Cost of all-grain brewing vs MrBeer vs buying beer at the store

[jtratcliff]

If you want to test drive the savings, Do a 2.5 gal AG BIAB one day. You could even make it a SMaSH to simplify things if you want but there are plenty of simple recipes.

Find a recipe on here for a 5 gal. batch (I recommend BierMuncher's Centennial Blonde or Yooper's Haus Ale for tasty simple recipes to start with). Cut all ingredients in half, make a list then go to the LHBS and price it out. Grain, hops, yeast. Also look at online shops.
MoreBeer grain prices beat my LHBS as long as I buy $50 worth at a time.

Now consider that you might need a bigger pot to do full volume BIAB. 2.5 gal. post boil might need 4+ gal of starting water. Absorption by the grain, boil off, and kettle losses to trub, etc. So say a 5-6 gal. pot. You can get by with 2 smaller pots if you dunk sparge instead of full volume. But an aluminum kettle can be had cheaply (I just scored a 15 gal aluminum tamale steamer for $25 from a local grocery chain)

While at the LHBS get a hydrometer and thermometer.

Pick up a paint strainer strainer bag from the hardware store and you are ready to brew stove-top AG BIAB. Ferment in your Mr Beer LBK. Look for the Stickied thread about it.

After 5-6 Mr. Beer batches, I did one single 5gal full boil extract batch before going straight to AG BIAB.

This will give you an idea if AG is right for you without too much initial outlay of $$.

Then consider that you can get the grain & hops about half the price of the LHBS if you are someplace where you can buy grain by the 50-55lb sack and hops by the lb or get in on group buys (at least that's the case for my LHBS prices).

Or you can also do the above as an extract batch (which will be more expensive than AG but closer to what you're used to doing from a Mr. Beer kit), where you buy the LME/DME, any steeping grains, hops, and yeast. This should still be cheaper than a Mr. Beer kit.

 

[MrHadack]

You've been posting quite a bit today about making the move up from Mr. Beer. Let me see if I can help you get an understanding of whether or not this is right for you, and if so, what path you should take.

First, in one thread, you said you and your wife enjoy the process of brewing. I've never used Mr. Beer before, but had similar kits like it when I started 20 years ago. If my understanding is correct, Mr. Beer is essentially a process where you heat water, mix in a canister of hopped dry extract, boil, cool, add yeast, and wait.

Is the beer good? Yeah, I guess... it's beer. But what did you actually do? Sometimes I like drawing the comparison to making brownies from scratch (all grain brewing) and using a boxed mix (Mr. Beer). With the latter you just empty the box into a bowl, toss in an egg and some water, mix it up, and put it in the oven. Did you make brownies, or did you just assemble someone else's brownies?

When you bake from scratch, it takes some knowledge of the chemistry involved, designing a recipe, putting your own signature on it. Those are your brownies. You made them, not just assembled them from parts someone gave you.

So it depends what your motivation is for brewing. If you like the process, and want to get more involved and have more input into how a recipe is designed and turns out in the end, then partial grain, brew-in-a-bag, or all grain might be right for you.

Does that make any sense?

 

[MrHadack]

Oh, and to answer your question in the shortest way possible about what to expect:

More fun, more beer, better quality, and a fierce sense of pride about your accomplishments.

 

[Clonefan94]

The big difference in going from Mr. Beer to regular extract brewing, is going to be doing a 60 minute boil. Where you are adding your hops based on the recipe.

The other big thing is the formulation of the recipe. Once you get into steeping grains, doing a partial mash or especially going all-grain, you'll be amazed at the tweaks you can do to a beer to really make it your own. Heck just steeping grains alone and adding that to the wort, imo, makes a huge difference in the final product.

Personally, I think you'll find you enjoy it even more.

 

[monsteroyd]

I ferment in Mr Beer little brown kegs, so I still do 2.25 gal batches. I boil a gallon of water with 1 lb of extract and do my hop boils in an 8 qt pot on a little heat plate. I don't like bitter and am not making IPA's etc, so I can get by with a 20 min (or less sometime) boils of an once of 5%AA hops. I then cool the wort in a water/ice bath in the sink, and pour that over 1 gallon of cold water in the LBK. Then I top up if needed to 8.5 qts. Works great for me, and I make pretty good beer, too. I have added steeped specialty grains and done small partial mashes also with this set up.

I do extract because of time constraints, I rarely have time for a 4-6 hour brew day, and really don't have the ability to boil much more than a gallon of wort. It works for me, and like I said I get pretty good beer out of it.

When you go all-grain, you can make even more customized beer cause you have a much wider selection of malt to choose from, however you have to add in the mashing effort and time. So even though the ultimate in this hobby is all grain without a doubt, you can still have fun and experiment with hops and yeast doing extract.

Heck I did 50-some batches of mr beer and brew demon hopped malt extract before I started doing hop boils with extracts. And those were all pretty good beers.

So I guess I am progressing to all grain, but I am not ready to make that switch yet. My advice is to try a partial mash with a Mr Beer Patriot 'Lager' HME (just a good base) to start out and see if you are ready to head down that road. Try a different yeast with a Mr Beer HME. There are things you can do even with a MR Beer HME that will teach you tons.

Monty

 

[Yuri_Rage]

Multiple similar threads by same OP merged.

 

[RukusDM]

Everyone here brings good points regarding making beer vs purchasing. If you want to save money and like beer you probably need to buy it. You may save a few dollars making beer but it is not substantial.

The more important thing is you can make beer that fits your taste. You can make a version of your own beer. More importantly you are doing something together as you mentioned that you 2 do.

There is always a great feeling when you drink a good beer that you worked so hard to produce. I don't think you can put a dollar value on that especially when you are only talking a few dollars a case difference.

 

[monsteroyd]

I do not brew at home to save money. I do it to make beer that tastes just like I want it, and it also happens to be way better beer than BMC, and as good as the most expensive craft beer I can buy.

Basically for me it isn't the money, it's the beer. I really like my beer, and the people I give it to like it as well. And you can't buy my beer anywhere.

Monty

 

[kevron]

What I am saying is buy one of the big cans of Coopers or Muntons brand. Coopers actually owns Mr.Beer, but their cans are twice the size. So if you buy one of the Coopers cans, and any additives you need for that brew. You simply split it in half. So instead of using the full 3.75lbs can of Coopers, I used half of it. And I used half of the 2lbs of LME. I weighed out half and used half. The extra is sealed and in the fridge. When I bottle this batch, I will start brewing the second half of this kit. I use an oz scale so it is a more precise split. Otherwise guessing you likely wont get an even split.

I just made it like any other Liquid Extract kit. I just used half of the ingredients at a time since the LBK is 2.5gal instead of 5. I haven't had any issues with head room either.

 

[zzzman74]

Kevron, where do I find the exact recipes and steps to make a coopers batch the way you've described? I think your idea is what I'd like to try next.

PM sent

 

[RPCidery]

When I started with winemaking, I had been slowly accumulating equipment from Craigslist and yard sales for some time. There was no extra cost to transition to cider, and it was like $30 for a brand new Graniteware kettle for beer. Feeling rich one day, I sprung $48 for a new 6-gallon carboy.
So far, I just use extracts with a mini-mash or steeping grains, and it costs about $28 for extract, grains, yeast and water for a solid 5 gallon finished batch.
The beers I like cost between $3 and $8 for a half-liter or bomber, so it adds up quick.
It's pretty cold and wet here in the PNW, so the time used for brewing or cider/winemaking is just time I would have spent surfing the 'net or watching TV.

 

[jtratcliff]

where do I find the exact recipes and steps

look at the recipes forum... or google for recipes. Seriously, try Biermuncher's centennial blonde:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f66/centennial-blonde-simple-4-all-grain-5-10-gall-42841/

Look at post #10 for the extract version. Google how to covert DME to LME so you're more Mr. Beer like.


Read Palmer's "How to Brew" (1st edition is online for free: http://www.howtobrew.com/) for specific steps and terminology. Look at the stickied threads here to see how other people do it.

Very similar to what you do for Mr Beer. You boil your extract for some amount of time usually an hour but can be less if you don't need to have the hops in for a full 60 mins. (Centennial Blonde has a 45 minute addition, so you would only need to boil for 45 minutes). Throw your hops in at the right time(s). after this point everything is the same as Mr. Beer.

 

[dryboroughbrewing]

If you discount my gear then I've saved a boatload. If you don't well.... it's shiny.

 

[FunCat1828]

If you discount my gear then I've saved a boatload. If you don't well.... it's shiny.

+1

When you are drinking craft beers at $15 a bottle, and I can make 5 gallons of a similar bourbon stout for $40 I am saving a ton if you don't take into account the sunk coat of my gear.

It's a hobby I enjoy with a couple of close friends. I can't put a price on that!

 

[Transamguy77]

I didn't read the whole thread, after you said to focus on the cost of ingredients I'm gonna put in my 2 cents.

I started with Mr beer myself, I now make 10 gallon batches for about $40 or less which is 4.5 cases or less than 40 cents a bottle. I buy in bulk, reuse yeast and grow my own hops.

You said you like the brewing process but Mr Beer and AG are completely different, the time difference alone is like 4+ hours, don't get me wrong I love AG but just do some lurking on YouTube and watch some AG vids I know it helped me.

 

[RM-MN]

I didn't read the whole thread, after you said to focus on the cost of ingredients I'm gonna put in my 2 cents.

I started with Mr beer myself, I now make 10 gallon batches for about $40 or less which is 4.5 cases or less than 40 cents a bottle. I buy in bulk, reuse yeast and grow my own hops.

You said you like the brewing process but Mr Beer and AG are completely different, the time difference alone is like 4+ hours, don't get me wrong I love AG but just do some lurking on YouTube and watch some AG vids I know it helped me.

No, the time difference on your system for you is 4+ hours. Some of us use different methods and different equipment and can shave that difference by quite an amount.

 

[MotorcycleMatt]

No, the time difference on your system for you is 4+ hours. Some of us use different methods and different equipment and can shave that difference by quite an amount.

this, biab no sparge is so easy and much more time efficient

 

[bajaedition]

I never started this hobby to save money, I started it because I already was a wine maker. This is just a offshoot of that
Cost? eh 50 cents to 75 cents a bottle. Not much of a savings considering the time I put into it, or my investment in equipment.

But value, I am all over it. always gaving a couple of beers on tap
not having to run out and get another sixer of some craft brew

Pride of being able to serve my beer

What can be said? if I thought I was saving money money brewing beer, I would have to say no. to much personal time invested.

But if I was satisfied with the hobby? OH YEA

it is just to much fun

 

[fearwig]

What can be said? if I thought I was saving money money brewing beer, I would have to say no. to much personal time invested.

I get that sentiment, but I think people go too far when they consider payment for their time. If we felt we had to get paid for everything we did in our off time to make it worthwhile, we'd probably stay in bed.

If you are brewing beer instead of working a second job and hoping to make that work out for you, I guess you should take this into consideration. Otherwise it's a pretty fair assumption you'd be sitting on your duff, and given that, it's a value.

 

[Transamguy77]

No, the time difference on your system for you is 4+ hours. Some of us use different methods and different equipment and can shave that difference by quite an amount.

You are absolutely correct, the time it takes me is different than other people. What I was getting at is if you follow the Mr Beer directions it takes about a half hour, making beer AG is significantly longer somewhere in the neighbor hood of 4 hours give or take a half hour. The processes are completely different and I was just trying to make the OP aware of that.

 

[Rhumbline]

I get that sentiment, but I think people go too far when they consider payment for their time. If we felt we had to get paid for everything we did in our off time to make it worthwhile, we'd probably stay in bed.

If you are brewing beer instead of working a second job and hoping to make that work out for you, I guess you should take this into consideration. Otherwise it's a pretty fair assumption you'd be sitting on your duff, and given that, it's a value.

Exactly!

"Lost opportunity wages" is a false economic model. If you are paid hourly, and could get paid for 24 hours a day then you've got a reason to count the time.

Most of us don't.

I don't expect this hobby to pay me any more than I expect having a sailboat to pay me.

More to the point of the OP's question, I brew extract recipes. I know that I could buy beer cheaper than what it costs me to brew, but I couldn't buy comparable beer for less than it costs me to brew.

 

[fearwig]

I know that I could buy beer cheaper than what it costs me to brew, but I couldn't buy comparable beer for less than it costs me to brew.

Yeah, this is such a big point. If you can get to where you can make "fancy" beer yourself, and be satisfied or even impressed as hell with the result, you are really saving some money. For instance, Saison Dupont is usually like $12 for a 750--so nearly $6/12oz bottle. Once you work out the method (particularly fermentation), you can definitely make a beer you like as much or more for $0.50-$1/bottle. So... why the hell not? That's not a small difference at all, you're probably actually getting paid OK for your time on a 5 or 10 gallon batch, assuming you were actually going to buy 5 gallons of that beer.

5gal: 52 (bottles) * $5 (savings/btl) / 8hrs (est) = $32.50/hr
10gal: 104 (bottles) * $5 (savings/btl) / 10hrs (est) = $42/hr

I think that's grossly pessimistic on both per-bottle costs and hours spent, you could probably "make" closer to $75-100/hr if your method is down or your scale is bigger. I sure as heck don't really spend $52 on ingredients for a batch of saison (more like $15). Obviously the brew day doesn't take 8hrs, but I'm both rounding up and thinking of all the time I spend poking my fermenters with a stick and sniffing them and stuff.

Many impressive beers don't have large ingredient costs, even if you don't buy hops or malt in bulk and use extract (though I think you start to come closer to parity with e.g. a big DIPA).

 

[bobby4]

If I ignore the cost of my time, I save a LOT of money all-grain brewing. I recently switched to 10 gallon batches and save even more. Of course I would home brew anyway, but the cost savings is a bonus of this hobby. It at least pays for the equipment.

 

[Puddlethumper]

Ok, so everyone says MrBeer is just a novelty toy. I've made a few batches and other than the low alcohol content, I like the taste of the beer. Based on helpful advice here, my wife and I are planning to upgrade our hobby to extract or all grain brewing.

My question is: what differences should we expect?

Two big differences: Time and control

You give up more time to do extract and BIAB and even more for AG.
For that time you gain increasing control over the process and the finished product.

I brew for the same reasons I love to build furniture and play golf. I enjoy the process of getting better at it. These are processes that take a measure of commitment and practice to perfect (I use the term loosely because none of us will ever perfect any of them).

The economics of brewing are very simple to me. The fact that I can make excellent beer at an affordable price (even counting equipment) does nothing but make it an economically feasible hobby. I don't worry as long as we're someplace close to even.

 

[MindenMan]

Somewhere around two years ago, I brewed my first beer kit. (I love my wife) At that time I was in Pharmacy Tech School, and was so over whelmed with the possibility of making my family sick if I did anything at all wrong, no brewing for me. But, alas, I found out there are no pathogens found in beer that are harmful to humans, so a-brewing I will go. Costs, right. I made two extract kits, and for someone was clueless, (me) it wasn't great beer, but it was beer none-the-less. I compared the cost of brewing an extract batch versus AG, and the cost per batch was way cheaper, almost half the price.

I already had a 22 qt pot, bought two plastic buckets, actually four, two to make a Zapap tun, and two were just to brew. Three spigots, a hydrometer, a floating thermometer, and a lauter/sparge tun (made from two buckets), a bottling wand, and some tubing. So, four buckets from a bakery, maybe free, maybe $8.00, three spigots, $6.00, a floating thermometer, $7.00, a hydrometer, $7.00, a bottling wand, $4.00, tubing $5.00, and a $1.99 drill bit for the Zapap bucket.

You have a pasta pot, $0.00, plus $8.00, plus $6.00, plus $7.00. plus $7.00, plus $4.00, plus $5.00, plus $1.99.

$39.00 with everything bare bones needed to do AG. The last trip to my LHBS, cost me $19.85 for twenty pounds of mixed grains. With a few odds and ends I had, I made 12 gallons of 1.060 beer for $19.85.

I will say, I still use my home made Zapap tun every time I brew, and I make consistently good beer every time, sometimes I make great beer, and my 12-A Brown Porter just won a "Best In Category" in a local yearly Home Brewed Beer Contest. Am I proud?, you bet! Am I gloating over it? No, I am not. I have brewed many beers in the last year and a half, and never thought of ever entering another contest, due to the humiliation I received from my first contest scores. I was new, and I wanted to hear nice things about my beer, and they weren't worth scoring.
I have a turkey fryer setup I paid $20.00 at Wally World this Christmas. it came with a 50,000 BTU burner and a 30 qt aluminum pot. I had purchased a 40qt pot prior to buying the turkey fryer, and now I wish I had bought a 15 gallon. I got 8 gallons of 44* F water to a strong boil in what seemed like 10 minutes. My old burner would literally take an hour it seemed.

 

[kombat]

The last trip to my LHBS, cost me $19.85 for twenty pounds of mixed grains. With a few odds and ends I had, I made 12 gallons of 1.060 beer for $19.85.

While I agree with the overall sentiment of your post, I don't think you're doing the OP a service by exaggerating the cost savings so unrealistically. Those "odds and ends" you had included have a cost associated with them, and it would only be fair to include that in your total cost. Furthermore, those "odds and ends" would have to include at least another 10 pounds of grain and sugar, as well as several ounces of hops and at least 3 packets of yeast or the equivalent in DME required to build up a starter of the necessary size. Not to mention the bottlecaps or CO2 required to bottle/keg the batch.

Like I said, I agree that you can save money by brewing all-grain, but there's no need to misrepresent the savings when it's clear your numbers are unrealistic. Even buying in bulk, you cannot brew 12 gallons of 1.060 beer for $20. Admitting that it's closer to $40 doesn't harm your argument at all, but misrepresenting the savings does.

 

[RPCidery]

My most expensive extract batch so far was under $30 including sales tax. 5 gallons of a nice 6% dry stout ain't bad.

 

[Roadie]

Considering the direction we took with equipment I will NEVER recoup that in beer savings, however this is now a hobby for my boys (25 and 22) and they can participate in it as long as they'd like. It's also a chance for us to get together all in the same place and enjoy that time; can't put a price tag on that for me.

 

[RPCidery]

Considering the direction we took with equipment I will NEVER recoup that in beer savings....

Evidently you're just not drinkin' enough beer.

 

[Braufessor]

Evidently you're just not drinkin' enough beer.

Or, he has one damn fine brewing setup:rockin: