Cooking Oil vs Fermcap

[Yooper]

You guys know the rules. Stick to the topic. No off topic posts, no personal attacks, etc. I'll clean this up a bit.

Also, snarky remarks will not be tolerated. We have a "points" system as a warning. That may help people remember to mind their manners.

The Golden Rule is the #1 rule.

 

[SanPancho]

You guys know the rules. Stick to the topic. No off topic posts, no personal attacks, etc. I'll clean this up a bit.

Also, snarky remarks will not be tolerated. We have a "points" system as a warning. That may help people remember to mind their manners.

The Golden Rule is the #1 rule.

So just to be clear Azura is free to be as self righteous, deprecating towards others, and annoying as possible but the rest of us should just take the nonsensical ad hominem arguments and attacks and .....?

And apparently now snark and sarcasm are off limits, is that correct? Is this a new policy? And if so is it being enforced fairly in the entire forum? Or just when Azura complains about hurt feelings?

Iask becuase earlier today i saw a snarky comment that was pretty funny, and it didn’t get deleted to my knowledge.

Curious to hear the rationale here ADMIN. And id message you directly but i dont see a way to do that, nor a reason why my post was deleted. Thx

 

[Yooper]

So just to be clear Azura is free to be as self righteous, deprecating towards others, and annoying as possible but the rest of us should just take the nonsensical ad hominem arguments and attacks and .....?

And apparently now snark and sarcasm are off limits, is that correct? Is this a new policy? And if so is it being enforced fairly in the entire forum? Or just when Azura complains about hurt feelings?

Iask becuase earlier today i saw a snarky comment that was pretty funny, and it didn’t get deleted to my knowledge.

Curious to hear the rationale here ADMIN. And id message you directly but i dont see a way to do that, nor a reason why my post was deleted. Thx

Well, we don't discuss these things typically in an open forum. However, I will tell you that there are "points" given against certain actions, and a number of them will lead to permanent banning. Lesser may mean a temporary ban, or other censure.

If your post was deleted, it was because it was argumentative, a response to an off topic post, not applicable to the topic or germaine to the discussion, or may have included a namecalling phrase. If it was snarky, it may have been deleted. If you didn't get a notice with a "warning", or points listed against you, it means that it was most likely a relatively harmless (but off topic or not helpful) post. We have never allowed nasty comments to others, or offensive insults (like Village Idiot- yes, that is an insult). It may be sarcasm, but if it is accompanied by an insult or snarkiness designed to insult a member, it will be removed. That policy has not changed, and it will not change.

You can always send me a note privately, either via the "conversation" part of the forum, where the link is on the upper left or under my name by my avatar if you click my name, or via the "contact us" link on the help pages.

I think that all of us as admins and moderators do a good job of being fair. Consider we are volunteers, and spend our time here for the good of the forum. I spent about an hour of my Friday night just answering the report of this thread, cleaning it up, sending notes to the "bad guys", and assigning warnings on the infractions. I don't play favorites, as I genuinely like everybody that I've interacted with on this forum, and I think I speak (or rather, type) with respect to each member.

You may not know what was said/done to another member. But the behavior will change or they will very quickly disappear from this forum.

We are here to share our hobby with like-minded individuals. We don't all agree, but we must always be respectful of others in those disagreements.

 

[doug293cz]

I was looking to clean this thread up, but @Yooper beat me to it. But, as I was going thru the posts here, there were claims that Simethicone was significantly different than polydimethylsiloxane (dimethicone.) Turns out that Simethicone is just polydimethylsiloxane with SiO2 (probably fumed silica [Cab-O-Sil]) added as a thickener. A filter that would remove yeast cells from the beer might remove the extremely small SiO2 particles, but not remove the silicone polymer. Fine powder SiO2 is a known problem for inhalation (causes silicosis, a lung disease), but I'm not aware of any issues with ingestion. As far as I can tell, neither is better or worse for brewing.

Brew on

 

[triethylborane]

Well, we don't discuss these things typically in an open forum. However, I will tell you that there are "points" given against certain actions, and a number of them will lead to permanent banning. Lesser may mean a temporary ban, or other censure.

If your post was deleted, it was because it was argumentative, a response to an off topic post, not applicable to the topic or germaine to the discussion, or may have included a namecalling phrase. If it was snarky, it may have been deleted. If you didn't get a notice with a "warning", or points listed against you, it means that it was most likely a relatively harmless (but off topic or not helpful) post. We have never allowed nasty comments to others, or offensive insults (like Village Idiot- yes, that is an insult). It may be sarcasm, but if it is accompanied by an insult or snarkiness designed to insult a member, it will be removed. That policy has not changed, and it will not change.

You can always send me a note privately, either via the "conversation" part of the forum, where the link is on the upper left or under my name by my avatar if you click my name, or via the "contact us" link on the help pages.

I think that all of us as admins and moderators do a good job of being fair. Consider we are volunteers, and spend our time here for the good of the forum. I spent about an hour of my Friday night just answering the report of this thread, cleaning it up, sending notes to the "bad guys", and assigning warnings on the infractions. I don't play favorites, as I genuinely like everybody that I've interacted with on this forum, and I think I speak (or rather, type) with respect to each member.

You may not know what was said/done to another member. But the behavior will change or they will very quickly disappear from this forum.

We are here to share our hobby with like-minded individuals. We don't all agree, but we must always be respectful of others in those disagreements.

Is the policy to notify individuals of points assessed against them or no? Some of my posts are deleted but rarely do I ever get any remark justifying the action. Or is this just your SOP?

 

[Yooper]

Is the policy to notify individuals of points assessed against them or no? Some of my posts are deleted but rarely do I ever get any remark justifying the action. Or is this just your SOP?

The points come with a written explanation of the warning. If other posts are deleted as being off topic, sometimes that is annotted to the person, but sometimes if there are lots of deletions (like in this thread), the posts that are simply deleted as off topic are not generally annotated for the users because it would have to be individually done.

 

[JohnSand]

Returning to topic: Using oil to suppress foam is interesting. Keep us posted on your efforts. I currently use only a large kettle and flame control to prevent boiling over. (Okay, stirring too) On very cold days I brew inside with a smaller kettle on a glass top stove. Any wort spilled burns onto the stove top, so preventing that is key to a happy marriage.

 

[MaxStout]

One aspect of the vegetable oil use--has anyone noticed any effect on head-retention? Or does the oil break down at some time during fermentation?

That was always my concern with Fermcap. Despite people stating it doesn't affect head retention, I noticed a reduction in my poured beers, compared to those in which I never used Fermcap.

 

[November]

Interesting. I use five-star defoamer 105. I'm brewing now and I was about to add it. I'll sub a vegetable oil and see how that works.

I'm making a Japanese style adjunct lager so if it kills the head it won't be a big deal. Also, there won't be a lot of room for an off flavor to hide.

I'm off to check the pantry for oil, I'll report back.

 

[November]

Ok, going with canola oil. It's the most neutral oil I have.

@Azura said about 1 tsp for 5 gals so I scaled to 3 tsp since I'm doing a half barrel.

There's going to be about 19 gallons in a 22 gallon tank. Usually, the defoamer handles this with not stirring or spraying.

Defoamer for reference, but I'll leave it out.



3 tsp of canola oil

 

[November]

One aspect of the vegetable oil use--has anyone noticed any effect on head-retention? Or does the oil break down at some time during fermentation?

That was always my concern with Fermcap. Despite people stating it doesn't affect head retention, I noticed a reduction in my poured beers, compared to those in which I never used Fermcap.

I've never noticed a problem when I use the defoamer but I've never done a side by side.

I should have split this batch and did it with oil, defoamer, and nothing but I don't have the set up to do it so it will be up to some degree of interpretation.

 

[JohnSand]

It will be interesting to see your results.

 

[November]

194F
I'm getting concerned...

 

[November]

Woah, so it hit 200 and I thought for sure it was going to boil over, and then as it started to bubble it all broke up.

Here it is at a rolling boil.

205F, due to elevation.

 

[November]

Boiling away now with no problems.

Looks like it never got past maybe 1/4 inch of foam or so. So far it's pretty much up to the same performance as my usual defoamer.

Big questions now are, will it affect the head and will it have a flavor effect...

Update, no photo cause it's too reflective, but post whirlpool and rest I can't see any oil on the surface.

 

[JohnSand]

It may have all emulsified. I wonder if some of it cooks off?

 

[MaxStout]

Only 1/4" foam and it looks like it dissipated once the boil started rolling. I'll be curious to hear what effects, if any, it has on head and flavor. Thanks for sharing.

 

[November]

It may have all emulsified. I wonder if some of it cooks off?

I'm not sure. I'm not a scientist, I walk a dog for a living, so I'll leave it to smarter folk than me to figure that out. Every time that I lean towards one, I think of an argument for the other.

Only 1/4" foam and it looks like it dissipated once the boil started rolling. I'll be curious to hear what effects, if any, it has on head and flavor. Thanks for sharing.

I'm curious too. To be honest, I didn't think it would work so I'm already pretty pleased. This beer is 2 row and rice. Lots of rice. So if there is an off flavor it's going to show.

 

[C-Rider]

I just use a sqirt bottle w/plain old water in it to prevent boil over.

 

[NGD]

I just use a sqirt bottle w/plain old water in it to prevent boil over.

The internet is no place for common sense.

 

[sonic7173]

The internet is no place for common sense.

Neither is my place of work [emoji23]. But seriously keep us updated November. Curious to hear the end results

 

[divrack]

I just squirt a bunch of fairy liquid in. The fresh pine scent goes well with an IPA.

 

[BitterSweetBrews]

I have a friend that owns a brewery. I asked him about fermcap once. He mentioned that he used it as a home brewer but the FDA will not let them use it in their brewery. I think he said it was because they don't filter and it was silicone based. They use an organic de-foaming agent. I believe he said it was based on vegetable oil. I am not sure what it is.

 

[cabron99]

Been brewing since 2008. I have used a spray bottle all that time. Good Lord, I'm tired of staring at a boiling pot!!! Looking forward to the taste results!

 

[V-Fib]

Tomorrow I will be doing an 8.5 gallon (final volume) batch in a 10 gal Spike Brewing kettle. At the start I should have about 1" of clearance to the top of the kettle.

I'm going to start with avocado oil and go with 1.5-2 tsp, if it fails I'll have fermcap on hand.

The part that worries me the most is the 1.6 oz of pellet hops I'm adding at the 60 min mark. I'm thinking I'll add them super slow over about 5 minutes total.

I'll update tomorrow night with the results.

 

[JohnSand]

Do add the hops slowly, it helps. When I used to brew five gallon batches in a 5gal kettle, I would start with about 3.5 with first runnings. Sparged wort was added after hot break, to about 4. More as it boiled down. Then I would top off with water at cooling, and again in the fermenter.

 

[Toga]

Curious to see how the experiments turn out. Please post updates when the beers are packaged and consumed.

 

[V-Fib]

We'll see in about 75 minutes. I'm going to add 1.5 tsp close to 200 degrees of the avocado oil into a 9.5 gallon boil in a 10 gallon kettle. This leaves me with about 1.75" of wiggle room.

 

[hammy1983]

Anyone else find this argument funny? Arguing ingredients in where the end product is poison to the human body.

 

[SlitheryDee]

Source?

We're all very aware of the health issues regarding some cooking oils, and fermcap, (simethicone), is approved for use in adults, children, and infants. There are no known side effects. So what do you know that no one else does?

Wait. Fermcap is simethicone? We give that to our baby in the form of infant gas drops. Lolol