Corrosion inside Therminator

[cuse88]

I just noticed a little corrosion inside my Therminator. Has the green oxidized coating on in the wort side. Is there any solution to remove the corrosion or am I SOL?

 

[dmcman73]

I just noticed a little corrosion inside my Therminator. Has the green oxidized coating on in the wort side. Is there any solution to remove the corrosion or am I SOL?

Isn't it suppose to be stainless steel?

You could try passing hot PBW solution through it then follow up with a Starsan soak and see if that lifts that green off.

But again, it's odd that the inside of the stainless Therminator turned green, I would expect that on something copper.

 

[cuse88]

I agree. I have one of the older models, I believe the newer ones are 100% stainless. I followed the instructions and never left full of Star-San. I gave it a quick rinse after. My only fault may have been accidentally leaving it against a stainless pan.

 

[JonM]

There's definitely copper in there.

"Brazed together with pure copper in an oxygen-free furnace, with no potential leaks like a gasketed unit!"

Email Blichmann. They have legendary customer service. I bet they'll tell you what's going on and what to do.

 

[dmcman73]

There's definitely copper in there.

"Brazed together with pure copper in an oxygen-free furnace, with no potential leaks like a gasketed unit!"

Email Blichmann. They have legendary customer service. I bet they'll tell you what's going on and what to do.

If it is brazed with pure copper than once something acidic, like StarSan or even boiling hot Wort, passes over it it will clean right up. So many people with copper immersion coils that have turned green give them a quick soak in StarSan and it brightens them right up.

 

[cuse88]

My concern is with the Therminator is not being able to see if it is fully cleaned out. I just emailed Blichmann. This was a great find an hour brew day ☹️ with no other chilling options

 

[m1k3]

I recently boiled my therminator for 10-15 minutes. I was suprised what the water looked like when I was done.

I have also recirculated hot OxyClean (or PBW) to clean the Therminator.
That got out an incredible amount of junk.

Then after every brew day I recirculate starsan (not really to sanitize but it is recommended since it is acidic) but as others have said you don't want to leave starsan in the therminator. (you will get corrosion, a therminator full of acid is essentially a battery)

Some people bake their therminator... but i have not done that yet. Baking might help if you get hops jammed inside that can't be removed.

I put all my hop in a stainless hop spider after plugging my therminator with whole hops once.

 

[cuse88]

I did a rinse and soak with PBW today and all of what came out was green initially. It did clear, but when I looked inside the fittings I could see a green coding still there.

 

[m1k3]

Was the PBW hot? It seems to work better warm.

Starsan is good a removing corrosion... You can make it strong... Double or triple strength just make sure to flush with water so that it doses not stay in contact for a long time.

 

[augiedoggy]

From what Ive read, that green oxidized coating found on copper (Verdigris) is toxic...
I found this by doing a google search but I've actually read this before on this forum...

http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/wha...is-a-brief-history-of-a-very-old-color-199569

and from a member here...

http://www.thescrewybrewer.com/2013/02/brewing-with-copper-verdigris-myths.html

of course in this article Screwy brewer says the toxic green layer wont be an issue with brewing use and thats only true if it sees continuous regular use.

 

[cuse88]

The Verdigris is my concern. I sent an email to Blichmann. Trying to find an alternative method now to chilling my brew tomorrow.

 

[Bobby_M]

You may be able to use alcohol to fix it. Soak with everclear for 4 hours then rinse the chiller well with hot water. This is based on the reading I've done on copper acetate being alcohol soluble.

 

[cuse88]

You may be able to use alcohol to fix it. Soak with everclear for 4 hours then rinse the chiller well with hot water. This is based on the reading I've done on copper acitate being alcohol soluble.

Is there a minimum proof on this? Ohio unfortunately only sells the 151 proof Everclear, damn politicians!!

 

[Bobby_M]

Apparently it can be acetate or carbonate. Acetate is dissolved by alcohol and carbonate by acid. I have no idea how to tell the difference or what strength alcohol it takes.

 

[cuse88]

Blichmann got back to me. All they said to do was flush with PBW then soak in Star-San. This doesn't seem to be enough to me at all.

 

[stevehaun]

An acid rinse should remove it. Blichmann's advice is sound.

 

[dmcman73]

I agree, an acid rinse/soak will get rid of it, if it doesn't, there may be other issues.

There are a bunch of posts on here with brewers asking how to remove the same green "corrosion" from their copper immersion coils. After a soak in StarSan, they said their coils came out looking brand new and shiny.

 

[augiedoggy]

No different than cleaning an old penny in vinegar mixed with salt as a kid I guess.

 

[m1k3]

Good to hear that John Blichmann agrees with me.

Was the PBW hot? It seems to work better warm.

Starsan is good a removing corrosion... You can make it strong... Double or triple strength just make sure to flush with water so that it doses not stay in contact for a long time.

 

[cuse88]

Did what was recommended and still see the green oxidized layer. Really sucks. Thinking a new chiller is in my future.

 

[WI_Wino]

Pictures really are worth a thousand words

 

[dmcman73]

I agree, can you post some pictures of it? That will give us a better understanding on what's going on.

 

[stevehaun]

I'll give you $25 for it. I will pay the shipping.

 

[cuse88]

It's pretty hard to take photos inside the wort in/out where the green is seen. I gave it another PBW soak and Star-San soak (upped the concetrate by 50%) and seemed to have worked. Water was green as could be. I gave it a good rinse and it had a strong metallic smell. I plan on heavily flushing again before brewing.

 

[augiedoggy]

Thinking a new chiller is in my future.

If this does end up being your course of action,

I recommend going with something better and cheaper like the Duda B3-23a its 50% more effective than the therminator and is less than half the price at $105.... He does sell the equivalent to the therminator in specs and size though too though for $85...

A longer plate chiller always works better than shorter ones with more plates... not to mention its that much more likely to stay clean.

 

[cuse88]

Gave it a good 20 minute flush today and still getting a metallic smell. This is probably a stupid question but is there any kind of test to insure any potential corrosion is gone? I've tried looking down the inlets, the wort side doesn't look bad but the water side has the classic green copper still.

 

[grassfeeder]

I always flushed mine till clear after brewing but I put boiled a pot of oxyclean and placed it in there for 20 minutes and came back to green soup. backflushed it with hot and cold water and got chunks coming out for a long while. amazing. like I had never cleaned it.

 

[stevehaun]

The water side doesn't matter. As long as the wort side is good - you will be fine.

 

[cuse88]

The water side doesn't matter. As long as the wort side is good - you will be fine.

This is what I am trying to figure out. I wasn't sure with the corrosion, if there was any kind of test to do to verify it has been resolved. I can see in the wort inlets and it doesn't look to bad.

 

[augiedoggy]

This is what I am trying to figure out. I wasn't sure with the corrosion, if there was any kind of test to do to verify it has been resolved. I can see in the wort inlets and it doesn't look to bad.

It seems odd to me that your water ports would be the ones to have corrosion? I would have suspected the wort side to be more susceptible.

 

[cuse88]

It seems odd to me that your water ports would be the ones to have corrosion? I would have suspected the wort side to be more susceptible.

The corrosion stems from the Therminator tipping over while draining touching stainless and I must have missed some Star San in there causing it to essentially become a battery.

 

[Duda_Energy]

Blichmann got back to me. All they said to do was flush with PBW then soak in Star-San. This doesn't seem to be enough to me at all.

Duda here, and we agree with Blichmann. The main point I think everyone is missing out on is what to do after the starsans soak. Starsans is acidic, and so long as there isn't any oxygen in your solution, soaking is okay - but as soon as you take that chiller out of its chemical bath and drain it, you now expose it to air.

Flushing star sans out of the unit is the most important part. Don't want to leave anything in there to sit if it can be avoided.

 

[cuse88]

Duda here, and we agree with Blichmann. The main point I think everyone is missing out on is what to do after the starsans soak. Starsans is acidic, and so long as there isn't any oxygen in your solution, soaking is okay - but as soon as you take that chiller out of its chemical bath and drain it, you now expose it to air.



Flushing star sans out of the unit is the most important part. Don't want to leave anything in there to sit if it can be avoided.

In the event it's not completely flushed, does the PBW soak and then star San seem sufficient to reverse any possible corrosion effects early on? I am trying to reverse the effects of possible.

I agree, I definitely made a mistake in the maintenance of my equipment.

 

[Duda_Energy]

In the event it's not completely flushed, does the PBW soak and then star San seem sufficient to reverse any possible corrosion effects early on? I am trying to reverse the effects of possible.

First, lets ignore PBW. PBW is a great cleaner for dealing with organics (such as chunks of hops), but doesn't really react with metal or corrosion, so we can ignore it as a non-factor in this conversation.

Next, how old is your unit?

I ask because 9 times out of 10 when someone has a verdigris issue its not from the stainless or the copper of the unit itself, but from tiny specks of copper which flaked off in the manufacturing of the unit which now just sit inside the unit.

 

[cuse88]

First, lets ignore PBW. PBW is a great cleaner for dealing with organics (such as chunks of hops), but doesn't really react with metal or corrosion, so we can ignore it as a non-factor in this conversation.



Next, how old is your unit?



I ask because 9 times out of 10 when someone has a verdigris issue its not from the stainless or the copper of the unit itself, but from tiny specks of copper which flaked off in the manufacturing of the unit which now just sit inside the unit.

The unit is only 2 years old or so.