Cream Ale Originally Ale or Lager Yeast?

[Slim M]

I’ve read several places that Cream Ale came about as an attempt for ale brewers to compete with Pale Lagers in the early days. If this is true and not urban legend wouldn’t you think they probably used the house strain yeast they had and went with a lighter colored grain bill?

So many Cream ale recipes I see use Lager Yeast at the temp range of steam beer. What do you think is more historically accurate for the early days of Cream Ale?

 

[mac_1103]

Pretty sure that, historically, Cream Ales were top fermented. Otherwise, historically, they wouldn't have been called ales.

 

[Slim M]

Most likely English I would guess.

 

[AmarikinBrew]

You prolly saw Little King's cream ale and the info that they used Lager yeast at ale temps.
Then there is the "California Lager Yeast" steam beer which further cornfuses everything being used in homebrew cream ales.

 

[Slim M]

You prolly saw Little King's cream ale and the info that they used Lager yeast at ale temps.
Then there is the "California Lager Yeast" steam beer which further cornfuses everything being used in homebrew cream ales.

Yep.

 

[dmtaylor]

My understanding is that cream ale is supposedly a lager-like beer brewed with the house ale yeast. Fizzy yellow ale, easy drinking. Should serve as a good crossover beer for the Budmilloors masses. People in Wisconsin pretend to love the Spotted Cow, which is an unusually hazy version (they're supposed to be clear).

Or maybe I'm totally wrong. But I think I'm right. Probably. Maybe.

EDIT: Looks like I'm right.

https://www.bjcp.org/style/2021/1/1C/cream-ale/

Meant to emulate American and Canadian "pilsners" (not European).

 

[Dland]

I usually use US-05 fermented at around 68F for the cream ale and similar recipes I brew. I brew a lot of lagers as well, and have tried various yeasts and fermentation temperatures with cream ale type grain bills. The ale yeast produces a good cream ale result in in ale time frame, with beer ready to serve in 3-4 weeks after brewing as opposed the 3 or 4 months for cold fermented lagers.

The ale yeast produces and easy to drink beer that is refreshing. It does not have the flavor and subtleties of a cold fermented and conditioned lager, but is somewhat easier to brew as it takes little less attention and a lot less time once it is in the fermentor.

 

[Slim M]

My understanding is that cream ale is supposedly a lager-like beer brewed with the house ale yeast. Fizzy yellow ale, easy drinking. Should serve as a good crossover beer for the Budmilloors masses. People in Wisconsin pretend to love the Spotted Cow, which is an unusually hazy version (they're supposed to be clear).

Or maybe I'm totally wrong. But I think I'm right. Probably. Maybe.

EDIT: Looks like I'm right.

https://www.bjcp.org/style/2021/1/1C/cream-ale/

Meant to emulate American and Canadian "pilsners" (not European).

Hmm! Which came first the Cream Ale or Bjcp. Bless their heart!


Just Joking everyone don’t scorch me. I’m a natural smart

You thinking probably English ale strains in light yellow wort with some type of cold conditioning was the norm back then? I guess basically CAP type with English Ale strains maybe?

 

[AmarikinBrew]

Cream ales were made by poorer taverns that could not afford expensive ice in the 1800s.

Meant to compete with the big city lagers and pilsners gaining in popularity and, basically, storefronts
that had access to ice houses, which were usually right next door.

So basically, use any Classic American Pilsner recipe, which has a percentage of grainy 6-ROW, and use a CLEAN LAGER LIKE ale yeast.
Brewed and served at tavern temps 60-70F.

For the German equivalent, see Dampfbier.

 

[dmtaylor]

FWIW, I get clean lager-like beer from S-04.

As an unplanned coincidence, right now I've got a batch going with Nottingham. We'll see how that turns out in the coming days and weeks, it's near finished already just 24 hours after pitching, at 70 F (21 C). The temperature isn't on purpose (I'm just letting it ride), but it was brewed using 50% Briess 2-row and 50% Best pilsner malt so it's kind-of sort-of a "cream ale", personally I'm calling it an "English summer ale" with English hops (and yeast of course).

 

[Slim M]

FWIW, I get clean lager-like beer from S-04.

As an unplanned coincidence, right now I've got a batch going with Nottingham. We'll see how that turns out in the coming days and weeks, it's near finished already just 24 hours after pitching, at 70 F (21 C). The temperature isn't on purpose (I'm just letting it ride), but it was brewed using 50% Briess 2-row and 50% Best pilsner malt so it's kind-of sort-of a "cream ale", personally I'm calling it an "English summer ale" with English hops (and yeast of course).

What kind of attenuation you get with S-04?

 

[dmtaylor]

What kind of attenuation you get with S-04?

Average 79% (range 77-82%). That's an average of my last 5 batches.

 

[Slim M]

Average 79% (range 77-82%). That's an average of my last 5 batches.

May I ask your mash temp & ferm temp to achieve 80% attenuation? I haven’t used S-04 in many years but been considering it for a Cream Ale.

I saw some post recently about acidity & twang with S-04 & even low attenuation I don’t recall that, maybe something has changed.

 

[dmtaylor]

May I ask your mash temp & ferm temp to achieve 80% attenuation? I haven’t used S-04 in many years but been considering it for a Cream Ale.

I saw some post recently about acidity & twang with S-04 & even low attenuation I don’t recall that, maybe something has changed.

Instances with 80% or higher attenuation were mashed at 148-149 F for at least 60 minutes. Fermentation temperatures were 65-73 F (pretty warm).

S-04 suffered from quality control problems in the past. HOWEVER, Fermentis appears to have cleaned up their game because the quality in the last few years has been much better and more consistent, no longer having the old acidity/twang thing that so many people have complained about. I would encourage anybody with such claims to try the apparently new & improved S-04, it's very good. I like it as much as or even more than US-05, in fact I recall saying not long ago that from here on out, I will be using S-04 instead wherever I had been thinking of using US-05 in the past. I've also been using BRY-97 more often and it is also a pretty good yeast but I do like S-04 the best of these.