Critique my Amber Ale recipe

[crawforc3]

I'm brewing an Amber ale in the next couple of days and I'm not sure how I feel about the Crystal 120 here. In the beginning I was just trying to keep things simple and use three malts or less, but now I'm not so sure. What would you do with this grain bill?

On hand, I have C-20/40/60/120, Munich, Melanoiden, and Honey that I can play around with.

9.0 lbs Pale malt (2 Row) - 90%
0.5 lbs Crystal 60 - 5%
0.5 lbs Crystal 120 - 5%

1.00 oz Cascade 60 minutes (20.6 IBUs)
0.50 oz Cascade 15 minutes (3.7 IBUs)

OG 1.050
IBUs 24.3
Color 11.2 SRM
Est ABV 5.0%

 

[NobleNewt]

Probably a pretty good base recipe! I'm with you.. Not sure about the 120. I've made my Saint Arnold Amber clone two different ways: one with some crystal and chocolate malt (for color) and another with only pale malt and caravienne with a sprinkle of chocolate malt. I liked the latter better.

It looked something like this:

92.6% Pale 2-Row
6.2% Caravienne
1.1% Chocolate

I find that too much dark malt gives the beer some bitterness and astringency that I don't care for in an amber. I like it more on the malty side with a clean hop profile.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Many of the great beers of the world are made with very simple recipes - so stay true to what you like.

Here is a link to Breiss' descriptions about their crystal malts - Briess Roasted Caramel(Crystal) Malts

The 120 will provide, "Pronounced caramel, burnt sugar, raisiny, prunes" flavors. If you like that flavor profile then go with it. Also 10% crystal is a moderately high amount, so your beer may turn out on the sweeter side.

Regarding the Munich, Melanoidin, and Honey Malts. These are not Crystal malts they are kilned malts and will impart maltier flavors such as in Bocks and Octoberfests. The Melanoidin is quite intense so my thoughts are to stick with the Munich if you want to up these flavors in an Amber Ale.

Also, here is a link to a great article on the harsh zone malts which 120 crystal falls into. It provides some great direction when planning recipes.
https://byo.com/article/avoiding-harsh-zone/
Hops look good.

Overall. Your recipe looks good. Only change I would make to fit my flavor profile would be to cut the 120 crystal % in half and maybe change it out for Crystal 40. Doing so you may need a little bit of dark roasted malt for color.

 

[IslandLizard]

Take a look in our recipe database under Amber Ales, for inspiration and variations on the theme.

I like to layer the Caramels such as 20/40/60, a touch of 80 or 120. No more than 10% in total, [or as @Holden Caulfield pointed out] rather a little less, say 8%, especially when using more crystal on the darker side.
Plus a pound of homemade sugar syrup in the D-60 to D-90 range.
A little Chocolate malt for extra depth of color if needed.

Or use a combo of Cara malts such as CaraVienne and CaraMunich, there's a subtle difference among maltsters.

The British line of Crystals has its unique place too, the kernels are more variegated within a C-class.
You get all sorts of light, medium, and darker kernels in a C60 for example, which automatically provides for even more layering, IMO.

 

[3 Dawg Night]

I like to layer the Caramels such as 20/40/60, a touch of 80 or 120. No more than 10% in total, [or as @Holden Caulfield pointed out] rather a little less, say 8%, especially when using more crystal on the darker side.

This is pretty close to what I do for my house amber. I use ~10% munich, ~10% C40, ~4% C60, ~4% C80, a little bit of wheat for head retention, and the rest 2 row. Tastes really nice.

I think @crawforc3's will be a nice, malty, tasty beer.

 

[crawforc3]

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the comments.

@Holden Caulfield I saw that article on harsh malts recently and forgot about it. Glad you shared it, it's super helpful. There's a part that warns not to use harsh malts for color and that's exactly what I was doing -- sitting in beersmith making the SRM go up and down with caramel 120 haha.

This is pretty close to what I do for my house amber. I use ~10% munich, ~10% C40, ~4% C60, ~4% C80, a little bit of wheat for head retention, and the rest 2 row. Tastes really nice.

That's slot of caramel! I'm not so scared of my 10% now


Either way, I'm thinking about decreasing my total caramel to 8% by adding oats and Munich now.

What's a reasonable amount of Munich to use in an Amber? I've seen recipes using anywhere from 5 to 12%.

 

[3 Dawg Night]

That's slot of caramel! I'm not so scared of my 10% now

What's a reasonable amount of Munich to use in an Amber? I've seen recipes using anywhere from 5 to 12%.

I did some analysis (a la Ray Daniels' method) on NHC amber winners over the past few years. They averaged ~14% caramel (high was 20.5%; low was 4.2%), with an average Lovibond of 45. The winners used ~5% Munich (high was 9.1%; low was 0%).

 

[IslandLizard]

The winners used ~5% Munich (high was 9.1%; low was 0%).

IMO, Munich has no business in an Amber. But could one taste it if it were in there at 5%? Hmm...

 

[3 Dawg Night]

IMO, Munich has no business in an Amber.

Interesting. I'd love to hear your expanded thoughts. Munich imparts a malty/biscuity flavor/aroma, so why would it be out of place in an amber? I use ~10% in mine.

 

[IslandLizard]

Interesting. I'd love to hear your expanded thoughts. Munich imparts a malty/biscuity flavor/aroma, so why would it be out of place in an amber? I use ~10% in mine.

Hmm... Ambers are not German beers, so why use Munich?
I really doubt you can taste or "see" the Munich at 10% in a (heavy) crystal-based beer. Crystal malts are way more assertive than Munich at any percentage.
Besides, you're really not after malty/biscuity flavors, you want complex sweetness.
If you want a biscuity background to help accentuate that, use some Victory.

 

[3 Dawg Night]

If you want a biscuity background to help accentuate that, use some Victory.

I've made it with Victory as well. Both are nice.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

That's slot of caramel! I'm not so scared of my 10% now

If one likes a sweeter beverage on occasion, there's a clone recipe for Pete's Wicked ale (AHA forums, links available upon request) that's just over 20% 60L. I brewed the all grain version and it was good. IIRC, there's also an Amber Ale recipe here at HBT that's around 15% 60L.

I will suggest avoiding using DME/LME as a base malt in these beers. There's yet another HBT topic that talks about fermentability in crystal malt. So I suspect that the combination of DME & 15% crystal leads to that cloyingly sweet that many people don't like. Blind triangle test to confirm something that I don't plan to do? " Ain't Nobody Got Time for That"

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Ambers are not German beers, so why use Munich?

I think of Munich malt as being at the lower end of the kilned malt scale that includes the Amber, Victory, Biscuit, and Melanoidin malts. Many of these are similar except that they are trademarked brand names. As the lovibond increases, so does the intensity of the melanoidin flavors as well as some of the nuances such as found in light and dark breadcrust - kind of like gradually increasing the darkness level of toast. These flavors are very different than the caramel flavors in crystal malt that also become more intense and morph as the lovibond increases. That being said, if you want a less intense melanoidin rich malt flavor that is often present in the specialty malts, then using a dark or even light Munich could be a good option.

Below is a quote from Craft Beer and Brewing Magazine on the grist for an American Amber..." Grist is actually a bit more complicated than usual since it’s going to have to compete with hops, and I can’t guarantee that the subtler flavors in the malt will come through. So I start with 75 percent Maris Otter, and then add equal parts British crystal 45L and Munich malts (about 8 percent each). This ensures a healthy dose of bread, toffee, and caramel flavors as a backdrop for the hops."

 

[DBhomebrew]

from Craft Beer and Brewing Magazine

https://beerandbrewing.com/make-your-best-american-amber-ale/
I'm a big fan of Weikert's Make Your Best series. I've brewed eight or so of his recipes and each have been delicious. One thing to take note of is that he builds them to the BJCP style guide and doesn't feel restricted to ingredient provenance or, say, brewing English beers the way English brewers do. A very American approach, eh?