Cultured buttermilk confusion.

[lacto]

Hello folks,

I need help! I am confused about the term "cultured buttermilk".

Living in France means that I can legally buy raw milk, so I want to use it to make various cheeses. However, I have found that one of the recipes I want to try requires cultured buttermilk.

So, my question is - what is the difference between the liquid whey I get after clabbering the raw milk from the so called "cultured" buttermilk which appears to be the liquid obtained from making butter with pasteurized milk, then with a "culture starter" added back to it? Does not the liquid I get already contain the relevant living bacteria I need to add to milk to make cheese?

I should add that I do not want buy any powdered culture, I want to make my own culture - after all has not cheese making been around for thousands of years before the modern perception of things like pasteurized milk?

Looking forward to your response.

 

[bracconiere]

after all has not cheese making been around for thousands of years before the modern perception of things like pasteurized milk?

i thought butter milk was soured milk? not actually the liquid from making butter? at least here in the states....


and i think back in the olden days didn't they get their rennet enzyme from like something like sheeps stoamaches or something?


(i'm learning along with you...)

 

[DBhomebrew]

Real buttermilk is the liquid left over after turning the fats into butter. It is not the same as cultured or clabbered milk. They can (+ regular milk) be used interchangeably for baking to slightly to moderately different results.

Real buttermilk is delicious. Drink it from a glass delicious. Do not drink cultured or clabbered milk from a glass.

 

[eliastheodosis]

Real buttermilk is the liquid left over after turning the fats into butter. It is not the same as cultured or clabbered milk. They can (+ regular milk) be used interchangeably for baking to slightly to moderately different results.

Yes, absolutely this. Buttermilk is the leftover liquid once you churn the milk and it separates if anybody doesn't know. And yes it's delicious. You can mimic it for baking and it works fine but it's not buttermilk.

the so called "cultured" buttermilk which appears to be the liquid obtained from making butter with pasteurized milk

I don't how anyone else defines cultured buttermilk but I don't make my butter from just pasteurized milk. I innoculate milk with bacteria and age it for a couple days to culture it. Then I make butter from that. So my definition of "cultured buttermilk" would be to make cultured butter and to then use the buttermilk that results from that process. I would expect that to be more flavorful and satisfying than a buttermilk made from plain pasteurized butter that is then "cultured". In your case it would be simple since you can get raw milk. That raw milk already has bacteria in it, so let that sour some and then make it into butter. That's cultured butter. Use the buttermilk from that for your cheese. Use the butter for everything. You are French, though, so you probably don't need those final directions

**edit - Maybe you're just in France. Either way, if that's the case then I would suggest you eat the butter just to fit in with everyone

 

[lacto]

Thank you both for your responses. Great - this is really exciting! I have already started clabbering two litres of raw milk so tomorrow (Monday) I will skim the sour cream, try not to "sample" too much!, then chill it and agitate it. This will only give me about 60g of cultured butter, and around 200ml of buttermilk which will be added to another litre of raw milk. I will then clabber the mixture and hopefully get a little bit of buttermilk cheese to go with the chapati (made with the whey) which will be filled with delicious kimchi and washed down with home roasted Yirgacheffe Turkish coffee ... Heaven!

No, I am not French but an ancient Brit who has now lived in this beautiful country for the last 18 years - and I STILL cannot get the hang of the language!! Doh!

 

[eliastheodosis]

Thank you both for your responses. Great - this is really exciting! I have already started clabbering two litres of raw milk so tomorrow (Monday) I will skim the sour cream, try not to "sample" too much!, then chill it and agitate it. This will only give me about 60g of cultured butter, and around 200ml of buttermilk which will be added to another litre of raw milk. I will then clabber the mixture and hopefully get a little bit of buttermilk cheese to go with the chapati (made with the whey) which will be filled with delicious kimchi and washed down with home roasted Yirgacheffe Turkish coffee ... Heaven!

Happy to help! It seems like you're living your best life and this all sounds amazing! I now have a proper back yard and one of the things on my list is to ferment some kimchi underground. If for no other reason than to give my neighbors something to talk about

 

[lacto]

Happy to help! It seems like you're living your best life and this all sounds amazing! I now have a proper back yard and one of the things on my list is to ferment some kimchi underground. If for no other reason than to give my neighbors something to talk about

... And the first out of the clabber box is ...

Cultured, and wonderfully clabbered, cream and the milk.
Skimming appears to be easier doing it with cultured cream.
I am a little surprised as to the smaller amount - less than 200ml of cultured cream - and it does not taste very tangy ... but very very acceptable!
I decided on 20 minutes in a cold bath (not me, silly - the cream!!) - then churning for 30 minutes.
Second surprise is the larger amount of butter! About 85g.
(Added salt gives it a dangerously delightful flavour!)
Third surprise - not much buttermilk - about 100ml.
I have added the buttermilk to a litre of warm milk and will monitor it for the next day or so.
Does buttermilk contain acid - like lactic acid or something that will enhance the cuddling of the milk?

Stay tuned ...

After dishing out a little of the curds and whey (perhaps for tomorrow's breakfast) I am separating the skimmed clabbered milk to get the farmers cheese (or whatever it might be called).