Corny Kegs for Sour Aging

[ShaLaH]

I have a couple sours & funky beers currently aging in 2.5 & 5 gallon corny kegs, it's what I had available at the time. I don't have the space or money to buy oak barrels
and don't wanna tie up a conical long term.

I see a lot of people on this forum using Better Bottles, Carboys, Spiedels, etc, but used kegs are about the same price or cheaper.
It seems to me, kegs are ideal because O2 ingress is kept to a minimum, you can sample with a picnic tap, slap a spunding valve on the gas post to maintain some pressure
and you can blend using a jumper to another keg. Why don't more people use kegs to age their sours?
Are there downsides to using kegs that I'm not aware of?

 

[ShaLaH]

Man, this thread really took off...

 

[IslandLizard]

Man, this thread really took off...

Perhaps, because everyone agrees with you?

Try bringing something more controversial to the board, with a catchy title, and chances are you'll generate more discussion than anyone cares for...

I wholeheartedly agree with your premise! (Corny) kegs are excellent aging devices for all kinds of beer, not only sours. One of my friends uses 1/2 barrel Sanke kegs as soleras. You can add wood cubes and chips at will, rather than committing to a wooden barrel.

 

[ShaLaH]

Perhaps, because everyone agrees with you?

Try bringing something more controversial to the board, with a catchy title, and chances are you'll generate more discussion than anyone cares for...

I wholeheartedly agree with your premise! (Corny) kegs are excellent aging devices for all kinds of beer, not only sours. One of my friends uses 1/2 barrel Sanke kegs as soleras. You can add wood cubes and chips at will, rather than committing to a wooden barrel.

You're right. From now on my posts titles will be something like "Look at the Hooters on this cheerleader - corny kegs for sour aging"

I'm genuinely wondering if there are drawbacks due to geometry or whatever. I see so many people using carboys & better bottles and I wonder why since used kegs are the same price.

 

[IslandLizard]

I'm genuinely wondering if there are drawbacks due to geometry or whatever.

Most are positives, except for a few I can think of:

• You can't see inside, so the view is far less spectacular.
• Kegs are a little harder to clean than most other vessels used for fermentation or aging. Cleaning is similar to a stainless conical, except for the posts, poppets, dip tubes, and o-rings that need extra special attention. But you can put a heavy duty scrubber on most of those surfaces, unlike plastics.
• It's difficult to get a full 2.5 or 5 gallons of finished beer out of a keg. But those are arbitrary target volumes, so who cares?
• You'll need to find a way to leave the sludge on the bottom when transferring to a serving keg or bottling, especially if you want to do (semi-)closed transfers.

 

[ShaLaH]

Most are positives, except for a few I can think of:

• You can't see inside, so the view is far less spectacular.
• Kegs are a little harder to clean than most other vessels used for fermentation or aging. Cleaning is similar to a stainless conical, except for the posts, poppets, dip tubes, and o-rings that need extra special attention. But you can put a heavy duty scrubber on most of those surfaces, unlike plastics.
• It's difficult to get a full 2.5 or 5 gallons of finished beer out of a keg. But those are arbitrary target volumes, so who cares?
• You'll need to find a way to leave the sludge on the bottom when transferring to a serving keg or bottling, especially if you want to do (semi-)closed transfers.

Good stuff, exactly the kind of info I was looking for.


1 - I'm fine without the view.
2 - For cleaning, I pump 165 F water with PBW using a keg washer, so no concerns there.
3 - Volume doesn't matter much to me, I end up bottling all my sours. Plus, most will be blended so I can achieve 5 gallons in a serving vessel if needed.
4 - I have a couple floating dip tubes which solve that problem. However, when I pull samples & transfer I'll be disrupting the pellicle if one has formed. Although if there's no Oxygen a pellicle should be unlikely or minimal right? Perhaps I dump the first few ounces when transferring to serving keg to ensure cleaner beer?

 

[mashpaddled]

A lot of this goes back to the view that sour beers benefit from small amounts of oxygen contact. If you go back like ten years you'll see a lot of brewers complaining that they tried to age sour beers in kegs and felt like they didn't get sour enough or develop enough flavor. I don't agree and why they came to that conclusion is a tangent from your question. I don't see a problem with using kegs and I've never thought spiedels add much value for sour beer unless you really need that side port.

For most of us who have been at this for a while we have plastic fermenters because that's what people used at the time and there's no reason to replace functional equipment. I continue to use my better bottles simply because I have them and they turn out good beer.

The only real point of contention I have is over pricing. I see used corny kegs generally selling for around $60-85. Spiedels are around that price but five and six gallon PET vessels are usually half or less the cost of a keg. I see used better bottles going for $10-15 locally which is a lot less than kegs. For a cost conscious brewer the basic plastic carboy is a better route. If you're willing to spend $30 for a bottle of lambic, that cost isn't a real factor. Sour beer is one of the few areas of homebrewing where you can actually save money compared to buying commercially.

 

[ShaLaH]

A lot of this goes back to the view that sour beers benefit from small amounts of oxygen contact. If you go back like ten years you'll see a lot of brewers complaining that they tried to age sour beers in kegs and felt like they didn't get sour enough or develop enough flavor. I don't agree and why they came to that conclusion is a tangent from your question. I don't see a problem with using kegs and I've never thought spiedels add much value for sour beer unless you really need that side port.

For most of us who have been at this for a while we have plastic fermenters because that's what people used at the time and there's no reason to replace functional equipment. I continue to use my better bottles simply because I have them and they turn out good beer.

The only real point of contention I have is over pricing. I see used corny kegs generally selling for around $60-85. Spiedels are around that price but five and six gallon PET vessels are usually half or less the cost of a keg. I see used better bottles going for $10-15 locally which is a lot less than kegs. For a cost conscious brewer the basic plastic carboy is a better route. If you're willing to spend $30 for a bottle of lambic, that cost isn't a real factor. Sour beer is one of the few areas of homebrewing where you can actually save money compared to buying commercially.

Good points.
I'll be filling up an old carboy and better bottle that I've had for over a decade. Once those are filled I'll need more vessels hence
creating this thread to get some feedback. Adventures in Homebrewing always has used kegs for $45 so it's not too bad.

 

[Jocky]

I'm really interested in this subject.

I'm currently planning a solera style stock ale project, where I'll be brewing a strong ale (1.090+), fermenting it normally and then introducing some bugs and wood to age for a year. After a year I'll brew a new batch and use some for blending old and new for packaging and the rest to top up the stock/solera.

I was planning to use a corny for aging, just simply because I have them, they take lots of pressure and they're easy to handle.

 

[blantonj00]

I've got a large temp controlled brew area and a good number of 5 gallon corny kegs that I use for secondarying sour beer - guess I've got around a dozen going now and four more serving at this time. I add fruit and wood cubes directly into the kegs (always in nylon bags) and vent pressure by depressing the gas in poppet. I sample with a picnic tap and don't worry about oxygen when I open the keg lid. I like long aged sours so kegs are ideal (currently have several beers that have been in a keg for 4+ years). I did have issues with bugs remaining in the keg even after cleaning so I have gone to boiling water as my cleaning procedure - I remove the poppets and dip tubes, boil some water, pour the boiled water through the dip tubes and poppets (holding the tubes and poppets with pliers; high temp gloves are a must) into the keg, reassemble the keg and slowly swirl the keg from bottom to top, then let sit for a little bit before releasing the pressure through the gas in poppet. There is usually a pretty good bit of pressure so I use a rag to cover any liquid escape. I also like using kegs for sours so I can have a wide variety of styles produced and so that different kegs can be blended when desired.

 

[ShaLaH]

I've got a large temp controlled brew area and a good number of 5 gallon corny kegs that I use for secondarying sour beer - guess I've got around a dozen going now and four more serving at this time. I add fruit and wood cubes directly into the kegs (always in nylon bags) and vent pressure by depressing the gas in poppet. I sample with a picnic tap and don't worry about oxygen when I open the keg lid. I like long aged sours so kegs are ideal (currently have several beers that have been in a keg for 4+ years). I did have issues with bugs remaining in the keg even after cleaning so I have gone to boiling water as my cleaning procedure - I remove the poppets and dip tubes, boil some water, pour the boiled water through the dip tubes and poppets (holding the tubes and poppets with pliers; high temp gloves are a must) into the keg, reassemble the keg and slowly swirl the keg from bottom to top, then let sit for a little bit before releasing the pressure through the gas in poppet. There is usually a pretty good bit of pressure so I use a rag to cover any liquid escape. I also like using kegs for sours so I can have a wide variety of styles produced and so that different kegs can be blended when desired.

Sounds like a great setup. I’d love to have a temp-controlled room for various kegs for long term aging. This is exactly what I’m looking to build, a bunch of various sour and Brett beers that I can mix at various stages. Since I’ll be aging in kegs under pressure I’m assuming high temps in the summer wont be as big an issue since pressure should reduce off flavors, esthers, etc.

Curious why you don’t throw fruit and oak cubes in naked, is it to reduce risk of clogging the dip tube?

 

[blantonj00]

Sounds like a great setup. I’d love to have a temp-controlled room for various kegs for long term aging. This is exactly what I’m looking to build, a bunch of various sour and Brett beers that I can mix at various stages. Since I’ll be aging in kegs under pressure I’m assuming high temps in the summer wont be as big an issue since pressure should reduce off flavors, esthers, etc.

Curious why you don’t throw fruit and oak cubes in naked, is it to reduce risk of clogging the dip tube?

Yeah that's it - those floating dip tubes sound like a great idea, but I've yet to invest in them, and I just like to have easy access to the additions - sometimes I'll take them out if I think the flavor is just where I want it to be