Grain bill question from a complete newbie

[Abdul Muhamed]

My wife found a used brew kit at a yardsale and came home with it. I had most of the equipment already b/c I make my own wine, and occassionally sour mash whiskey. It did have 2 six-gallon buckets (one with a spout) which were worth more than the $5 she paid for the whole setup. Came with a bottle-filler, Bottle capper, bags of caps, siphon and tube, and Brix/S.G. meter (most of which I had, but never hurts to have 2).

Don't laugh, but after having a few too many Guiness Extra Stouts, I decided to try beermaking. I sort of remember surfing MoreBeer website and buying stuff, but when the box came I was surprised by what I bought. (I said don't laugh). Anyway here is the list:
Malt - Briess Chocolate - 1 lb Milled
Malt - German Pilsner - 5 lb
Malt - German Munich - 1 lb
Malt - Weyermann Pale Wheat - 5 lb
Sterling Pellet Hops 4 oz
German Spalt Pellet Hops 1 lb

The whole experience is hazy but I seem to have tried to get stuff to make a dark Lager/Stout from the looks of things. Anyway, I'm wondering if I can actually use this stuff to make a drinkable product. I also have 5lbs of 2 row malted barley from my whiskey making, as well as about 3lbs of generic unmilled U.S. wheat...Oh, and 50lbs of cracked corn. I can mill it down no problem. I know I still have to buy Yeast, I was thinking of Safale SO-4. I don't want to get the expensive liquid yeast until I get a bit of experience.

Since this is my first attempt, I'd prefer making 1-2 gallon batch in case I screw things up. The above list cost me over $50 so I don't want to end up with a gross brew. My (sober) goal is to make something eventually akin to Guiness Extra Stout or any dark stout as I don't really like pale beer (I used to drink Coors Extra Gold Lager which was a favorite until they quit making it). I also enjoy Yueugling Lager which is about the palest brew that I drink.

 

[user 246304]

My wife found a used brew kit at a yardsale and came home with it. I had most of the equipment already b/c I make my own wine, and occassionally sour mash whiskey. It did have 2 six-gallon buckets (one with a spout) which were worth more than the $5 she paid for the whole setup. Came with a bottle-filler, Bottle capper, bags of caps, siphon and tube, and Brix/S.G. meter (most of which I had, but never hurts to have 2).

Don't laugh, but after having a few too many Guiness Extra Stouts, I decided to try beermaking. I sort of remember surfing MoreBeer website and buying stuff, but when the box came I was surprised by what I bought. (I said don't laugh). Anyway here is the list:
Malt - Briess Chocolate - 1 lb Milled
Malt - German Pilsner - 5 lb
Malt - German Munich - 1 lb
Malt - Weyermann Pale Wheat - 5 lb
Sterling Pellet Hops 4 oz
German Spalt Pellet Hops 1 lb

The whole experience is hazy but I seem to have tried to get stuff to make a dark Lager/Stout from the looks of things. Anyway, I'm wondering if I can actually use this stuff to make a drinkable product. I also have 5lbs of 2 row malted barley from my whiskey making, as well as about 3lbs of generic unmilled U.S. wheat. I know I still have to buy Yeast, I was thinking of Safale SO-4. I don't want to get the expensive liquid yeast until I get a bit of experience.

Since this is my first attempt, I'd prefer making 1-2 gallon batch in case I screw things up. The above list cost me over $50 so I don't want to end up with a gross brew. My (sober) goal is to make something eventually akin to Guiness Extra Stout or any dark stout as I don't really like pale beer (I used to drink Coors Extra Gold Lager which was a favorite until they quit making it). I also enjoy Yueugling Lager which is about the palest brew that I drink.

I could be wrong since I've never made a weizenbock, but it looks to me like that might make a nice Dunkelweizenbock.

 

[Willy]

Here's a recipe for some something dark and tasty with grains on hand. 2.1 gal batch. This is what I call a leftover batch... Usually pretty tasty but not epic good. You'll need more ingredients for a dry Irish Stout (like Marris Otter, a caro malt, flaked oats) ... But this should turn out okay I think.

4 lb two row
1/2 pound Munich
10 oz chocolate

1 oz hops 20 min boil sterling

Abv 6.3
IBU 37
SRM 35

 

[Abdul Muhamed]

Here's a recipe for some something dark and tasty with grains on hand. 2.1 gal batch. This is what I call a leftover batch... Usually pretty tasty but not epic good. You'll need more ingredients for a dry Irish Stout (like Marris Otter, a caro malt, flaked oats) ... But this should turn out okay I think.

4 lb two row
1/2 pound Munich
10 oz chocolate

1 oz hops 20 min boil sterling

Abv 6.3
IBU 37
SRM 35

Wow, thanks! Which hops would be better the Sterling or the Spalt? I prefer my brew more bitter/coffee flavor.

 

[Willy]

Wow, thanks! Which hops would be better the Sterling or the Spalt? I prefer my brew more bitter/coffee flavor.

Sterling I think

 

[Abdul Muhamed]

Sterling I think

Thanks again...does the Safale SO-4 sound reasonable? It was quite a sticker shock to see beer yeast cost vs. wine/liquor yeasts. I buy Champagne yeast for almost all my wine/whiskey for $1/pack and I see Brewers yeasts are $7-$15/pack!!!

 

[Willy]

Here's a recipe for some something dark and tasty with grains on hand. 2.1 gal batch. This is what I call a leftover batch... Usually pretty tasty but not epic good. You'll need more ingredients for a dry Irish Stout (like Marris Otter, a caro malt, flaked oats) ... But this should turn out okay I think.

4 lb two row
1/2 pound Munich
10 oz chocolate

1 oz hops 20 min boil sterling

Abv 6.3
IBU 37
SRM 35

To adjust darkness of beer ... Reduce chocolate by 1 oz. 32.5 SRM
Or reduce chocolate by 2oz - 30 SRM

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

Thanks again...does the Safale SO-4 sound reasonable? It was quite a sticker shock to see beer yeast cost vs. wine/liquor yeasts. I buy Champagne yeast for almost all my wine/whiskey for $1/pack and I see Brewers yeasts are $7-$15/pack!!!

SO4 is a really nice yeast, especially for dark beers. Get a packet here for $3 (not sure where you live, tho).

 

[Abdul Muhamed]

SO4 is a really nice yeast, especially for dark beers. Get a packet here for $3 (not sure where you live, tho).

Pennsylvania. Yeah, $3...but $8.50 with shipping. I have a rule, NEVER pay more for shipping than the item costs. I have a brew store about 40 min away, I may make a trip there. I have Amazon free shipping so I could get it for $3.5/pack if I buy 6...How long does Brewer Yeast last in a fridge? I have Champagne Yeast from 3 years ago in my fridge that still works great.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

Pennsylvania. Yeah, $3...but $8.50 with shipping. I have a rule, NEVER pay more for shipping than the item costs. I have a brew store about 40 min away, I may make a trip there. I have Amazon free shipping so I could get it for $3.5/pack if I buy 6...How long does Brewer Yeast last in a fridge? I have Champagne Yeast from 3 years ago in my fridge that still works great.

Dry yeast kept in a fridge is good for years past the "best buy" date.

 

[Abdul Muhamed]

Dry yeast kept in a fridge is good for years past the "best buy" date.

Good. I may take a chance on Amazon. I know some people say "who knows how long it sat in the warehouse" but if you get it, open it and proof it before 30 days and it is dead, they refund your money. You really don't know how long it sat in the Brew companies warehouses either...Just bugs me when a company could put a packet of dry yeast in an envelope, spend 90 cents to mail it USPS but wants to charge me $6 shipping...

 

[mac_1103]

I've bought plenty of dry yeast from online vendors including Amazon. Never had a pack that didn't work.

Just bugs me when a company could put a packet of dry yeast in an envelope, spend 90 cents to mail it USPS but wants to charge me $6 shipping

Yeah, they could just stick it in an envelope. And it could get lost or shredded on its way to the customer. There are good reasons why vendors over-package and use trackable shipping methods.

 

[Abdul Muhamed]

I disagree. Paying $5.50 shipping for a small yeast packet is robbery. Tracking for a $3 packet of yeast? If it's lost just replace it-for less money than the tracking cost-if they are charging me $3 then you know they only paid $1.50 for it wholesale. There is NO reason to charge that kind of shipping for a 1 oz flat packet.

 

[mac_1103]

Most vendors are charging you their actual shipping costs and many will discount or even waive the shipping charge on larger orders. So maybe the real question is why anyone would order one pack of yeast when the shipping charges are probably going to be the same for ten or a hundred.

Dry yeast keeps basically keeps forever unless it gets wet.

 

[Abdul Muhamed]

I know most people buy a bunch of stuff to mitigate the costs. As a total newbie, I don't want 10 packets of yeast for $30 only to find that I bought the wrong kind for what I need. They gave me the option at checkout to request "overnight delivery" for $49.50 yet I couldn't request non-tracked general delivery for 90 cents. No worries- That particilar company lost a potential customer who might have purchased future supplies from them-I ordered the 1 pack from Amazon.

As I mentioned above, it is a bit of "sticker shock" to see brew yeast prices compared to winemaking yeast prices. Sometimes I even use bread yeast in my wine. I don't think I have a sophisticated enough palat to differentiate different yeasts. The basic problem with bread yeasts was the ABV ended up lower b/c they weren't able to survive living in higher alcohol environments.
I know that for moonshine, wine, or other fermentables you can keep the sediment in a jar in the fridge after fermentation and racking and use it several more times as a starter. I must sound like a cheapskate, but I've spent too much money on new hobbies before I knew if I'd like them or not.

Anyway, thanks everyone for the help getting started, I'm sure I'll be asking more questions later. I'm going to read through the instructional posts here so I don't ask questions that have already been answered.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

First off Welcome!

After you get a few more brews in and feel comfortable with your recipes you'll start to see areas where you can save some money with bulk purchase.

It's not easy just starting out as you have more questions than answers. As you have seen here lots of folks want to help.

Check out your local home brew store. Ask them if there's a brew club near by. Working with others you can learn more and possibly do some group buys of ingredients.

I buy in bulk most of the time but only on ingredients I know I'm going to use in a reasonable amount of time. I plan my recipes so if several use the same grains I can buy them in bulk. For hops I stick with four varieties and buy one pound bags, vacuum sealing the leftovers, stored in the freezer.

You'll get there, all of us here started out similar to you. Keep learning and asking questions. Brewing is a rewarding hobby!

 

[PT934]

https://labelpeelers.com/beer-making/beer-yeast/fermentis/safale-s-04-dry-ale-yeast/

Label Peelers will put a packet of yeast in an envelope and send it USPS free.

 

[An Ankoù]

I know most people buy a bunch of stuff to mitigate the costs. As a total newbie, I don't want 10 packets of yeast for $30 only to find that I bought the wrong kind for what I need. They gave me the option at checkout to request "overnight delivery" for $49.50 yet I couldn't request non-tracked general delivery for 90 cents. No worries- That particilar company lost a potential customer who might have purchased future supplies from them-I ordered the 1 pack from Amazon.

As I mentioned above, it is a bit of "sticker shock" to see brew yeast prices compared to winemaking yeast prices. Sometimes I even use bread yeast in my wine. I don't think I have a sophisticated enough palat to differentiate different yeasts. The basic problem with bread yeasts was the ABV ended up lower b/c they weren't able to survive living in higher alcohol environments.
I know that for moonshine, wine, or other fermentables you can keep the sediment in a jar in the fridge after fermentation and racking and use it several more times as a starter. I must sound like a cheapskate, but I've spent too much money on new hobbies before I knew if I'd like them or not.

Anyway, thanks everyone for the help getting started, I'm sure I'll be asking more questions later. I'm going to read through the instructional posts here so I don't ask questions that have already been answered.

What you really need is a decent beginner's home brewing book and give it a good reading. Not sure what books are currently around in the US and you need a US author because the units of measure are different to the UK. I used to enjoy Randy Mosher, but I think you should start with something more basic and general to get a good overview of the processes involved. If I think of something, I'll get back to this thread otherwise, perhaps others could advise on titles.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

A great book, and a fun read is this one, great book that just about every brewer owns or should.

 

[Willy]

Thanks again...does the Safale SO-4 sound reasonable? It was quite a sticker shock to see beer yeast cost vs. wine/liquor yeasts. I buy Champagne yeast for almost all my wine/whiskey for $1/pack and I see Brewers yeasts are $7-$15/pack!!!

I would use an ale yeast - Nottingham or safale US-05.

 

[An Ankoù]

A great book, and a fun read is this one, great book that just about every brewer owns or should.
View attachment 860458

Yep. That's a great book. I've got copy and I've read it a couple of times. You won't go wring with Charlie.

 

[An Ankoù]

I would use an ale yeast - Nottingham or safale US-05.

S-04 is an ale yeast.

 

[An Ankoù]

Thanks again...does the Safale SO-4 sound reasonable? It was quite a sticker shock to see beer yeast cost vs. wine/liquor yeasts. I buy Champagne yeast for almost all my wine/whiskey for $1/pack and I see Brewers yeasts are $7-$15/pack!!!

Don't use Champagne yeasts in your beer they don't work very well.
I would make a bulk order here, if I were you: https://www.crossmyloofbrew.co.uk/shipping-and-terms

Regrettably they're closing down soon as the owner, Steve, is retiring. I've used them for years; their yeasts are excellent and they are very resonable- ridiculousy cheap if you buy in bulk. Postage is surprisingly low, but you may have to pay import duty. I can't imagine it would be very much.

If you are interested in using them, I would be happy to recommend a number of yeasts.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

There's many great places to buy ingredients from if there's nothing close by. As a beginner talking to a real person is very helpful but not always an accessible option. Questions here are very helpful as everyone has different experiences to learn from.

I buy most of my ingredients from Rite Brew, as does many others here. They are very local to me but offer cheap shipping. A closer spot for you is Brew Hardware, Bobby sells a lot of ingredients too plus loads of brewing hardware. Easy guy to contact with questions and he's a regular on this site.

 

[An Ankoù]

There's many great places to buy ingredients from if there's nothing close by. As a beginner talking to a real person is very helpful but not always an accessible option. Questions here are very helpful as everyone has different experiences to learn from.

Don't be afraid from shopping at the world emporium. I live in France, I buy my malt from Ireland- even Weyermanns and Bestmalz are cheaper in Ireland than I can get them from Germany. I get pacific hops from beerco.com.au. If I get about 700-900g at a time I make a good saving from buying, eg. Nectaron. They're ridiculously expensive from some UK and continental suppliers. Lutra dried yeast is also much cheaper all this with the postage factored in. Yeast from CML in Scotland, as already said, is very reasonable. The problem in Europe is carriage- it;s a complete racket over here. The rest of the world seems a lot more sensible.

 

[Abdul Muhamed]

Don't be afraid from shopping at the world emporium. I live in France, I buy my malt from Ireland- even Weyermanns and Bestmalz are cheaper in Ireland than I can get them from Germany.

We in the U.S. have some of the most reasonable domestic shipping rates in the world. Ordering things from Europe, though, can be tricky. Often, the cost of shipping from Europe to the U.S. and the time in customs can make it a pain. Grains are heavy, and yeast is temperature-sensitive, so I generally don't buy things from there. I try to buy all the yeasts that I need for winemaking in autumn-spring to avoid the potential high temperatures of summer.

As for measuring, I'm in the medical field and everything scientific in the U.S. is Metric. I don't know why we refuse to convert to metric. it is much easier to do conversions. All my cooking, baking, and fermentables I do in metric- it's just much simpler than Imperial units.

I actually picked up a copy of Joy of Homebrewing on Ebay for like $5. It looks like a good place to start.

One other question: Where do you all pick up bottles? Buying new non-screw-on beer bottles are about $1.60 each with shipping. I've just been buying Guinness and saving the bottles...It cost me $2/each for a bottle of cold Guinness so I figure it's way cheaper to reuse them than buy empties. I'm discovering that in the U.S. it's hard to find beer in pry-off caps anymore.

 

[user 246304]

We in the U.S. have some of the most reasonable domestic shipping rates in the world. Ordering things from Europe, though, can be tricky. Often, the cost of shipping from Europe to the U.S. and the time in customs can make it a pain. Grains are heavy, and yeast is temperature-sensitive, so I generally don't buy things from there. I try to buy all the yeasts that I need for winemaking in autumn-spring to avoid the potential high temperatures of summer.

As for measuring, I'm in the medical field and everything scientific in the U.S. is Metric. I don't know why we refuse to convert to metric. it is much easier to do conversions. All my cooking, baking, and fermentables I do in metric- it's just much simpler than Imperial units.

I actually picked up a copy of Joy of Homebrewing on Ebay for like $5. It looks like a good place to start.

One other question: Where do you all pick up bottles? Buying new non-screw-on beer bottles are about $1.60 each with shipping. I've just been buying Guinness and saving the bottles...It cost me $2/each for a bottle of cold Guinness so I figure it's way cheaper to reuse them than buy empties. I'm discovering that in the U.S. it's hard to find beer in pry-off caps anymore.

Yeah, bottles can be expensive if you have to have them shipped. I often see them up on things like FB marketplace, or NextDoor, so they're both local (no shipping cost) and cheaper, usually. Just an example. Hate to admit it but I have way too many bottles, just from drinking beer.

 

[mac_1103]

Where do you all pick up bottles?

Craigslist. Ask friends who don't brew their own to save them for you. After all, you're probably going to wind up giving them back with free beer inside.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

We in the U.S. have some of the most reasonable domestic shipping rates in the world. Ordering things from Europe, though, can be tricky. Often, the cost of shipping from Europe to the U.S. and the time in customs can make it a pain. Grains are heavy, and yeast is temperature-sensitive, so I generally don't buy things from there. I try to buy all the yeasts that I need for winemaking in autumn-spring to avoid the potential high temperatures of summer.

As for measuring, I'm in the medical field and everything scientific in the U.S. is Metric. I don't know why we refuse to convert to metric. it is much easier to do conversions. All my cooking, baking, and fermentables I do in metric- it's just much simpler than Imperial units.

I actually picked up a copy of Joy of Homebrewing on Ebay for like $5. It looks like a good place to start.

One other question: Where do you all pick up bottles? Buying new non-screw-on beer bottles are about $1.60 each with shipping. I've just been buying Guinness and saving the bottles...It cost me $2/each for a bottle of cold Guinness so I figure it's way cheaper to reuse them than buy empties. I'm discovering that in the U.S. it's hard to find beer in pry-off caps anymore.

When looking at bottles for your beer make sure you're getting bottles that can handle the pressure. Some beer packaged in bottles are basically single use and not something that should be used multiple times.

If you're going to make the investment buy new or ones you know are the heavier type "beer" bottles. As noted there's lots out there for used, just watch what you're getting.

After awhile you'll end up with a nice library of beer books. Great reference even for the folks who have been brewing for some time.

 

[Closet Fermenter]

When I bottled, I used to like the IBC Rootbeer bottles. They were heavy, brown bottles, and had no labels to deal with. It was easy to get the family, (including the kids!) to help me empty them.
I have not bottled in years, and discarded all my bottles except for the big bombers. I actually use these for sharing wine samples.) I have no idea what the IBC bottles are like now; they may have gone to thin, twist-offs like nearly everyone else.

 

[mac_1103]

As noted there's lots out there for used, just watch what you're getting.

And check for hairline cracks before filling. And put them in a sturdy container in a safe place while conditioning.

 

[mac_1103]

I have no idea what the IBC bottles are like now; they may have gone to thin, twist-offs like nearly everyone else.

I think they have gone to twist offs, but as I recall IBC is pretty fizzy stuff and they don't ship it cold, so the bottles have to be able to handle a decent amount of pressure.

 

[Closet Fermenter]

Well, let me just ask; can the twist-offs be capped? I mean, they are obviously capped when you get them. Maybe it’s not possible due to design, or risky with the thin lip. I just don’t know; never considered trying it.

 

[mac_1103]

can the twist-offs be capped?

I seem to recall that at least one member here says he has capped twist-offs. Don't remember who. Maybe I'll try a search later if I'm even more bored than I am now.

 

[Abdul Muhamed]

My understanding is NO they cannot be capped. I did an experiment with a Yuengling twist-off bottle and my bottle capper and there was no lip to fully seal the cap. No matter how hard I pushed on the capper, the cap only loosely sat on the bottle. I'm sure most beers nowadays are "force carbonated" rather than adding sugar and carbonating in the bottles. This allows them to avoid exploding bottles and gives them a cheaper bottle b/c they don't need to withstand higher pressures. Not sure what would happen if you saved the twist caps and the bottles and re tightened them on, but I don't think I'd want to chance it.

 

[An Ankoù]

As for measuring, I'm in the medical field and everything scientific in the U.S. is Metric. I don't know why we refuse to convert to metric. it is much easier to do conversions. All my cooking, baking, and fermentables I do in metric- it's just much simpler than Imperial units.

I actually picked up a copy of Joy of Homebrewing on Ebay for like $5. It looks like a good place to start.

An excellent starting point, and beyond. I'm going to dig mine out and give it another read.
You're right about units of measure. I don't have a problem with lbs and oz as I' m old enough to have been brought up with them. And, knowing that your gallon has 16 oz instead of 20, I can handle that easily. BUT I absolutely refuse to follow cooking recipes where the measures are in cups. Illogical, I suppose, since I'm happy with teaspoonsful and dessert spoons, but I have never been able to get a consensus on conversions of cups; either the volume or the weight of common ingredients.

 

[mac_1103]

This allows them to avoid exploding bottles and gives them a cheaper bottle b/c they don't need to withstand higher pressures.

The bottle still has to be able to withstand the pressure even if the beer is carbonated before filling. And pressure increases with temperature and BMC isn't shipped cold.

 

[Abdul Muhamed]

An excellent starting point, and beyond. I'm going to dig mine out and give it another read.
You're right about units of measure. I don't have a problem with lbs and oz as I' m old enough to have been brought up with them. And, knowing that your gallon has 16 oz instead of 20, I can handle that easily. BUT I absolutely refuse to follow cooking recipes where the measures are in cups. Illogical, I suppose, since I'm happy with teaspoonsful and dessert spoons, but I have never been able to get a consensus on conversions of cups; either the volume or the weight of common ingredients.

Problem with cups, tablespoons, etc is they are volume not weight I can pack a measuring cup with flour for bread and it might weigh 150g, or I can loosely fill a measuring cup with the same flour and it weighs 100g. Huge difference when it comes to following a bread recipe. I just use a digital scale and measure all ingredients in grams.

 

[An Ankoù]

Me too. Much easier.

 

[bike2brew]

Pennsylvania. Yeah, $3...but $8.50 with shipping. I have a rule, NEVER pay more for shipping than the item costs. I have a brew store about 40 min away, I may make a trip there. I have Amazon free shipping so I could get it for $3.5/pack if I buy 6...How long does Brewer Yeast last in a fridge? I have Champagne Yeast from 3 years ago in my fridge that still works great.

I try to buy my yeast and hops local too. I'm 60 miles from my LHBS so tend to buy for next couple of brew batches in advance. Able to transport home in cooler and transfer to fridge for next use.