Correct too much lactic acid in English Pale Ale

[danbrellis]

Just finished my first batch of beer where I attempted to adjust water chemistry... and I messed up. I was using the Bru'n Water spreadsheet, and just now noticed that I put way too much lactic acid (88%) in my sparge water. I added 35mL to 5 gals of sparge water (forgot to adjust it to 88%, so the calculator thought it was 1%). It's a 5 gal batch. I did hit my OG (presumably because I mashed at the right pH, only .2mL lactic added to strike water), but now I'm freaking out about a tart, sour mouthfeel and flavor. It's an English Pale Ale (tiny bottom actually). Any advice on fixing this? Just pitched the yeast about an hour ago. Was planning on serving it to a big Easter party we have, so I'd really love to get it drinkable.

 

[eliastheodosis]

Well, I wish I had a solution to propose for you but I don't. I'm not sure anybody here will. At least not anything you can implement on a homebrew level. Anything I can imagine is going to take some pretty fancy equipment.

I applaud you for getting into adjusting your water chemistry. Martin's spreadsheet is great and tweaking the water profile can make a huge difference in your beer! Plus, I am guessing you just learned a valuable lesson. Don't let the mistake get you down or keep you from trying again.

As for the taste, you're definitely right to worry. That's way above the flavor threshold for lactic and anybody with taste buds is going to notice it. Brewing it again is an option if you want a pale ale. Plenty of time before Easter. Otherwise, maybe lean into it. Go get you some frozen fruit or something and make a sour peach pale ale or something. This is deep into experiment realm for me with that much lactic and then throwing fruit into the mix, though, so maybe someone else with more experience can jump in and help.

Unless someone rolls in here with some science I don't know about then you're not getting rid of that flavor, though. Sorry, man...

 

[jambop]

I honestly don't think you will save that the only chemical I can think of that would may be Calcium Hydroxide. I think sodium hydroxide would add too much sodium but which ever way you would be adding one hell of a lot of sodium, potassium or Calcium to your brew. It is a 1:1 neutralisation reaction you have added 35 ml of 88% lactic acid which equates to approx 30 g this equates to about 0.33moles you would need to add about 13g of sodium hydroxide or 12g of Calcium hydroxide ( 1:2 ) to neutralize that much lactic acid . So if you used sodium hydroxide you would be adding 6900mg of sodium which in a 20 L batch would be let round it up to 350mg per litre or 350 ppm sodium which is way off scale . However I think that is pretty much unrealistic as I am sure that amount of lactate will taint the flavour of the beer anyway. I do not know if calcium hydroxide would work but if it did you would need 12.2 g which would increase Calcium by 6600mg or 330ppm now while very high it may not affect the flavour as much as sodium would I would still be concerned about the lactate though.

I could be wrong with my calcs though.
Maybe someone with experience of a mistake of such magnitude could help.

 

[danbrellis]

Appreciate your insights. It's only 24 hours into a very vigorous fermentation. I took a pH test strip and it looks to be just above 4.0, maybe like 4.2 if I had to guess. It doesn't taste particularly sour but there is some unexpected flavor that is hard to describe, I guess that is the lactic? It's not intensely pronounced though.

The acid is an unknown age. Never been opened but I got it from someone selling their stuff and I've had it for at least 4 years. Could it have neutralized some?

I'm thinking about letting it ferment out and giving it a taste then. Any ideas to cover up the lactate taste? I had two dry hop additions planned.

 

[jambop]

This sort of goes back to another thread of last week. When you added the lactic acid the intention was to reduce the alkalinity of the brewing liquor so it would be in the right range to keep the mash in the right pH range after the addition of all the grains . The grains when added to the brewing liquor release various minerals etc and these are acidic the brewing calculator you used has taken the information you gave it about your brew water and together with the grains in you recipe calculated the amount of acid you need to add to the water to keep the mashing process within the correct pH range . Now you were advised to add some lactic acid to the mash water and say you have that right BUT you have added 88 times more than you needed to the sparge water that is a huge difference and is bound to shift the alkalinity of the pre boil wort to another dimension. Sparging with a slightly more acidic liquor is a good idea it keeps stops possible leaching of undesirable tannins and or things. The pH of the post boil wort should be around pH 5.1 to pH 5.2 certainly not pH 4
There is one thing I do not understand about your volumes though. You say you have a 5 US gallon batch yet you sparged with 5 gallons surely you must have a greater volume than 5 gallons ? Did you use all the sparge water or just a bit of it? What volume of sparge water did you use ?

 

[Miraculix]

If there's an off flavour at the end, tell everybody it's fermented with s04 and that it's supposed to be like this.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

Nothing much useful to add sorry. Just wondering if it might end up being a beer some people will like, if not the intended beer. A few months ago I added lactic acid to a fermented stout in stages and ended up with 6.5ml in 10.5 litres of beer. Which is 2.75 of your small gallons. Equates to about 12ml in 5 gallons. A lot less than you used but, although it made a noticeable difference to the stout, I would not describe it as sour.

You've used three times as much as I did so I'd expect it to be sour but maybe not out of the ball park for enjoyable consumption by some people. Sounds like you can track the pH which is handy. I would maybe go left field and add some brett after primary fermentation, if it was me. Just the dregs of a bottle of Orval or something. Or add some fruit puree perhaps! Or use it to blend with other beers, perhaps, if you're that way inclined. Things that have gone wrong have occasionally given me interesting and agreeable results. And I've learned something. Good luck, I hope it works out positively somehow. We all make mistakes.

 

[dmtaylor]

I like @eliastheodosis idea of leaning into it and adding fruit. You can still make this a great beer by adding fruit flavor of some kind. It will taste like a yogurt/beer combo. A lot of people pay a lot of money for commercial sour beers.

 

[dwhite60]

I've used potassium bicarbonate to reduce acidity in wine. It doesn't have the saltiness of baking soda( (sodium bicarbonate). If you add it, go lightly. It WILL cause foaming and could make a volcano.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Mixing it into a small amount of the beer to make a slurry will help prevent a volcano.

 

[danbrellis]

This sort of goes back to another thread of last week. When you added the lactic acid the intention was to reduce the alkalinity of the brewing liquor so it would be in the right range to keep the mash in the right pH range after the addition of all the grains . The grains when added to the brewing liquor release various minerals etc and these are acidic the brewing calculator you used has taken the information you gave it about your brew water and together with the grains in you recipe calculated the amount of acid you need to add to the water to keep the mashing process within the correct pH range . Now you were advised to add some lactic acid to the mash water and say you have that right BUT you have added 88 times more than you needed to the sparge water that is a huge difference and is bound to shift the alkalinity of the pre boil wort to another dimension. Sparging with a slightly more acidic liquor is a good idea it keeps stops possible leaching of undesirable tannins and or things. The pH of the post boil wort should be around pH 5.1 to pH 5.2 certainly not pH 4
There is one thing I do not understand about your volumes though. You say you have a 5 US gallon batch yet you sparged with 5 gallons surely you must have a greater volume than 5 gallons ? Did you use all the sparge water or just a bit of it? What volume of sparge water did you use ?

I had 2.5 gals in my mash (partial mash), then sparged with 5 gal of the treated water in question to collect ~7 gals which went into the boil along with 3 lbs DME. The 2.5 gals for the mash were correctly adjusted (only added .2mL of lactic acid).

FWIW I reached out to my homebrew club about this issue as well and someone replied that since the mash acts as a buffered solution, the final pH isn't influenced really from the addition of a weak acid (aka the lactic acid). So while I did dump a ton of acid into the sparge water, it's the mash pH and yeast biological activity that is really driving this thing.

 

[danbrellis]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and input. I'm feeling a lot better that I can salvage this batch one way or another. I guess my plan is to let it finish fermenting, then give it a taste and make a decision whether to 1) continue with a Fuggle dry hop and keep the English Pale approach or 2) if the acid/lactic is too overpowering go for some blueberry/pineapple/brett craziness. I'll report back in case anyone is interested. Good to know if I go with option 1 that potassium bicarbonate is something to try. Thanks again and yes, lesson 100% learned!

 

[Miraculix]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and input. I'm feeling a lot better that I can salvage this batch one way or another. I guess my plan is to let it finish fermenting, then give it a taste and make a decision whether to 1) continue with a Fuggle dry hop and keep the English Pale approach or 2) if the acid/lactic is too overpowering go for some blueberry/pineapple/brett craziness. I'll report back in case anyone is interested. Good to know if I go with option 1 that potassium bicarbonate is something to try. Thanks again and yes, lesson 100% learned!

Sounds like a really good plan! .... If you like fuggles .

 

[jambop]

I had 2.5 gals in my mash (partial mash), then sparged with 5 gal of the treated water in question to collect ~7 gals which went into the boil along with 3 lbs DME. The 2.5 gals for the mash were correctly adjusted (only added .2mL of lactic acid).

FWIW I reached out to my homebrew club about this issue as well and someone replied that since the mash acts as a buffered solution, the final pH isn't influenced really from the addition of a weak acid (aka the lactic acid). So while I did dump a ton of acid into the sparge water, it's the mash pH and yeast biological activity that is really driving this thing.

Well you will know when it is done fermenting out but It will not taste like any British pale ale .

 

[danbrellis]

Figured I'd update anyone who might still be curious. I kegged the beer as it was, but life got away from me and I ended up just letting it sit in the basement for about a year. I tasted it the other day- still an unpleasant flavor, though drinkable (you don't spit it out).

At this point I don't think I'm going to spend any more money or time on this and just call it a loss and dump it Sorry for the anticlimactic ending.

 

[dmtaylor]

Not going to add fruit flavor or anything, just dump it, eh? I guess sour beers aren't for everyone.