Creating/splitting/storing large yeast starter. How to?

[alexipas]

Hello folks,

I just picked up a new strain of yeast that would be great for all the beers I make. I want to make a large starter and split it up into 5 mason jars for future brews.

Should I make the starter and split it 2x, store one and pitch the other half? Then make a starter from the half I stored and split that and so on and so forth?

Or is it possible to make one giant one and split it into my own 5 little jars like I bought from the store.

I would just going to boil up a crap load of unmeasured DME maybe half a pound? and pitch the yeast. decant, pour in more DME a few days later until I have one big beautiful flask of yeast I can split. Did I miss a step? I've never made a starter before but the price of good yeast makes me want to split it up to be more cost effective!

 

[Beewrangler63]

I use this pitching calculator and overbuild for a couple batches of yeast.
http://www.brewunited.com/yeast_calculator.php

It will tell you how much to pitch and how much to harvest.

 

[IslandLizard]

How much you can grow per cycle depends on how much yeast you start out with.
Use a yeast calculator such as HomebrewDad's or YeastCalc to determine your cell count after the starter.
Do you use a stir plate?

For example pitching 50ml of yeast slurry into 3 liters of starter wort may give you optimal growth. Pitch the same amount in 30 liters and you may not see all that many more cells, but it will ferment out your 30 liters leaving you with a lot of crappy beer.

A step starter is probably best for your purpose here. You can also freeze some it (with some glycerine) for longer term storage.

 

[alexipas]

How much you can grow per cycle depends on how much yeast you start out with.
Use a yeast calculator such as HomebrewDad's or YeastCalc to determine your cell count after the starter.
Do you use a stir plate?

For example pitching 50ml of yeast slurry into 3 liters of starter wort may give you optimal growth. Pitch the same amount in 30 liters and you may not see all that many more cells, but it will ferment out your 30 liters leaving you with a lot of crappy beer.

A step starter is probably best for your purpose here. You can also freeze some it (with some glycerine) for longer term storage.

Lots of good info thanks! I like the idea of freezing some and that makes complete sense to not under pitch.
I do not have a stir plate.

When you say a step starter, Do you mean, make a starter, then before using it, double that up again?

Can I wash and reuse that yeast after do the above said steps? or is it getting weaker and weaker

 

[eric19312]

Why not make a 5 gallon batch of something low IBU low ABV and no dry hops. Just some lawnmower beer of some variety. Then split the cake from that batch into mason jars. Bam you have your yeast for multiple other batches and some tasty lawnmower beer to drink while you brew them

 

[alexipas]

Why not make a 5 gallon batch of something low IBU low ABV and no dry hops. Just some lawnmower beer of some variety. Then split the cake from that batch into mason jars. Bam you have your yeast for multiple other batches and some tasty lawnmower beer to drink while you brew them

That is a great idea actually!! I love to dry hop and I don't think that would wash well.
Have you tried the Centennial blonde by BierMuncher ? That's my go to lawnmower beer!

 

[IslandLizard]

Lots of good info thanks! I like the idea of freezing some and that makes complete sense to not under pitch.
I do not have a stir plate.

When you say a step starter, Do you mean, make a starter, then before using it, double that up again?

Can I wash and reuse that yeast after do the above said steps? or is it getting weaker and weaker

Read up about freezing yeast, it's not difficult, but you will need to use (special) tubes for it. The process of freezing and thawing is important to the yeast's survival and vitality.

You really want to build (or buy) a stir plate to propagate yeast as fast and efficiently as possible. You could swirl or shake, but growth rate will be much lower. See the yield in those calculators when changing our agitation method.

Alternatively, you could do the "shaken not stirred" method (do a search), using gallon jugs with 1-1.5 quarts of wort. It's a different process from stirring, the action comes from the amount of foam produced. Using pure oxygen optimizes yield compared to air, but letting fresh air in from time to time works too.

After you've grown as much yeast in your vessel as possible given the used method, cold crash in fridge for a day (or 2) until clear starter beer is on top of a creamy yeast cake on the bottom. Pour off (decant) most of the starter beer, leaving a little behind to swirl up into a slurry. Save the slurry in small mason jars or make another starter with it, or a portion of it, depending on how much you want to grow.

Those calculators will help with determining how much starter wort and size vessel you'd need for each step. Keep an eye on growth rate (or final cell count) to optimize your process parameters.

Yeast is never "washed" (or "rinsed," which would be the more appropriate term) when making starters. The yeast remains as clean as it can get, as long as you keep good sanitation practices.

What kind of strain did you get? How much of it?

 

[flars]

Lots of good info thanks! I like the idea of freezing some and that makes complete sense to not under pitch.
I do not have a stir plate.

When you say a step starter, Do you mean, make a starter, then before using it, double that up again?

Can I wash and reuse that yeast after do the above said steps? or is it getting weaker and weaker

Each step up will require a larger volume of starter wort to achieve optimum propagation of new yeast cells. The volume increase will be more than double in size if you use all the yeast propagated in the previous step.

You don't need to use all of the yeast cells propagated for the next step. You can harvest some of the cells and use the remainder in the new starter wort. Reduces the need for huge containers to make a starter and cold crash in the frig to drop the yeast out faster than letting it sit a room temperature.

A well made starter will propagate yeast cells as viable as the cells in the original package the day it was filled. The cells do not get weaker.

 

[IslandLizard]

Why not make a 5 gallon batch of something low IBU low ABV and no dry hops. Just some lawnmower beer of some variety. Then split the cake from that batch into mason jars. Bam you have your yeast for multiple other batches and some tasty lawnmower beer to drink while you brew them

A great method, yes!

I would still prefer to overbuilt the starter and save some out for later, for when the reused yeast cake is "used up." More so with difficult to obtain or rarer strains.

 

[eric19312]

That is a great idea actually!! I love to dry hop and I don't think that would wash well.
Have you tried the Centennial blonde by BierMuncher ? That's my go to lawnmower beer!

Why are you planning to wash the yeast? This does not need to be that complicated. Make that batch of beer. When you rack the beer into keg or bottling bucket leave about 1/2 inch of beer on top of the cake. Gently swirl that beer back into the cake. Sanitize the lip of your fermentor and dump the cake into about 4 quart size mason jars. Cover, label and refridgerate. Over 24 hours or so the yeast will settle back down and the beer will sit on top. That beer on top protects the yeast.

Also don't tell anyone but frequently I reuse yeast from dry hopped batches. Maybe not a hugely dry hopped NEIPA but an APA that got 4oz in a 15 gallon batch? Sure why not. That 15 gallon batch produces about 3 trillion cells. That is enough yeast for 5 15 gallon batches of beer at 600 billion cells per batch. If I use 600 billion cells in my follow on batch I am carrying over less than an ounce of dry hop. That is dry hop that has already given most of its flavor to the previous beer. The next beer is almost certainly another hoppy style and nobody is going to be able to notice that tiny flavor contribution from that bit of dry hops. And yes I've heard the dry hop may be bad for the yeast health but I just have not seen that in my own experience. YMMV

 

[IslandLizard]

This! ^

 

[alexipas]

^^^Brilliant! so much good advice here. I think there are very specific ways to make amazing beer....but I am far from a perfectionist so I love this method!

 

[alexipas]

A great method, yes!

I would still prefer to overbuilt the starter and save some out for later, for when the reused yeast cake is "used up." More so with difficult to obtain or rarer strains.

100% agreed

 

[IslandLizard]

So, what yeast strain is it?

 

[alexipas]

This one is called Cali Ale. Its from Escarpment Laboratories in Guelph Ontario. I am so new with yeast I don't know more than that. The guy at the shop told me it has about 8x more active yeast than white labs. its a little 4oz jar

 

[IslandLizard]

This one is called Cali Ale. Its from Escarpment Laboratories in Guelph Ontario. I am so new with yeast I don't know more than that. The guy at the shop told me it has about 8x more active yeast than white labs. its a little 4oz jar

Per Escarpment Laboratories in Guelph, Ontario, each 125mL bottle contains 180-200 billion live yeast cells at packaging. Use those numbers in your yeast calculator for initial cell count.
Their use by date is set to 3 months, but I'm quite sure a 2 liter starter will bring a 6 months old yeast, that wasn't mishandled, back close to original specs.
With the little bottles, after a good swirl to homogenize, you could pitch only half into a 2 liter starter wort and save the rest for another starter later.

To compare, Escarpment Laboratories' yeast cultures initial cell count is around twice the amount as White Labs' PurePitch sleeves or Wyeast Smack Packs, not 8x.
WhiteLabs claims their PurePitch packs to retain extremely high vitality over the first 3 months after packaging, as high as 90%, also resulting in relatively higher cell counts after 6 months, the recommended use by date.

 

[alexipas]

Per Escarpment Laboratories in Guelph, Ontario, each 125mL bottle contains 180-200 billion live yeast cells at packaging. Use those numbers in your yeast calculator for initial cell count.
Their use by date is set to 3 months, but I'm quite sure a 2 liter starter will bring a 6 months old yeast, that wasn't mishandled, back close to original specs.
With the little bottles, after a good swirl to homogenize, you could pitch only half into a 2 liter starter wort and save the rest for another starter later.

To compare, Escarpment Laboratories' yeast cultures initial cell count is around twice the amount as White Labs' PurePitch sleeves or Wyeast Smack Packs, not 8x.
WhiteLabs claims their PurePitch packs to retain extremely high vitality over the first 3 months after packaging, as high as 90%, also resulting in relatively higher cell counts after 6 months, the recommended use by date.

Wow you are a wizard!!! Thanks my friend, that is amazing and accurate. I was quite nervous about how to start this, but now feel really comfortable! I will definitely be using only half to start and then doing a basic wash reuse for a batch as well.

I think with your advice I will really be able to step my brews up. I've struggle to get FG down on most batches (.015 when aiming for .010) I am sure that's because I have only ever poured dry yeast directly in.

 

[IslandLizard]

Wow you are a wizard!!! Thanks my friend, that is amazing and accurate. I was quite nervous about how to start this, but now feel really comfortable! I will definitely be using only half to start and then doing a basic wash reuse for a batch as well.

I think with your advice I will really be able to step my brews up. I've struggle to get FG down on most batches (.015 when aiming for .010) I am sure that's because I have only ever poured dry yeast directly in.

Not wizard, lizard!

As @eric19312 already pointed out here, there's no need to wash your yeast after a batch. You stand to lose half your cells while removing some or most of the trub. Most trub won't affect your next batch, except for extreme cases, but low cell count will. Just follow his directions and you can brew 4 batches from what you harvested from your first with this yeast. If that yeast is less than 2 months old you probably won't even need to make a starter first, just pitch the jar after pouring off the old beer from the top. Reused yeast is expected to perform as well and often better than the first round. Make sure your sanitation is good, so no infection can creep in.

On a side note, if you still happen to do secondaries, you can save yourself the hassle and time, just skip them. Except in some rarer cases, there is no benefit to them, but can cause problems such as increased risk of infection, oxidation, under-attenuation, etc.

A good healthy yeast pitch with adequate cell count can help attenuating your beer better. So does good aeration (or oxygenation) right before pitching. Yeast needs oxygen at that time to grow new healthy cells. Right after fermentation starts, oxygen becomes detrimental to beer, so avoid any of it then.

There are other factors that could cause higher FG than expected, but they don't belong in a yeast forum.

 

[alexipas]

Not wizard, lizard!

As @eric19312 already pointed out here, there's no need to wash your yeast after a batch. You stand to lose half your cells while removing some or most of the trub. Most trub won't affect your next batch, except for extreme cases, but low cell count will. Just follow his directions and you can brew 4 batches from what you harvested from your first with this yeast. If that yeast is less than 2 months old you probably won't even need to make a starter first, just pitch the jar after pouring off the old beer from the top. Reused yeast is expected to perform as well and often better than the first round. Make sure your sanitation is good, so no infection can creep in.

On a side note, if you still happen to do secondaries, you can save yourself the hassle and time, just skip them. Except in some rarer cases, there is no benefit to them, but can cause problems such as increased risk of infection, oxidation, under-attenuation, etc.

A good healthy yeast pitch with adequate cell count can help attenuating your beer better. So does good aeration (or oxygenation) right before pitching. Yeast needs oxygen at that time to grow new healthy cells. Right after fermentation starts, oxygen becomes detrimental to beer, so avoid any of it then.

There are other factors that could cause higher FG than expected, but they don't belong in a yeast forum.

Haha!!

This is exactly what im going to do. My first post seems a little crazy now to be splitting up a starter when I can pull 4 good batches of yeast this way!

And I totally agree, I never use a secondary. Maybe if I were to make a lager I would consider it... but then I would need to drink lager haha.

also thanks I do need to investigate an aeration stone

 

[IslandLizard]

Many of us prefer to have a backup of fresh, unused yeast of each strain we use. So we build a large starter to keep some in reserve. We overbuild starters along the way, pitching most and leave some behind for the next batch to make a starter from, etc. Although yeast can be reused for many generations, certain qualities can degrade. For example, I had an ESB yeast (WLP002) that would drop out quickly after fermentation leaving clear beer behind. Over the years, the yeast would flocculate less and less, to the point I couldn't get clear beer anymore. Time to get a fresh pack! Or unfreeze one of the backups. But it takes a week or 2 to get an ample supply again from a 20ml frozen batch.

Secondaries or lagering vessels have their use, as long as you can transfer the beer without infecting or oxidizing it. Leaving a small headspace is important, or flushing the headspace with CO2. It's not something beginning brewers should do, as it takes time to develop good techniques to rack properly. But most if not all beer kits still include pertinent instructions to rack to secondary after an arbitrary time, which is totally unneeded in 99.99% of all kits sold. Even a Lager can be kept on the original yeast while it lagers for 3-8 weeks.

You can aerate wort in many ways, do a search. I used pouring back and forth through a strainer or a large whisk for many years before investing in an oxygen setup 2 years ago.

 

[eric19312]

WhiteLabs claims their PurePitch packs to retain extremely high vitality over the first 3 months after packaging, as high as 90%, also resulting in relatively higher cell counts after 6 months, the recommended use by date.

Has anyone else noticed the lack of information about the viability of liquid yeast from different manufacturers over time? I wish yeast companies would tell us how many cells are in the container when packaged AND how many cells would be expected to still be viable in that package at its "best before" date assuming it had been stored under refrigeration. White labs CLAIMS their yeast retains viability longer in their pure pitch pouches...how am I supposed to use that information? None of the calculators I've seen care whether the liquid yeast is a pure pitch pouch, a smack pack or other container.

 

[IslandLizard]

Has anyone else noticed the lack of information about the viability of liquid yeast from different manufacturers over time? I wish yeast companies would tell us how many cells are in the container when packaged AND how many cells would be expected to still be viable in that package at its "best before" date assuming it had been stored under refrigeration. White labs CLAIMS their yeast retains viability longer in their pure pitch pouches...how am I supposed to use that information? None of the calculators I've seen care whether the liquid yeast is a pure pitch pouch, a smack pack or other container.

Have you checked WL's site lately? They did extensive research on their Pure Pitch packs' vitality. It's quite impressive. They claim the lack of oxygen during packaging, and beyond, is key to that.

So tweak the yeast calcs to show a more recent date that corresponds with WL prediction of viable cells.