Czech Lager yeast not fermenting...

[Gonjeshk]

So this is new. I brewed a lager on Sunday, pitched a pack of Escarpment Lab Czech Lager yeast - basically the Canadian version of Imperial’s L28 Urkel. The yeast had been sitting in my keezer at 35*F, and I pitched it at straight from there into the wort at 55*. I then set the brew jacket to 50*F, so basically the yeast would warm up a little to get the fermentation started before dropping back down to 50* for the long haul.

I know lager yeasts sometimes take a while to start off, so when 48 hours went by with no signs of activity, I wasn’t too worried, just let the temperature rise to 56*. It has now been 36 hours and the gravity hasn’t budged from 1.055. I’m going to let it warm up to 60 and see if something starts happening. The problem is, tomorrow I’m heading out of town for a few days and I don’t want to leave it not fermenting. Should I just be more patient, or should I run out to my homebrew shop and grab another pack of yeast?

 

[Duffman870727]

What was the expiry date on the package? Typically, a pouch does not contain enough cells for a lager even when fresh, starters are usually required and definitely required with older yeast. Never cool yeast after pitching, this signals them to go dormant and they usually won't wake up again. Always knock out a couple degrees cooler than your intended ferment temp, then allow it to rise up to ferment temp. Take the yeast out of the fridge a few hours ahead of time to warm up to ferment temp to avoid temperature shock when you pitch.

 

[Gonjeshk]

What was the expiry date on the package? Typically, a pouch does not contain enough cells for a lager even when fresh, starters are usually required and definitely required with older yeast. Never cool yeast after pitching, this signals them to go dormant and they usually won't wake up again. Always knock out a couple degrees cooler than your intended ferment temp, then allow it to rise up to ferment temp. Take the yeast out of the fridge a few hours ahead of time to warm up to ferment temp to avoid temperature shock when you pitch.

Escarpment (and Imperial) aren’t your typical yeasts - they actually have 200+ billion yeast cells per pack. Since I started using them over two years ago, I haven’t had to bother with a starter and had excellent results.

Anyhow, the yeast was three months old, but still three months before before its best-before date.

With regard to temperature, both Escarpment labs and Imperial direct you to pitch straight out of the refrigerator, without warming it up. Sounds a little odd, but again, that’s what I’ve been doing and haven’t had an off batch yet.

 

[Vale71]

With liquid (i.e. live) yeast there is a always the possibility that the yeast pack was mishandled and the yeast is dead. Without a starter unfortunately you'll find out only after pitching. Not saying this is what happened in your case, but if fermentation actually never starts this is the most likely cause.

 

[Gonjeshk]

Fair enough, we’ll see how it looks in the morning, and if there’s still no activity, I’ll pitch another yeast.

 

[IslandLizard]

I can recommend using a yeast calculator AND making starters AND aerate/oxygenate when pitching.

http://www.brewunited.com/yeast_calculator.php tells us you'd need 385 billion cells for that batch.
Even a super fresh pack is not enough, but it may contain more healthy cells or just pull through. Or not.
3 months old liquid yeast has around 50% viability left, so your initial 200 billion cells are now 100. You underpitched by a factor 4. If you're fortunate, the pack is more viable. If the pack was mishandled at some point, viability could be less.

A simple 2 liter starter, 2-5 days on a stir plate before pitching would have a) proven viability and b) grown the needed cells, while revitalizing the existing ones. Sure you could pitch fewer, and it might still work. Or not.

 

[cactusgarrett]

Even a super fresh pack is not enough, but it may contain more healthy cells or just pull through. Or not.
3 months old liquid yeast has around 50% viability left, so your initial 200 billion cells are now 100. You underpitched by a factor 4. If you're fortunate, the pack is more viable. If the pack was mishandled at some point, viability could be less.

A simple 2 liter starter, 2-5 days on a stir plate before pitching would have a) proven viability and b) grown the needed cells, while revitalizing the existing ones. Sure you could pitch fewer, and it might still work. Or not.

This perfectly sums up my thoughts when people bring up the notion that starters (in general) aren't necessary. I guess they're right: a starter isn't necessary.... until it is. Unless I'm using a dry yeast, starter every time for this guy.

 

[IslandLizard]

Unless I'm using a dry yeast, starter every time for this guy.

I do pitch slurry without starters if harvested recently say within the past 2-4 weeks. If slurry is older than 4-6 weeks, vitality starter. Older than 2-3 months, full starter.

 

[cactusgarrett]

Well yeah, that too - you're right. Forgot about that aspect.

 

[Mer-man]

With liquid (i.e. live) yeast there is a always the possibility that the yeast pack was mishandled and the yeast is dead. Without a starter unfortunately you'll find out only after pitching. Not saying this is what happened in your case, but if fermentation actually never starts this is the most likely cause.

Gotta day, I think that was the case with my last pack of WLP090. It was like it was never there

 

[IslandLizard]

Gotta day, I think that was the case with my last pack of WLP090. It was like it was never there

That really sucks. Did you pitch something else after a few days?

When making a starter you can often judge by the color how much viable yeast you've got. When it turns significantly lighter after 24-48 hours on the plate, you know the yeast was pretty healthy and numerous. If it remains dark for a few days, it needs to grow more cell. In that case I often let it stir/shake for a week (even 2 weeks in extreme cases) until I see some color change.

When you know the yeast is old or in bad shape, starting out with smaller starters is advantageous too, it reduces stress on the yeast. Like 0.5 - 1 liter of 1.010 or 1.020 wort.

 

[Mer-man]

That really sucks. Did you pitch something else after a few days?

When making a starter you can often judge by the color how much viable yeast you've got. When it turns significantly lighter after 24-48 hours on the plate, you know the yeast was pretty healthy and numerous. If it remains dark for a few days, it needs to grow more cell. In that case I often let it stir/shake for a week (even 2 weeks in extreme cases) until I see some color change.

When you know the yeast is old or in bad shape, starting out with smaller starters is advantageous too, it reduces stress on the yeast. Like 0.5 - 1 liter of 1.010 or 1.020 wort.

I see my typo there, but it wasn't a problem

Fortunately I was growing a starter and so I went with WLP007. I'd noticed the old package date on the 090, and I won't make that mistake again.

Moral of the story is, always have a backup dry yeast.

 

[kh54s10]

Escarpment (and Imperial) aren’t your typical yeasts - they actually have 200+ billion yeast cells per pack. Since I started using them over two years ago, I haven’t had to bother with a starter and had excellent results.

Anyhow, the yeast was three months old, but still three months before before its best-before date.

With regard to temperature, both Escarpment labs and Imperial direct you to pitch straight out of the refrigerator, without warming it up. Sounds a little odd, but again, that’s what I’ve been doing and haven’t had an off batch yet.

A few things of note:

These yeast packs do contain more yeast than others but that 200 billion is on the day packaged. The older the pack the fewer viable cells remaining.

Even at 200 billion that is still underpitching in a lager by about half. My calculator calls for about 400 billion cells

Pitching direct from the refrigerator would normally be a fair amount warmer than your 35 degrees.

 

[monkeymath]

I found this thread because I'm having a similar issue with the same yeast (the Imperial version, though). I made a starter ahead of time - starting with 350ml, then stepping up to two liters. The starter went nuts. Once the yeast was done, I cooled it and allowed it to settle for about 14 hours before I decanted (against my usual procedure) and pitched. The wort was at 11c and I continued cooling down to 9 degrees celsius.

It took 30hours for the first sluggish signs of life. I then increased the temp to 10c. It still (42 hours post pitch) has not really taken off.

I know this is below the recommended temperature range given by the manufacturer, but still well above commercial fermentation temperatures. I know they have a lot more and much healthier yeast, but still 9c should not be an issue for a lager yeast?!