I really like AHS is buying their recipes/kits and selecting the "no yeast" option, and then I buy my yeast locally here in OKC (at least in the summer time).

 

[TheWeeb]

+ditto on the request from the on-line supplier to send you another order of the same yeast at no charge. They should do this without question; and if in the meantime yours starts to reproduce, even better.

 

[motobrewer]

if its not past the "use by date", i wouldn't expect to get anything from the vender.

i mean, what do you want them to do? if it's 110F outside, and you have something in transit for 2-3 days, an ice pack is gonna melt pretty darn quick.

buy local or pay for overnight shipping.

 

[lurker18]

Sorry to hear about that, it sucks, but I have to agree with some that it may not be the vendors fault. Unless you paid extra for next day delivery, it may have sat in a hot mail truck for a couple of days. That ice pack would have been done very quickly.
If you did get the next day service, then you might have a leg to stand on.

 

[spiffcow]

I ordered some from AHS last summer and the same thing happened, but that was not their fault, it was mine for ordering their flat rate shipping which typically takes a week to get to me. No yeast is going to survive 110* summers from Austin to OK with a cold pack or not. If you want to buy yeast from a supplier you need to get the faster shipping ie pay more. What I have been doing since I really like AHS is buying their recipes/kits and selecting the "no yeast" option, and then I buy my yeast locally here in OKC (at least in the summer time).

I'm going to count this as at least partially their fault this time.. I ordered on Tuesday, but they didn't ship until Friday, which means that it sat over the weekend in an overheated UPS facility, when it would have gotten to me 2 days earlier if they had shipped it sooner.

But yeah, definitely just getting local from now on. It just sucks because Brew Shop has a pretty limited selection, and Learn to Brew is a huge pain in the ass to get to.

 

[Captain_Bigelow]

Most online websites have disclaimers saying that they are not responsible for the yeast if it dies during shipping.

I am thinking myself of better planning and trying to predict what I will need in the summer and order earlier in the year when temperatures are lower.

I know what you mean about shipping on a Friday. If there is yeast, the vendor should hold the order until Monday and ship so it is not stuck at a hot freight terminal. I typically place my online orders around Saturday or Sunday. Then by the time they get around to shipping the order it is usually Monday or Tuesday.

 

[motobrewer]

if it didn't ship until friday, it sat in their store (presumably in the fridge) until...friday.

make a trip to a good store, stock up, and harvest. or go dry. dry yeast are good.

 

[Malticulous]

I had a WLP300 starter that was the same gravity after 24 hours. I emailed B3 and they priority mailed me another vial and 1/4 lb DME. The next day the starter took off.

 

[BrookdaleBrew]

I ordered some from AHS last summer and the same thing happened, but that was not their fault, it was mine for ordering their flat rate shipping which typically takes a week to get to me. No yeast is going to survive 110* summers from Austin to OK with a cold pack or not. If you want to buy yeast from a supplier you need to get the faster shipping ie pay more. What I have been doing since I really like AHS is buying their recipes/kits and selecting the "no yeast" option, and then I buy my yeast locally here in OKC (at least in the summer time).

This has not been my experience at all. I've been ordering from them with ice packs since the weather has gotten hot. I always make a starter and I always get good yeast.

 

[TheWeeb]

. . .and all that I am saying is that if you are a good customer of, say Midwest, and you report that the yeast did not make it alive, even though you paid for the cool pack, I am sure they will make things right with you and not quibble over a $6 vial of yeast. They want your continued business. It is called customer satisfaction. For me, it is a two hour drive one way and $50 in gas just to get to the closest LHBS. I have to rely on the Internets almost exclusively, and in turn expect them to treat me fairly.

 

[motobrewer]

i'm sorry you live in the middle of nowhere, but how are they treating you unfairly? because yeast died in the 4-day 110F trip? by shipping what you asked? if you want guaranteed good yeast, have them ship it in a cooler packed with dry ice, and pay for it. or pay next day air. or both.

i think you're treating them unfairly.

 

[Special Hops]

if its not past the "use by date", i wouldn't expect to get anything from the vender.

i mean, what do you want them to do? if it's 110F outside, and you have something in transit for 2-3 days, an ice pack is gonna melt pretty darn quick.

buy local or pay for overnight shipping.

exactly. shipping liquid yeast in the summer time is risky. even with an ice pack. I wouldn't expect an ice pack to make it more then 1 day tops inside of a hot delivery truck or warehouse. Unless you paid for fast shipping I would not expect my money back. But they may "eat" it give it to you as "good customer service"

 

[TheWeeb]

Midwest's claim is this: "While 90% of yeast arrives in a viable condition throughout the summer, these insulated shipping pouches will ensure that the level of viability is the best it can be. We are offering this option as a shipping. upgrade for only $1.75 (which is basically our cost on the ice pack and pouch combined)."

Thus, if they claim 90% viability in the summer without any special packaging, and you buck for the extra protection, that "ensure the level of viability is the best it can be .... " and the yeast is subsequently not viable, yes, they should send a replacement at no cost. I am sure they would do so happily!

 

[motobrewer]

90% = 100%?

 

[tvtoms]

It'd only take a couple hours in the morning hot sun on *my* porch to roast anything in a closed box Massive southern exposure always heats up the front to the melting point, lol.
I put in an order from midwest on monday which includes yeast. Havent gotten the ship confirmation yet, but I hope it comes saturday else it WILL be in a fed ex location all weekend. And I forgot to add the cold packing. Oh well. we shall see. Good luck.

 

[ravensbrew]

Personally I think you have to take some individual responsibility as a consumer and realize that if its over 100 degrees outside standard 3-5 day shipping is probably not a good idea for yeast.

On the other side of things I've seen retailers in other industries actually require next day shipping during the summer months on particularly heat sensitive items just to avoid this sort of thing.

I do however echo the sentiment to support your LHBS and pick up your yeast from them whenever possible. But if your stuck using an online retailer as your only option, stock up early and read the yeast washing thread

*edit* That being said I would still contact the retailer to see if there is anything they can do to help out. They may be very willing help out with the situation.

 

[Brewham]

Starters are relatively weak in the sugar department compared to a full blown wort. They don't kick up a lot foam and in 24 hours, might not kick up any. Mine starts out gassing at about 20 hours but you wouldn't notice unless it was in a sealed container. I would wait before I panicked.

On the issue of yeast shipments. I would gladly pay a deposit for a decent insulated bag with 2 ice packs. I pay the deposit and mail the insulated bag and ice packs back to the shipper for a credit on my next order. My only net cost would be the postage and that would be about the same as what I now pay for one wimpy ice pack that arrives blood warm.

The first shipper to offer this option will get a ton of business and no complaints about dead yeast.

 

[spiffcow]

Got it resolved.. They gave me a store credit, though it looks like they didn't credit me for the ice pack. I'll be buying yeast locally from now on. It sucks because none of the local shops carry the yeast I ordered. I guess I'll just have to sub it.

 

[lurker18]

Good to see you got something done here. Have you tried talking to the owners of your LHBS to see if they can order in for you. The guy that runs the one in my town will place special orders, although you have to plan out your brew schedule 3 months in adavance to do this. I'm sure when yeast is being shipped from Wyeast or White Labs at hundreds of pouches at a time, there is much more care taken than any of us get from the online suppliers, no matter what we ask for.

 

[motobrewer]

glad you got it resolved.

unfortunately, the internet does not solve all problems. like shipping yeast in 110F.

 

[MikeG]

Good to see you got something done here. Have you tried talking to the owners of your LHBS to see if they can order in for you. The guy that runs the one in my town will place special orders, although you have to plan out your brew schedule 3 months in adavance to do this. I'm sure when yeast is being shipped from Wyeast or White Labs at hundreds of pouches at a time, there is much more care taken than any of us get from the online suppliers, no matter what we ask for.

Or brew that style when the temps are more advantageous.

 

[starrfish]

I'm in SC... I order from a vendor in NC. If I order on Monday I usually have my package by Weds... But I only order dry yeast over the summer with a cold pack (or 2... extra $2 for 2). Even so, temps are super hot now through sept. I'm living off my washed yeast, yeast I stocked up on before it got too hot, and dry yeast until Sept. I usually put a big yeast order in in may and stock my fridge for the hot summer.