Consistent over attenuation

[Just_another_drunkard_666]

Not sure this is the correct space for this but last 3 brews I made have been heavily over attenuated ( all around 89-92 percent).

One a galaxy pale ale with nottingham mashed at around 148 -149 ... missed my temp but I dont think that would account for it getting that high.

One a mixed fermentation - us05 and sour pitch. Mashed at 154

Another pale ale mashed at 152.


The only thing I can think of is late winter I bottled a cider that had been I'm secondary in a carboy I had made a Brett saison in like 2 years ago ... completely forgot and I'm assuming bugs could be around. so my bottling wand, transfer hoses etc. came in contact. Is this sound thinking? Do I replace all my plastic and ****? Can this spread to my kegs etc. if thats actually the case?

 

[day_trippr]

I would like to see more details on these three batches - a simple listing or table with the mash temp, OG, FG, and what was pitched.
There's just not enough extant to work with here...

Cheers!

 

[Just_another_drunkard_666]

No worries.


1. 148 mash, notty pitched. 1.052 -1.004. 92% attenuation

2. 154 mash. Us05 Co pitched with lallemand sour pitch. Raspberries added later in fermentation which maybe accounts for some peculiarities.1.044 - 1.004. 89.7% fermentation

3. 152 mash. Us05. 1.050 - 1.004
91.7 % attenuation.

All dropping to the same actually lol. All attenuation levels from beersmith. But much higher than planned.

 

[Just_another_drunkard_666]

No worries.


1. 148 mash, notty pitched. 1.052 -1.004. 92% attenuation

2. 154 mash. Us05 Co pitched with lallemand sour pitch. Raspberries added later in fermentation which maybe accounts for some peculiarities.1.044 - 1.004. 89.7% fermentation

3. 152 mash. Us05. 1.050 - 1.004
91.7 % attenuation.

All dropping to the same actually lol. All attenuation levels from But much lower than planned.

 

[day_trippr]

Ok, so I can't speak to Nottingham having never used it, but for sure the US-05 batches fermented well beyond spec into outlier territory. And I've not done any kettle souring ala the Lallemand Sour Pitch, but I gather that bacteria mix doesn't really change gravity, so I wouldn't finger that as a factor.

Was there anything visible with these batches that might suggest the presence of something other than the pitched yeast?

Cheers!

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Just so I'm understanding number 3 was a non-sour US05? Was same equipment from the soured brews used?

 

[Just_another_drunkard_666]

Just so I'm understanding number 3 was a non-sour US05? Was same equipment from the soured brews used?

Yes, but from all research I've done the lallemand sour pitch is extremely hop intolerant, and there's really little fear of it affecting hoppy brews. And i had the same issue with the prior brew before the sour.

 

[day_trippr]

We need a beer Dick Tracey on this case

If the Lallemand bacteria blend doesn't really affect gravity much, it shouldn't matter if the second batch somehow contaminated the third batch, and certainly would not explain the first batch with Notty...

Cheers!

 

[TheBluePhantom]

Do they taste/feel over attenuated? How did you measure the gravity? have you checked the calibration? Just wondering if this is an instrumentation failure...

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Your brewhouse is too efficient. Therefore, adjust BeerSmith accordingly.

 

[Jag75]

Could diastaticus be the issue?

 

[Just_another_drunkard_666]

Visible no weirdness, and taste wise no as well. Other than an obvious lack of body I'm assuming due to lower gravity

 

[Just_another_drunkard_666]

Your brewhouse is too efficient. Therefore, adjust BeerSmith accordingly.

I've been consistently having low efficiency in beersmith prior to any of this.

Do they taste/feel over attenuated? How did you measure the gravity? have you checked the calibration? Just wondering if this is an instrumentation failure...

Checked with three hydrometers and tested in water prior. Taste not so much, doesn't linger but fell, yes fairly thin to my taste

 

[Just_another_drunkard_666]

Your brewhouse is too efficient. Therefore, adjust BeerSmith accordingly.

Worth a look though I can't see where it would be off

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Milling grains differently? Or, different mash?

 

[bracconiere]

i've had beer go to 1.000, without my usual gluco. just because i ferment at room temp which can be as high as 85f....what was the ferm temp?

 

[day_trippr]

90+% attenuation using US-05 is not going to be explained by crush, mash profile, or anything else fathomable in any "normal brew process" context. Yes, instrumentation could be the root issue, as could some not-out-of-a-sachet bug...

Cheers!

 

[Just_another_drunkard_666]

Milling grains differently? Or, different mash?

don't own a mill but recently started picking up from a different shop. About the time of the first of my "problematic" brews.
I considered it when I first used their graiks but from the data I collected (post mash gravity wtv else beersmith has fields for) it didn't really change efficiency. Apart from readings not sure how else I could figure that out. Water absorption seems no different.

 

[Just_another_drunkard_666]

i've had beer go to 1.000, without my usual gluco. just because i ferment at room temp which can be as high as 85f....what was the ferm temp?

Ferm temps mid 60s. 66, 64, 68 respectively. Have a dedicated temp controlled fridge for fermentation

 

[DBhomebrew]

Mash thermometer calibration? Mash timer running slow?

 

[Just_another_drunkard_666]

90+% attenuation using US-05 is not going to be explained by crush, mash profile, or anything else fathomable in any "normal brew process" context. Yes, instrumentation could be the root issue, as could some not-out-of-a-sachet bug...

Cheers!

That's why I think, as mentioned in original post, it came from an old carboy i used Brett in years ago. Put a cider in it without even thinking and used the same hose on other **** I'm sure. That was the last thing I bottled prior to keggin the notty brew

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

All grain has lactic acid on it. If the mill is not properly cleaned, is the lactic acid and/or other being passed onto others milling and lowering the mash pH to a more efficient range?

 

[bracconiere]

Ferm temps mid 60s. 66, 64, 68 respectively. Have a dedicated temp controlled fridge for fermentation

well i'm out then, the only other thing i have would be is this a tilt? with the fridge, you could be fancy.....

 

[DBhomebrew]

It's not a question of efficiency. OG and volumes are reported as hitting expected numbers. It's attenuation that's off the charts.

Do these recent recipes have a bunch of simple sugars such as table sugar, Belgian candi, or invert?

Most attenuation prediction doesn't take grist into account.

 

[MaxStout]

One way to isolate the Brett theory. Sanitize the crap out of the carboy, do another brew. See if the over-attenuation recurs.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

If the wort is more fermentable or a wild yeast is present, then yes, the attenuation will be higher than expected.

 

[Just_another_drunkard_666]

90+% attenuation using US-05 is not going to be explained by crush, mash profile, or anything else fathomable in any "normal brew process" context. Yes, instrumentation could be the root issue, as could some not-out-of-a-sachet bug...

Cheers!

That's why I think, as mentioned in original post, it came from an old carboy i used Brett in years ago. Put a cider in it without even thinking and used the same hose on other **** I'm sure. That was the last thing I bottled prior to keggin the notty brew

well i'm out then, the only other thing i have would be is this a tilt? with the fridge, you could be fancy.....

Nah Plastic bucket

 

[Just_another_drunkard_666]

One way to isolate the Brett theory. Sanitize the crap out of the carboy, do another brew. See if the over-attenuation recurs.

Different carboy. But some tubing touched both

 

[Just_another_drunkard_666]

It's not a question of efficiency. OG and volumes are reported as hitting expected numbers. It's attenuation that's off the charts.

Do these recent recipes have a bunch of simple sugars such as table sugar, Belgian candi, or invert?

Most attenuation prediction doesn't take grist into account.

Nope. Grains hops yeast.

Sour had raspberries so yes that's xtra

 

[MaxStout]

Different carboy. But some tubing touched both

Tubing is often a culprit for infections. Replace the tubing. If you still get over-attenuation, it's not the Brett.

 

[DBhomebrew]

My understanding is that Brett is a slow eater. Has enough time elapsed after transfer for the Brett to have taken effect? Or are we looking at the usual two or so weeks of primary fermentation?

 

[DBhomebrew]

Mash timer running slow?

I was joking here, but what were your mash times?

 

[Just_another_drunkard_666]

Was going to be brewing and kegging Saturday. I suppose I'll grab some new buckets and see if that makes a difference ... can this problem take over a keg?

I was joking here, but what were your mash times?

1 hr.

Actually the 148-149 I went a little longer. Not by much, 15 minutes. Dunno if that's enough to have serious side effects. maybe?

My understanding is that Brett is a slow eater. Has enough time elapsed after transfer for the Brett to have taken effect? Or are we looking at the usual two or so weeks of primary fermentation?

Two weeks.

 

[Just_another_drunkard_666]

I know 148 and longer could account for a highly fermntable mash but still seems high

 

[MaxStout]

One other thought: were you adding amylase enzyme, either to the mash or in the fermenter? That can result in lower FG.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Do you mash out? Has your lauter time changed?

 

[DuncB]

Bit late to this but any dry hopping?
I'd be thinking that your mash has made a very attenuative wort either due to a temperature error or timing.
Do you mash out?
I've had a US05 fully attenuate a ginger beer that had sugar as it's only fermentable.
Not sure that the Brett would be able to work that quickly even with a coferment and I think you'd notice the brett in the beer taste and expect the FG to perhaps drop even more in the bottle. Seems a lot of hop creep though if that was the cause.

I didn't manage to get my recent lo cal NEIPA with enzymes down to your levels only reached 1.005 and I was aiming for 1.000.

Did you correct both the OG and FG to 20 celsius for your hydrometer?

You haven't had Belgian ale yeast anywhere near this lot by any chance ?

Was the cider a wild ferment ? You mention that the cider was the last thing you bottled before kegging the beer, but the gravity readings you give were before or during the kegging process so they weren't exposed to any aliens if any in the tubing until ferment had finished.

 

[Just_another_drunkard_666]

Both pale ales were dry hopped, the co ferment no hops. Cider was not a wild ferment, fermented with notty and pasteurized juice.

Same day I bottled the cider also bottled a belgian triple, it was fermented with safale be-256 because at the time the shop I was going to had nothing else.

Mash out not really. Always one hr mash. Batch sparge using brew Smith mash calculations. Haven't changed mash times, although I have been lautering slower.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Haven't changed mash times, although I have been lautering slower.

How much slower? Without a mash out, a long lauter would in effect lengthen the mash.

Do you flame on when there's just enough wort in the kettle? Or do you wait until the entire 1st, or more significantly 2nd, runoff is complete?

 

[MicroMickey]

Have you ever checked your hydrometer for accuracy?
If it's reading okay, try mashing at a higher temp; say 158 to 160 and see what that does.