Coopers Brew Kits...

[mbosco]

Hate to pile on, but I agree with most of the responses here. My first brew was also the Coopers lager. Left in primary 2.5 weeks at 68F, bottled and didn't touch it for two weeks and like many have said it was pretty cidery and not particularly enjoyable. Drinkable, yes, but not much more than that. Had a similar result with the Coopers Stout kit.

Switched over to non-hopped extract kits both with and without specialty grains (but no big bags of sugar) and it is a night and day difference. Mine have all been from a LHBS, but the links posted to online sites are just as good.

The Coopers kit was nice in that is was soooo easy, unfortunately I don't see much benefit beyond that. Love the fermentor and it got me started in a new hobby, but I'd look elsewhere for extract kits.

 

[C-Rider]

Hate to pile on, but I agree with most of the responses here. My first brew was also the Coopers lager. Left in primary 2.5 weeks at 68F, bottled and didn't touch it for two weeks and like many have said it was pretty cidery and not particularly enjoyable. Drinkable, yes, but not much more than that. Had a similar result with the Coopers Stout kit.

Switched over to non-hopped extract kits both with and without specialty grains (but no big bags of sugar) and it is a night and day difference. Mine have all been from a LHBS, but the links posted to online sites are just as good.

The Coopers kit was nice in that is was soooo easy, unfortunately I don't see much benefit beyond that. Love the fermentor and it got me started in a new hobby, but I'd look elsewhere for extract kits.

Shouldn't the Cooper's Lager and any other lager ferment in the range 50-55*?
Maybe that was part of the problem. I'm on my 3rd Cooper's Kit and have no real problems, pretty good stuff, better than BMC. But I have moved to Extract and Grains and will soon know the difference.

 

[unionrdr]

Shouldn't the Cooper's Lager and any other lager ferment in the range 50-55*?
Maybe that was part of the problem. I'm on my 3rd Cooper's Kit and have no real problems, pretty good stuff, better than BMC. But I have moved to Extract and Grains and will soon know the difference.

Maybe with the Thomas Cooper's Select lager kit. It uses a lager yeast. The O.S. lager kit uses ale yeast that is best between 68F-72F. I brewed both of my OS lager kits at 20C (69F). They come out pretty good. Crystal clear. Just checked the "Summer Pale" ale I've got in bottles,& it's already very clear amber. My 1st OS lager kit came with brewing sugar,which works way better than straight dextrose. It's 80% dex,20% maltodextrin. I think it made the color & flavor better,as you can see in my avatar.
I'm thinking of using the Cooper's dark ale kit with some plain amber DME to make a whiskely ale.

 

[MrStrangeBrew]

not great beer is better then no beer! sometimes those kits dont use the best of ingredients or sit on the shelves for a long time and they go bad. any LHBS in your area? sometimes they will put kits together for u. a little more pricey but fresh ingrdients and if done right usually great beer is made!

 

[unionrdr]

Good processes make good beer. A bad process will make bad beer out of a good kit. I can't stress this enough. If it comes out bad,hate the brewer,not the brew. All extract brewing has it's own rules,as I'm quickly learning. One of these days,I'll get'em all in my head at once,& write them down.
I get good beer out of cooper's kits,especially when making my own recipes with extracts,hops,etc. I like to call it my "recombinant extract" theory. Different countries add different things to the malts made in them,depending on what's popular there. LME or DME,mix-n-match. Match the hops to the flavors produced by the yeast,& better all around balance can be had. I think that's why a certain style of beer uses a certain type/range of hops. Match'em to the yeast to add complexity/balance. In my experience,it looks that way.

 

[shawnbou]

You are correct about the over-simplification. But that is what makes it attractive to many beginners. "Making Beer the Hard Way", http://www.mnn.com/food/beverages/videos/diy-beer-the-hard-way is not a good marketing strategy to draw in new homebrewers.

I agree 100% with you there, tomheff. Sometimes simple is good. That's why I said I would recommend Coopers as an option to a new homebrewer who's not sure where to start. Coopers does a lot to introduce new brewers to the hobby and is an easier place to start for anyone who is confused and intimidated by the wealth of information online and at the local HBS (which my wife ranks up there with the comic book store as to the degree and intensity of geekdom that's there).

And I don't doubt that there are plenty of people out there making good beer with Coopers kits, just as there are plenty of people out there making terrible beer from all grain.

 

[Vuarra]

...which my wife ranks up there with the comic book store as to the degree and intensity of geekdom that's there

Bingo!

I will never disagree with Yooper, I think (from what I know of her) that she has more beer knowledge in her pinky than I do in my entire house, but I will never stop a beginner from brewing a Coopers. I will tell that person to throw out the instructions, and follow what other people told me to follow a few years ago.

My son just loves Spagetti-ohs! Me, not so much.

I think that we all agree with the basic, but some people are not as interested in the simple cans that are ubiquitous in North America as others are. That's what makes our culture great.

 

[PT Ray]

Good processes make good beer. A bad process will make bad beer out of a good kit..

Precisely!

After revisiting Coopers kits last year for the first time since the early 90's I was sold. It was nothing like I remember when I first started brewing. It's not like brewing with all fresh ingredients but it certainly can hold its own. Most of my brewing over the last year involved Coopers extract and yeast. Sometimes it was extract, partial or a mini-mash. Then there were some all grains in between which most of the time used yeast slurry from a Coopers batch.

 

[unionrdr]

Precisely!

After revisiting Coopers kits last year for the first time since the early 90's I was sold. It was nothing like I remember when I first started brewing. It's not like brewing with all fresh ingredients but it certainly can hold its own. Most of my brewing over the last year involved Coopers extract and yeast. Sometimes it was extract, partial or a mini-mash. Then there were some all grains in between which most of the time used yeast slurry from a Coopers batch.

Glad you agree. I had to douse myself with beer from all the flaming. But I knew that was coming when I sat down at the comp. I just couldn't understand why folks think it's the beer,& not their process. Naaaaw,...couldn't be me!?...lolz. I'm still having fun combining them with other DME's,LME's,hops,etc. But,I'm going to,at some point in the near future,play around with some grains to put back what is chemically lost in concentrating/drying of the wort. Just have to read up on what will match up well with a given can/style. Kind of ironic that you used washed yeast from a Cooper's kit for an AG brew. I like that one!*by the way,does PT Ray mean you're on probetalk.com?

 

[PT Ray]

Kind of ironic that you used washed yeast from a Cooper's kit for an AG brew. I like that one!*by the way,does PT Ray mean you're on probetalk.com?[/FONT]

Coopers yeast is just as good as any other dried yeast. Their Original Series yeast is a proprietary English strain contracted through Mauri who manufactures yeast for the beverage industry out of Australia. Coopers isn't very forth coming about the source for the other strains that they use other than they are commercially available.

The Original Series obviously shines where you want an English flavor. I've also used it down into the low 60's to suppress some of the esters. The yeast that comes with their Premium Selection series is one of my all around favorites. It's an ale/lager blend and ferments well anywhere from 50-68 degrees. If you want to ferment low you will need more than just the 7 gram sachet. That's where I'll repitch about 200ml of slurry for a 5 gallon batch. When I want a true lager I'll break out some White Labs 0830 German Lager yeast.

No I'm not on ProbeTalk. I'm a rotorhead and can be found on Rx7Club.com from time to time.

 

[unionrdr]

I'll have to look it up again,but I found a EU yeast that fit the description of the Cooper's Original Series ale yeast. I'm pretty sure it's called ringwood. Just like the hops used in the OS cans. I remember them saying it was notorious throughout Europe,for something.?...Was curious about the PT thing,since that's our slang for probetalk. I've been on the rx7site. Won best in class with my Probe SE at their Midwest Mazdafest show last May. I've got a vid on youtube about it.
Aaaanyway,I found the yeast in the white/silver sachet is no longer available from many online suppliers. It looked like the ones you mentioned from Cooper's better kits.

 

[PT Ray]

Won best in class with my Probe SE at their Midwest Mazdafest show last May. I've got a vid on youtube about it.
Aaaanyway,I found the yeast in the white/silver sachet is no longer available from many online suppliers. It looked like the ones you mentioned from Cooper's better kits.[/FONT]

I caught your video about a month or so ago. Had some sharp looking Probes along with some Rx7's and 8's. Didn't realize the following Probes had.

Yea, the Premium Selection yeast isn't sold individually. I can get several batches from a harvest and usually take it a couple generations. I know dry yeast is cheap but I always enjoy the results from the repitches more than I do form the initial dry pitch.

 

[unionrdr]

I got the impression from the "sold out" designations that they were available (from manufacturer?),but aren't now. The Ford probe has a huge following all over the world. I just happened to like the way it looks/handles.

 

[jmcdaniel0]

I take it all back. Cooper's are wonderful. You should make them. I think they should be the only beer kits available in the whole world.

I particularly love that a forum member here worked for coopers and has sent me multiple harassing emails daily after I expressed my opinion.

Obviously, if they feel so strongly about my opinion that they have to send me multiple harassing messages, even critiquing my recipes that I posted on this forum for other members, they are an A1, number 1, awesome company. Anybody who cares enough to bombard me with PMs must make a great canned prehopped LME kit.

Oddly enough, he tells me that the Cooper's ARE good if "tweaked" and not made according to the instructions on the can. Hmmmmm. Ok then. I'll buy that.

So, you guys. Buy Coopers prehopped LME "lager" kit. And then buy a can of Spaghettio's. And tweak them with good ingredients. Both will be equally good. But do NOT express a negative opinion, because you'll get PMs. The first ones start out friendly, offering a free kit. but when you turn it down, then the rest get progressively not nice.

Better? Now can the harassment stop?!?!

Cooper's should be ashamed.

That is def. not where I wanted this thread to go. That is way past ridiculous, and moving to absurd.

I proposed a more or less straight forward question, What Coopers kits are decent. With the assumption I had messed my first round. Not which process is better. Obviously these cans are sold to be cheap. With the least amount in the can to maximize profits. With a corporate strategy involved, the beer can only be so good. I only wanted suggestions that others had done to work on my process.

With that said, I have decided to move on to extracts, after doing some research, and all the due diligence i can, I think I can do that, and get far better results. The main point being, with these, the ingredients are better, and I feel that there is less of a Corporate marketing strategy involved. Also, I think there is more room for me to tweak it. Yes, I can tweak the cans, but why buy a can when I am just going to end up changing most of the ingredients anyway? I think Yooper's Analogy of the Chef-Boy-R-Dee can is pretty much spot on. Yes they are edible, but are they really good? Sure my three year old loves em, but I am a big boy now, and I like Big boy food.

To Yooper: I am sorry this world contains so many idiots. Not much i can do about it, but there you have it.

To the Idiots: Grow up and get off the corporate kool-aid.

To everyone else: I appreciate your response, and would love to keep the discussion going on extract brewing, suggestions for me as a newbie, and stuff that you all have tried, and how it worked out for you.

 

[Yooper]

That is def. not where I wanted this thread to go. That is way past ridiculous, and moving to absurd.

I proposed a more or less straight forward question, What Coopers kits are decent. With the assumption I had messed my first round. Not which process is better. Obviously these cans are sold to be cheap. With the least amount in the can to maximize profits. With a corporate strategy involved, the beer can only be so good. I only wanted suggestions that others had done to work on my process.

With that said, I have decided to move on to extracts, after doing some research, and all the due diligence i can, I think I can do that, and get far better results. The main point being, with these, the ingredients are better, and I feel that there is less of a Corporate marketing strategy involved. Also, I think there is more room for me to tweak it. Yes, I can tweak the cans, but why buy a can when I am just going to end up changing most of the ingredients anyway? I think Yooper's Analogy of the Chef-Boy-R-Dee can is pretty much spot on. Yes they are edible, but are they really good? Sure my three year old loves em, but I am a big boy now, and I like Big boy food.

To Yooper: I am sorry this world contains so many idiots. Not much i can do about it, but there you have it.

To the Idiots: Grow up and get off the corporate kool-aid.

To everyone else: I appreciate your response, and would love to keep the discussion going on extract brewing, suggestions for me as a newbie, and stuff that you all have tried, and how it worked out for you.

I'm very very sorry to derail your thread! I was just amazed and flabbergasted about the harassment and I thought people should know.

Anyway, you can make very good beer with extract! Some basic light extract (liquid or dry), a few fresh crushed grains for steeping, a good quality yeast (dry is fine), and proper fermentation temperature control can make a mightly fine beer.

Water is important, too, as that really is most of the beer. Tap water can be fine, as long as your water is chloramine free and chlorine free. (Chlorine can be boiled off, but chloramines can't). RO water from the Wal-mart dispenser works great if your tap water isn't so good, but distilled and spring water are fine too for extract brews. Keeping the temperature during fermentation at 70 degrees or under for most ales will also make a better beer.

Keep in mind we're talking about fermentation temperature, not room temperature! An active fermentation produces heat, and the temperature of the beer can be up to 10 degrees higher than ambient in my experience! A stick-on thermometer is important, like the ones on an aquarium.

 

[jmcdaniel0]

I'm very very sorry to derail your thread! I was just amazed and flabbergasted about the harassment and I thought people should know.

Anyway, you can make very good beer with extract! Some basic light extract (liquid or dry), a few fresh crushed grains for steeping, a good quality yeast (dry is fine), and proper fermentation temperature control can make a mightly fine beer.

Water is important, too, as that really is most of the beer. Tap water can be fine, as long as your water is chloramine free and chlorine free. (Chlorine can be boiled off, but chloramines can't). RO water from the Wal-mart dispenser works great if your tap water isn't so good, but distilled and spring water are fine too for extract brews. Keeping the temperature during fermentation at 70 degrees or under for most ales will also make a better beer.

Keep in mind we're talking about fermentation temperature, not room temperature! An active fermentation produces heat, and the temperature of the beer can be up to 10 degrees higher than ambient in my experience! A stick-on thermometer is important, like the ones on an aquarium.

Mmm, im getting thirsty already! This week end I am getting married, sooo my brewing time has run out until the 14th or so. But my first extract kit has arrived from NB, and im excited. The instructions say 7 weeks... Is that accurate? Should I leave it a bit longer?

 

[jonmohno]

Mmm, im getting thirsty already! This week end I am getting married, sooo my brewing time has run out until the 14th or so. But my first extract kit has arrived from NB, and im excited. The instructions say 7 weeks... Is that accurate? Should I leave it a bit longer?

Whats the OG? NB is usually pretty good about timeframe.They are usually right times,although i think they recommend secondary on alot of kits but secondary is mainly a preference and most of us agree not to secondary in most cases.
Ive made really good beer with Northern Brewer extract.Their emphasis on fresh extract and high turnover makes for a good beer.

 

[windbreaker123]

And then buy a can of Spaghettio's. And tweak them with good ingredients. But I like mine cold and out of the can. Do I have to tweak them ?

 

[jonmohno]

I bet even a good chef would crack open a can o speghettio's to compare apples to apples.

 

[camus]

LMAO at this thread...


When I was in the marine corp I would hike spaghettio's out to the field and heated, they were the bomb with a bit of garlic salt.

Beer in can, LMFAO.

 

[Indyking]

To the OP, coopers kits are good, depending on your expectations. I started with them, and then moved to extract briefly, now just AG. I don’t regret. They got me started to this wonderful hobby. Their kit was affordable and not loaded with too much technical detail that would have intimidated a beginner. Their fermenter is IMHO the best plastic one in the market, much better than the plastic buckets.

Perhaps this was already told here... don't have time to read the whole thread, and from what I gathered briefly, it may not be a bad idea to skip some posts.

For some reason, the instructions in the cooper’s kits were not made to maximize their quality IMO. For instance, ferment and carbonate for much longer time than they recommend and pay attention to your water. Tap water is not always OK. My water for instance is above 300 ppm alkalinity! That's way too much for some styles. Also I found their small yeast pack not very good. My initial brews improved considerable when I fermented them with another dry yeast, usually something from Safale. Finally, I found the fermentation temps recommended to be to high too, so try to keep it in the mid to upper 60's.

 

[unionrdr]

The cooper's ale yeast in the gold sachet isn't designed to ferment below 18C (68F). It seems to me some have tried it,but that's a lil low. I ferment it at 20C (69F),& it works great. Especially in a 1 1/2C starter for a few hours on brew day. More than enough to get a quick,clean,vigorous fermentation. Just maintain proper temps (18-24C,or 68-72F),& you're good. As far as the ale yeast is concerned. And I used spring water this last time,& so far seems to be an improvement.
And I don't buy the "corporate "kool-aid"bs. Let's put away the soap boxes. And yooper...wow I never thought it would get that bad for you. Just for the record folks,yes,yoop & I had some disagreements on this subject. But I never said anything to anyone to jump on her. I say this because I do frequent the cooper's forums. Yes,I've had words with their tech advisor about what I thought was/is ok to do with certain aspects of their kits.
I'm not saying I'm being blamed or whatever. I just feel bad for her. Kinda wish I wouldn't have piped in,since anyone from their site would recognize me. Do any of you ever feel like that? Like you've re-opened Pandora's box,only to regret it?

 

[Indyking]

The cooper's ale yeast in the gold sachet isn't designed to ferment below 18C (68F). It seems to me some have tried it,but that's a lil low. I ferment it at 20C (69F),& it works great.

Like I said my post before, at some point I was not using their yeast anymore because I found others to be better, but I did at least 1 batch with their yeast workiing in the mid 60s, 64-66F, and it worked well.

 

[unionrdr]

Huh. That's interesting (best Jack Sparrow voice). I was curious about using other ale yeasts that work in the 68-72F range myself. Just can't make up my mind. Not to mention,keep a high flocculation rate.

 

[jmcdaniel0]

The cooper's ale yeast in the gold sachet isn't designed to ferment below 18C (68F). It seems to me some have tried it,but that's a lil low. I ferment it at 20C (69F),& it works great. Especially in a 1 1/2C starter for a few hours on brew day. More than enough to get a quick,clean,vigorous fermentation. Just maintain proper temps (18-24C,or 68-72F),& you're good. As far as the ale yeast is concerned. And I used spring water this last time,& so far seems to be an improvement.
And I don't buy the "corporate "kool-aid"bs. Let's put away the soap boxes. And yooper...wow I never thought it would get that bad for you. Just for the record folks,yes,yoop & I had some disagreements on this subject. But I never said anything to anyone to jump on her. I say this because I do frequent the cooper's forums. Yes,I've had words with their tech advisor about what I thought was/is ok to do with certain aspects of their kits.
I'm not saying I'm being blamed or whatever. I just feel bad for her. Kinda wish I wouldn't have piped in,since anyone from their site would recognize me. Do any of you ever feel like that? Like you've re-opened Pandora's box,only to regret it?

Hey, Im not blaming any one person. Im just saying that some one to say

"My company is the best, i know because I work for them, You opinion sucks, and I am right because I work for them and you cant disagree with me etc etc etc." Is absurd. That is the oorah Company kool-aid I am talking about. Anyone that would resort to that to make a point really doesnt have much of one to make.

Yooper stated her opinion, that is what I asked for. I made my decisions based on not just this board but on many other pieces of info.

I like the Raviolis cold however.. Back in my Army days I used to eat those. Still do every now and again.

And here is to friend ship and good beer lol. :fro:

 

[unionrdr]

Not blaming/pointing fingers. It's obvious me & her lock horns now & then,& I just wanted to make the statement I did. Some of my best friends have come from being "lockhorns". Then friends of my whole family. Strange how that works. Anyway,I hope our rantings helped at least a little bit. Cheers,no worries,m8.

 

[windbreaker123]

I was on the spaghettio's forum today and they agree. I don't need to tweak them and coopers sucks!

 

[jmcdaniel0]

So any suggestions for a good extract kit, I already have the caribou slobber, and I am already looking ahead to a good summer time drink. Any suggestions?

 

[unionrdr]

I'm looking at the brewer's best kits at the LHBS,& Midwest,since they're the closest. Some one on here says LD Carlson does the Brewer's Best kits. They have some good stuff out of Kent,OH.

 

[BaldManBrew]

IMO brewers best instructions are nit that great. For the same money go for Midwest supplies, Austin home brew or northern brewer. All great