Corkage Fee for Beer?

[smokinghole]

Like NJ there are a limited number of liquor licenses in PA. There are alot of BYOB places in and around the Harrisburg Area. I bring homebrews to all of them when I know I'm going to a BYOB. My wife usually wants to bring wine so I can have wine or beer or both. I think the next place I head to I'll be bringing a Belgian Dark Strong. Of course there are BYOB Indian, Thai, and Lebonese restaurants that I think hoppy beers compliment some of their spicy dishes.

With that said none of these places charge a corkage fee or bottle opening fee. I believe in PA that if you have a liquor license that it is illegal to bring outside booze to the restaurant/event. I was just at a wedding where some doofus was sneaking in Natural Light and left the empty can in an ash bucket outside. There was a prompt "no outside alcohol or the reception is over" announcement. I think that stems from a responsibility of the venue to watch for drunks and over-serving people.

 

[Jsamp]

I get paid $2.13/hour so basically my entire income is based off of tips. I also have to pay out a tip share based on my sales. If I dont get a tip I have to pay to wait on you. Dont leave a penny thats not right. If I do a crappy job I expect a crappy tip. A penny is extremely insulting just dont leave anything at all if its that terrible. Remember this we remember. Leave a penny go back to the same place luck of the draw gets you the same server and its hard to tell what all you will be eating. Im a better person than that but are others?

 

[Airborneguy]

I think the general public has no idea what waiting is all about.

My wife was in service for a long time, so thankfully, I have her to tell me what really deserves a good tip and what doesn't. She and I both agree that while the server isn't directly responsible for food coming out slow, if they do nothing to explain the situation or mitigate it at all, especially at a high end restaurant, their tip will be reflective of the wait.

 

[Airborneguy]

He said it's illegal for the owner to run to a liquor store to buy a bottle and serve it, and that there are state employees that go around checking the bar codes to see if they were purchased thru legal channels.

Oddly enough, another thing I learned way later in the game, is that in NJ, they CAN sell liquor/beer to go at restaurants. In some towns, the local restaurant might be one of the only places to actually buy beer. I went to watch a football game at my cousin's once and we actually went to a steak house to go pick up six-packs. On the flip side, the places that don't have a liquor license sometimes have signs telling you where the nearest store to get a bottle is before you sit down at your table.

Just goes to show you how strange alcohol laws really can get.

 

[eastoak]

OK. Cue the server's rebuttal.

I realize you changed your mind and said $16 dollars isn't "too bad" for a corkage fee.

But you did tip your hand and revealed a little bit about what kind of restaurant patron you are: the worst kind. You have clearly represented yourself as are the type of person who treats the service staff as though they are personally responsible for restaurant policy, and if you are displeased with any aspect of your dining experience (the steak was too salty, parking was a hassle, or you were charged a corkage fee) you feel justified punishing your waiter by shortchanging him/her on their tip. The tip is part of the social contract we Americans follow when we dine out in this country. It varies across the country with respect to tipping rate, but the foundation couldn't be more clear: you tip your waiter for serving you. You sit in a chair and they bring you everything you could possibly need to enjoy a meal. If you get a reasonable level of service, you tip your waiter whatever the going rate in your area demands. In central California, that means around 18% of your bill. Unless you feel your server went out of their way to insult you or intentionally make your evening unpleasant, you should never tip less that the going rate, period. Food talking a long time is not a server's fault. A kitchen running out of your favorite cut of pork is not a reason to ignore all the work they do for you and the diners around you. And openly admitting that you'd subtract your tip from an otherwise satisfactory server because of a corkage fee is insulting to me, a man who supports a wife and two children with "tips."

People who think the way you do about dining out need to be corrected, or at the very least you shouldn't eat out anymore. Stay home and pry open all the bottles of wine you want for free. But if you want to carry alcohol into an establishment that sells alcohol, you're going to have to pay up. And if the establishment is like mine, where pages and pages of bottles sell for well over $500 (at an approximate 100% markup from retail prices, if such rare vintages could actually be found in retail stores), bringing in equivalent wine and paying a $16 dollar fee is a bargain indeed. FYI, corkage fees are not voluntary -- you pay or you never come back.

To conclude: some people need to stop blaming their server for their own personal issues which are well beyond your server's control -- issues like being impatient, cheap, or ignorant. Your server is doing an unpleasant job and is being paid the legal minimum to perform it. If your dining experience isn't everything you hoped it would be, try to rationally decide what your server is (and isn't) responsible for -- just chill out, tip correctly and have a few homebrews when you get home. Don't hurt honest hard working people by taking income out of their pockets.

There's my server rant. Don't say you didn't ask for it -- because you did.

you tip your hand as to the type of server you are with this rant, the worst kind. nobody is responsible for your income but yourself, regardless of where you work. if waitstaff don't like to work for minimum wage get another job or stand up for your rights as a worker and demand a living wage. demanding money from everyone you serve makes you look snotty and childish. there are people all over this country working for minimum wage who don't get any tips ever, waitstaff are not any more special.

there is my rant. don't say you didn't ask for it -- because you did.

 

[bigbeergeek]

you tip your hand as to the type of server you are with this rant, the worst kind. nobody is responsible for your income but yourself, regardless of where you work. if waitstaff don't like to work for minimum wage get another job or stand up for your rights as a worker and demand a living wage. demanding money from everyone you serve makes you look snotty and childish. there are people all over this country working for minimum wage who don't get any tips ever, waitstaff are not any more special.

there is my rant. don't say you didn't ask for it -- because you did.

Let's keep this kind of childishness off the posts, shall we?

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

I get paid $2.13/hour so basically my entire income is based off of tips. I also have to pay out a tip share based on my sales. If I dont get a tip I have to pay to wait on you. Dont leave a penny thats not right. If I do a crappy job I expect a crappy tip. A penny is extremely insulting just dont leave anything at all if its that terrible. Remember this we remember. Leave a penny go back to the same place luck of the draw gets you the same server and its hard to tell what all you will be eating. Im a better person than that but are others?

If service was bad enough that I felt like I needed to craft a rude message like that for the server, I've probably talked to the manager and already decided I'm never coming back. At a minimum, if I came back I would make sure I was seated where I received a different server. I wouldn't want to put myself through the same nonsense.

The only time I have done something like that was when the manager wasn't available or after being asked to come over never showed up. It's probably been seven or eight years since that happened. I'd rather just talk to the manager and leave no tip.

 

[smokinghole]

How'd this turn into a waitstaff debate?

Back to corking...So if you bring in a special bottle do you get weird looks when you ask for the bottle back? You know so you can throw your own homebrew in there. I do it at the Belgian restaurant that I go to every now and then. The waiter was confused at first but then went and got me a bag.

 

[bigbeergeek]

Some people want to keep bottles to commemorate events etc. As a server I'd rinse it, cork it and bag it without any sideways glances.

What's Belgian food like, anyway?

 

[makomachine]

I corkage my server all the time. (I know that doesn't make sense but has as much direction as this thread does at the moment.)

Corkage fees for beer is not something I hear of at all in Oklahoma and now I have to look into it. Frankly, I've grown accustomed to having to choose - fine dining or fine drinking - when I go out given the current selection of craft beer in Oklahoma restaurants. I'd be open to a small fee which would include a comment to the manager that having the beer on tap or in bottle is what I want as a regular customer. No need to get hostile with them as I'm a minority as a beer enthusiast at this location...

 

[smokinghole]

Some people want to keep bottles to commemorate events etc. As a server I'd rinse it, cork it and bag it without any sideways glances.

What's Belgian food like, anyway?

Well the place I eat at does what is probably typical of Wallonian fare which is heavily by you guessed it French cuisine. I have not been to Belgium so I cannot comment as to how accurately they represent the food. All I know is everything I've had was delicious.

 

[bigbeergeek]

Well the place I eat at does what is probably typical of Wallonian fare which is heavily by you guessed it French cuisine. I have not been to Belgium so I cannot comment as to how accurately they represent the food. All I know is everything I've had was delicious.

Neato!

 

[Jsamp]

How'd this turn into a waitstaff debate?

Back to corking...So if you bring in a special bottle do you get weird looks when you ask for the bottle back? You know so you can throw your own homebrew in there. I do it at the Belgian restaurant that I go to every now and then. The waiter was confused at first but then went and got me a bag.

It depends on the local laws as well as establishment policy. For an open container such as wine to leave my place of work it has to have been opened as well as same of it consumed. This means you cant just buy a bottle and take it to go. We also have to break a wine cork top off and shove the bottom part in so you have to use a wine key to remove it. We package it in a clear bag with an adhesive to seal it. It then has to be put in a bag thats stapled shut with proof of purchase on it. With no proof of purchase you wont be taking even your own bottle out of our establishment because it becomes a liability do to open container laws.

you tip your hand as to the type of server you are with this rant, the worst kind. nobody is responsible for your income but yourself, regardless of where you work. if waitstaff don't like to work for minimum wage get another job or stand up for your rights as a worker and demand a living wage. demanding money from everyone you serve makes you look snotty and childish. there are people all over this country working for minimum wage who don't get any tips ever, waitstaff are not any more special.

there is my rant. don't say you didn't ask for it -- because you did.

This is ignorant if you ask me. I work for a restaurant because I make more than minimum wage doing it. I couldnt live off minimum wage. You not tipping is taking money away from us. How would you like it if your boss took part of your paycheck just because he didnt feel like giving it to you? We provide our time and provide a service. The service we give should be reflected accordingly to our performance. If we do good tip good/fair if we do absolute crap dont give us anything. Something your not thinking about with your "demand a living wage" is the cost of menu prices would have to go up and therefor you would be paying more to go out to eat anyway. I wouldnt do that job for anything less than $15/hr because people can be hard to deal with. Tips are an incentive for your servers to want to do a good job and want to take great care of you. At least for me it is. If pay was a standard set amount I would get paid the same even if I gave you terrible service.

 

[bigbeergeek]

This is ignorant if you ask me. I work for a restaurant because I make more than minimum wage doing it. I couldnt live off minimum wage. You not tipping is taking money away from us. How would you like it if your boss took part of your paycheck just because he didnt feel like giving it to you? We provide our time and provide a service. The service we give should be reflected accordingly to our performance. If we do good tip good/fair if we do absolute crap dont give us anything. Something your not thinking about with your "demand a living wage" is the cost of menu prices would have to go up and therefor you would be paying more to go out to eat anyway. I wouldnt do that job for anything less than $15/hr because people can be hard to deal with. Tips are an incentive for your servers to want to do a good job and want to take great care of you. At least for me it is. If pay was a standard set amount I would get paid the same even if I gave you terrible service.

Well said. We live/work in a country that has a tradition of tipping our servers rather than paying them hourly for their services. If I didn't make tips, I couldn't support my family. You didn't mention that some of us out there aren't above spitting in your food or rubbing it against the bottom of our shoes before serving it to you. We remember who the jerks are -- and we handle your food and drinks when no one can see us. Try to keep that in mind when out to eat.

 

[makomachine]

Well said. We live/work in a country that has a tradition of tipping our servers rather than paying them hourly for their services. If I didn't make tips, I couldn't support my family. You didn't mention that some of us out there aren't above spitting in your food or rubbing it against the bottom of our shoes before serving it to you. We remember who the jerks are -- and we handle your food and drinks when no one can see us. Try to keep that in mind when out to eat.

Where do you work again? Want to be sure and NOT frequent that establishment. That will get you an a$$ kicking in my neck of the woods, or worse. And, btw we are still .

 

[ozzy1038]

I get paid $2.13/hour so basically my entire income is based off of tips. I also have to pay out a tip share based on my sales. If I dont get a tip I have to pay to wait on you. Dont leave a penny thats not right. If I do a crappy job I expect a crappy tip. A penny is extremely insulting just dont leave anything at all if its that terrible. Remember this we remember. Leave a penny go back to the same place luck of the draw gets you the same server and its hard to tell what all you will be eating. Im a better person than that but are others?

Well if a server does a crappy job then IMO a penny is a crappy tip and sends a message. A good night out, turned into a s**tty experience because of bad service is incredibly insulting as well. I will speak to the manager if I receive bad service, but in no way will I give a full tip to a server if I do not feel decent service was given.

I am one of the good customers because I ask for little and typically tip heavy. Often if I am eating somewhere were the ticket price is low I will tip in the 30-40% range. I also am conscious of the need to make money and usually will not hang around forever talking after eating and sometimes will even feel akward if those in my party are doing so. Especially if the restaurant is busy. The more you turn the tables the more money there is to be made. Conversely, I don't like feeling like I am being pushed out so they can turn the tables.

Also, I will typically give a restaurant two chances. If they suck both times then I will not return. Rarely is this the case.

To the poster who said slow food is not the servers fault, sometimes it is. Often I have had food die in the window because servers were not getting it out quick enough. Of course the server can blame that on the kitchen and most patrons are none the wiser.

 

[bigbeergeek]

Where do you work again? Want to be sure and NOT frequent that establishment. That will get you an a$$ kicking in my neck of the woods, or worse. And, btw we are still .

You probably couldn't afford to "frequent" a fine dining establishment like the one I work in, as our regulars are all doctors/lawyers and the like. Servers don't get their "a$$es kicked" for messing with food because you never even know it happens. The moral is simple: don't be a jerk to those who handle your food and drinks when you can't see them. Duh. We servers make our living by acting nice to people we don't really care about -- we can mess with your food and act as sweet as pie to you afterword. Tip properly, don't blame your server for things beyond their control like corkage fees, and your food will be as clean as it is delicious.

 

[makomachine]

Found this quoted inline at winespectator.com.

"In Oklahoma, restaurants that wish to allow corkage can apply for a special “bottle club” license, but only in counties where by-the-glass service is illegal."

"Oklahoma requires each diner to have his or her own bottle. Residents of dry counties in any state are typically out of luck."

Interesting as I've never seen wine, much less beer, handled this way in Oklahoma. I'm going to ask the next time I'm out for a steak what the restaurants policy is on beer and will reply back. From reading the article - it's a mess of confusion...

http://www.winespectator.com/webfeature/show/id/44507

 

[ozzy1038]

Well said. We live/work in a country that has a tradition of tipping our servers rather than paying them hourly for their services. If I didn't make tips, I couldn't support my family. You didn't mention that some of us out there aren't above spitting in your food or rubbing it against the bottom of our shoes before serving it to you. We remember who the jerks are -- and we handle your food and drinks when no one can see us. Try to keep that in mind when out to eat.

In all my years in foodservice as much as I may have wanted to mess with some A-hole's food my morals and ethics did not allow it. If that is the type of person you are, then you are in the wrong profession.

 

[bigbeergeek]

To the poster who said slow food is not the servers fault, sometimes it is. Often I have had food die in the window because servers were not getting it out quick enough. Of course the server can blame that on the kitchen and most patrons are none the wiser.

That was me.

Sometimes it is, to be sure.

Most of the time, however, the blame falls on the customers themselves. Look around you. You're sitting in a packed restaurant on a Saturday night. Hundreds of food orders are going through a tiny kitchen with a small handful of people preparing everything for you to order. Food takes time to make. Cold, old, "dead" food might not even be your servers fault. Most of the 5 restaurants that have employed me use "food servers" whose only job is to carry food to tables all night. It is their job to expedite hot food to your table, not the waiter. If you tipped me poorly because my food server failed me, I would be mad at the food server to be sure, but you would be punishing the wrong party... especially considering that I have to TIP OUT that same food server at the end of the night with the minimal funds you're giving me.

I'm glad to hear you're usually a good tipper as long as things run smoothly. But mistakes happen, and a lot of factors go into those mistakes beside your humble server. People need to mellow out more when they go out to eat. Relax. Don't be so high strung about not having the best experience possible. You're there to enjoy the company at your table at the end of the day. Many people have a distorted image about dining out with a lot of attention paid specifically to their waiter, who is but a single member of a very large restaurant staff who are all responsible for your mystical "dining experience." Cough up a few bucks and be a decent person when dining out.

 

[makomachine]

You probably couldn't afford to "frequent" a fine dining establishment like the one I work in, as our regulars are all doctors/lawyers and the like. Servers don't get their "a$$es kicked" for messing with food because you never even know it happens. The moral is simple: don't be a jerk to those who handle your food and drinks when you can't see them. Duh. We servers make our living by acting nice to people we don't really care about -- we can mess with your food and act as sweet as pie to you afterword. Tip properly, don't blame your server for things beyond their control like corkage fees, and your food will be as clean as it is delicious.

Are we done with the fast-food, teenage rebuttal discussion? Can we stay on topic? Let's start another thread if we need to have a tipping debate.

 

[motobrewer]

Most of the 5 restaurants that have employed me use "food servers" whose only job is to carry food to tables all night. It is their job to expedite hot food to your table, not the waiter. If you tipped me poorly because my food server failed me, I would be mad at the food server to be sure, but you would be punishing the wrong party...

lol! so, uh.....what do you say.....you DO here???

take drink order, take food order, b*tch at "food server", drop bill off, collect $300 / night.


j/k! for the most part, anyway....i've obviously had people other than my waiter bring out our food, but i just always assumed it was a busboy or different waiter. I didn't know places really employed people to do nothing but take food from kitchen to table. And usually the nicer the place the more consistently it's our waiter bringing out our food.

and, yes, I have waited and tended bar. also, how much of tips do you usually claim? Is it worse since credit and debit cards took over?

 

[bigbeergeek]

Indeed. No one needs to have their "a$$ kicked, or worse" on this thread!

I think this topic has been pretty well hashed out as far as the OP's question is concerned. Many/most restaurants that serve alcohol will have corkage fees for wine service, and may well have a formal/informal beer corkage fee as well. Bringing great beer to a great meal is a fine idea, but it's recommended to call any establishment first and make sure you're not going to create an awkward situation by bringing in an outside beverage.

 

[bigbeergeek]

lol! so, uh.....what do you say.....you DO here???

take drink order, take food order, b*tch at "food server", drop bill off, collect $300 / night.


j/k! for the most part, anyway....i've obviously had people other than my waiter bring out our food, but i just always assumed it was a busboy or different waiter. I didn't know places really employed people to do nothing but take food from kitchen to table. And usually the nicer the place the more consistently it's our waiter bringing out our food.

and, yes, I have waited and tended bar. also, how much of tips do you usually claim? Is it worse since credit and debit cards took over?

Man, if that's all we had to do to make $300 a night, I think we'd all quit our jobs and become servers!

 

[Airborneguy]

Most of the time, however, the blame falls on the customers themselves.

That's a piss poor attitude. I would do my best to ensure that no one I know, or even more so, anyone I could spread the word to, would not go to a restaurant where ANYTHING is blamed on the customer.

I understand you are attempting to defend yourself and your profession from a few comments that might be off base (although not all of them were), but this statement is flat wrong. I attribute some of that to you working in an expensive place. I've always found that the most expensive places are more likely to treat their customers as if they owe the restaurant something. Considering I can frequent places like yours, and do, my basis for this statement is many, many visits to places like what you are describing yours to be.

 

[eastoak]

Well said. We live/work in a country that has a tradition of tipping our servers rather than paying them hourly for their services. If I didn't make tips, I couldn't support my family. You didn't mention that some of us out there aren't above spitting in your food or rubbing it against the bottom of our shoes before serving it to you. We remember who the jerks are -- and we handle your food and drinks when no one can see us. Try to keep that in mind when out to eat.

wow.......wow. ok.

 

[makomachine]

For the record, I wasn't threatening an 'ass kicking or worse' - just stating what to expect when someone from the south finds gum from the parking lot, or saliva, in their pasta!

That said, I found where Mantels in bricktown does allow for byob with corkage fees on open table.com- but only mentions wine. I called to ask about craft beer and if it was allowed and got an apology saying they didn't know that it was out there, and that it was illegal in Oklahoma. (Even for wine). Confusion on the subject is clearly the theme here anyway...

 

[suprchunk]

LOL at OK being the South.

 

[makomachine]

LOL at OK being the South.

How about Southern Mid-west then! The US census bureau seems to agree anyway!

I have to go to the south to find cooler temperatures!

 

[Germelli1]

lol! so, uh.....what do you say.....you DO here???

BAHAHAHAHAH. Sorry that reference made me laugh so hard and it is so applicable. And wow, big beer geek, I really hope I never have meet you in person.

 

[eastoak]

BAHAHAHAHAH. Sorry that reference made me laugh so hard and it is so applicable. And wow, big beer geek, I really hope I never have meet you in person.

i have a feeling big beer geek hasn't cracked 30 yet so maybe that's why he shoots first then asks questions. it's ironic that this thread is supposed to be about corkage.... lol. i'll put a cork in it now, done with this.

 

[rockfish42]

The restaurants I frequent use the same corkage fee for beer and wine, this is solely in the SF bay area. This fee is anywhere from 5-30 dollars, interestingly the LA Times ran an article about attempting to bring a boxed wine to up scale restaurants and many were fairly receptive with a few declining to bring the box out to the table.

 

[bigbeergeek]

Yawn. Exiting this thread. Glad to be of service to some of the more confused members of the dinging-out public out there. I'm sorry so many people are raised without understanding how the service industry really works and how to behave in public. Why anyone would be upset with someone for simply explaining the way the industry really works is beyond me. Good luck and happy dining fellow brewers.

 

[toman8r]

LOL tipping threads...

A couple years ago I wanted to bring a Lost Abbey Cuvee de Tomme or something to the Chart House in Newport Beach, CA. We called ahead to make sure it would be okay, but were told that they did not allow beer to be brought in. Apparently them serving BMC is acceptable, but their customers bringing in a nice bottle of beer and paying the corkage fee is not.

 

[Bierliebhaber]

I think the horse is dead...but go ahead and beat it a few more times just to make sure.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

LOL I have never seen a thread about tipping that didn't contain exactly the same arguments on any forum, facebook, etc.

 

[Phunhog]

LOL tipping threads...

A couple years ago I wanted to bring a Lost Abbey Cuvee de Tomme or something to the Chart House in Newport Beach, CA. We called ahead to make sure it would be okay, but were told that they did not allow beer to be brought in. Apparently them serving BMC is acceptable, but their customers bringing in a nice bottle of beer and paying the corkage fee is not.

OP here..This is what I figured would happen. Nice to know though that some restaurants have no problem with corkage for beer. Guess who is going to get my business?.....

 

[Dhruv6911]

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