Cream Ale Comments?

[JKoroniak]

I've been pondering over a cream ale recipe for some time now. I've seen a lot of Vanilla Cream Ale's out there, and I wanted to take this one in a more traditional direction. Where I am the cream ale selection is pretty weak, I've been trying some Cameron's Cream Ale for inspiration. What I wanted to go for was a malty aroma, low hop aroma, decent head retention and body, and a really clean and dry finish. This is what I came up with:

7 lb 8 oz 6 row
2 lb flaked corn
1 lb Dextrin Carapils Malt
8 oz Crystal 10L

Mash for 60m at 154 F

0.5 oz Magnum at 60m
0.25 oz NZ Pacifica at 30m
0.25 oz NZ Pacifica at 15m
0.25 oz NZ Pacifica at 5m

OG: 1.050
FG: 1.012

A few specific questions:

1. I heard that 6-row was more "authentic" in terms of pre-prohibition cream ales, can any one confirm/deny?
2. How much corn should I use? I found most recipes had 10% of the bill, while others had as much as 30%. How will corn affect the taste?

I considered adding 4 oz of Honey Malt, but later decided to try the brew without first.

Any/all suggestions or comments are very much appreciated!

Thanks

 

[BigEd]

I've been pondering over a cream ale recipe for some time now. I've seen a lot of Vanilla Cream Ale's out there, and I wanted to take this one in a more traditional direction. Where I am the cream ale selection is pretty weak, I've been trying some Cameron's Cream Ale for inspiration. What I wanted to go for was a malty aroma, low hop aroma, decent head retention and body, and a really clean and dry finish. This is what I came up with:

7 lb 8 oz 6 row
2 lb flaked corn
1 lb Dextrin Carapils Malt
8 oz Crystal 10L

Mash for 60m at 154 F

0.5 oz Magnum at 60m
0.25 oz NZ Pacifica at 30m
0.25 oz NZ Pacifica at 15m
0.25 oz NZ Pacifica at 5m

OG: 1.050
FG: 1.012

A few specific questions:

1. I heard that 6-row was more "authentic" in terms of pre-prohibition cream ales, can any one confirm/deny?
2. How much corn should I use? I found most recipes had 10% of the bill, while others had as much as 30%. How will corn affect the taste?

I considered adding 4 oz of Honey Malt, but later decided to try the brew without first.

Any/all suggestions or comments are very much appreciated!

Thanks

Good call on leaving out the honey malt. I would also cut back on the crystal & dextrin and bring down the mash temp to 148-150F. Pick one crystal and use about 1/2 lb. That combined with the low mash temp will accomplish a clean finish while still retaining a little body in the beer. Re six-row it's up to you. Either is fine and most people won't be able to tell the difference. Historically six-row was used because that's what they had and the corn adjunct helped dilute it's high protein content. As for the corn I think you're in a good spot at roughly 18%. The modern North American mega brews use very high percentages of corn and rice adjuncts, maybe 45%. At 15-20% you get a little corn flavor but you still know there is some barley malt in the beer. When you get into 30% and up range the beer really gets too bland IMO, unless you are into a BMC profile. I would suggest simplifying the hop schedule. Try two additions, one for the full boil and one at 15-20 minutes for a little flavor & aroma. Commercial versions of cream ale are pretty low in IBU, maybe 15-18. With the higher malt content and bigger OG I would shoot for low to mid 20s on this one.

 

[JKoroniak]

Good call on leaving out the honey malt. I would also cut back on the crystal & dextrin and bring down the mash temp to 148-150F. Pick one crystal and use about 1/2 lb. That combined with the low mash temp will accomplish a clean finish while still retaining a little body in the beer. Re six-row it's up to you. Either is fine and most people won't be able to tell the difference. Historically six-row was used because that's what they had and the corn adjunct helped dilute it's high protein content. As for the corn I think you're in a good spot at roughly 18%. The modern North American mega brews use very high percentages of corn and rice adjuncts, maybe 45%. At 15-20% you get a little corn flavor but you still know there is some barley malt in the beer. When you get into 30% and up range the beer really gets too bland IMO, unless you are into a BMC profile. I would suggest simplifying the hop schedule. Try two additions, one for the full boil and one at 15-20 minutes for a little flavor & aroma. Commercial versions of cream ale are pretty low in IBU, maybe 15-18. With the higher malt content and bigger OG I would shoot for low to mid 20s on this one.

Thanks for the advice Ed. Are you suggesting that I only use a 1/2 lb of crystal 10L and leave the Dextrin out? Or just reduce the Dextrin to 1/2 lb like the crystal already is? I get how the lower temp will provide a clean finish, but I'm confused about how I'm still retaining some body in the beer. Perhaps I'm doomed asking for both bigger body and a cleaner finish in the same brew.

With the hop schedule as-is I'm around 21-22 IBU's, but I would still be up for simplification. I think the malt aroma really needs to carry through to the finished product. Any thoughts on my hop selection? I still haven't had the opportunity to try many different hops since I'm somewhat new to homebrewing, so any suggestions are appreciated.

Again, thanks for the advice!

 

[Yooper]

Good call on leaving out the honey malt. I would also cut back on the crystal & dextrin and bring down the mash temp to 148-150F. Pick one crystal and use about 1/2 lb. That combined with the low mash temp will accomplish a clean finish while still retaining a little body in the beer. Re six-row it's up to you. Either is fine and most people won't be able to tell the difference. Historically six-row was used because that's what they had and the corn adjunct helped dilute it's high protein content. As for the corn I think you're in a good spot at roughly 18%. The modern North American mega brews use very high percentages of corn and rice adjuncts, maybe 45%. At 15-20% you get a little corn flavor but you still know there is some barley malt in the beer. When you get into 30% and up range the beer really gets too bland IMO, unless you are into a BMC profile. I would suggest simplifying the hop schedule. Try two additions, one for the full boil and one at 15-20 minutes for a little flavor & aroma. Commercial versions of cream ale are pretty low in IBU, maybe 15-18. With the higher malt content and bigger OG I would shoot for low to mid 20s on this one.

Yeah, I agree.

Here's my cream ale recipe: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f66/ag-corn-cream-ale-33242/

You want light, easy drinking, but great flavor.

 

[lumpher]

i'm using 6-row right now since that's what the lhbs had to sell me when i needed a bag of grain, but it does make a "creamier" cream ale. BigEd is talking some serious sense on this one, and should be listened to. no dextrin needed, btw

 

[BigEd]

Are you suggesting that I only use a 1/2 lb of crystal 10L and leave the Dextrin out? Or just reduce the Dextrin to 1/2 lb like the crystal already is? I get how the lower temp will provide a clean finish, but I'm confused about how I'm still retaining some body in the beer.

Choose either the light crystal or the dextrin and just use a half pound. The little touch of unfermentables from the small amount of specialty malt will give you a little extra body and the low mash temp will give you a well-attenuated beer with a dry finish.

Any thoughts on my hop selection? I still haven't had the opportunity to try many different hops since I'm somewhat new to homebrewing, so any suggestions are appreciated.

Again, thanks for the advice!

I'm not familiar with the Pacifica hops. Magnum are fine for bittering. My choice for the second hop would be either a modest alpha English or German hop or a derivative thereof. Styrian Goldings, Kent Goldings, Fuggles or Willamete on the English side or Hallertau, Spalt, Saaz, Mt. Hood, Sterling or Liberty on the German/Continental side.