Consensus on what next after bottles??

[Grinder12000]

Is there any kind of consensus on what is the next step after 48 bottles of brew?

Party Pig? TAP-A-DRAFT? I'm looking for something that is portable.

I have read that

Party Pig has problems with the Pressure Pouch and TAP-A-DRAFT has CO2 problems??

Anyone with GOOD results??

 

[mmb]

Corny kegs are the next step to consider with some sort of draft system.

From what I read, Party-Pig and Tap A Draft are options but everyone(?) who does them seems to go to a full draft system eventually.

 

[HighPlainsDrifter]

Two liter bottles, growlers, or really step it up and start kegging. The growlers are not really made to hold pressure so be careful with those, but the two liter bottles are and work great in a pinch. The only draw back is once you open them, you have to drink the contents within a couple hours or it will go flat. There is a special cap that is made that you can pressurize with after opening that will extend shelf life a little (maybe a day or two).

 

[flyangler18]

I debated getting the portable draft systems (Party Pig and TAP-A-DRAFT) when I decided to move beyond bottling- but I soon realized that they would be an intermediate step between bottling and kegging. If you want portability, a 5 gallon cornie pushed with portable keg chargers are great for parties- but expect to use one disposable CO2 cartridge/gallon in serving. It's easy to modify a 20oz paintball tank to carb/serve.

 

[BigKahuna]

I vote for paying your penance! Get 20,000 bottle caps. When you've used them up, you'll have earned the right to keg....or just consider yourself privileged and get the damn keg setup anyway.
I think that this is an issue (Fought with it for a long time myself) that need not be worked through in steps. Bottles work great, and don't ever expect to get away from them. They are your friend. BUT...If you are certain that you want more...you'll eventually end up with kegs and taps and a spare refrigerator anyway, so why shell out the money on the stuff leading up to it? Just get the kegs to start with.

 

[Grinder12000]

My problem is that I want to make sure I have GOOD beer I can repeat. Plus even though my wife who is all for beer making (even though she is not a beer drinker) has backed me I don't want to shell out big bucks ($200) on 5g batches.

However - I do look at the future as I have a local person watching my progress as an investor and he has mentioned SEVERAL times about starting a brewery / brew pub and backing me financially.

 

[Ecnerwal]

22-24 bottles of brew works nicely. Collect USA "Champagne" / sparking wine bottles and /or Martinelli's Sparkling cider bottles. 750ml = Less bottles to fill, good anytime you are sharing a beer with others, no pouch or canister fuss.

Or 7-10 bottles - 2 or 3 liter plastic soda bottles. Won't break at the beach.

Or a mix of all the above. Trick being to have a size or size mixture that suits the amount you are drinking - ie, if having a liter and a half, 2 750mL sparkling wine bottles are better than a 2 or 3 liter soda bottle.

Obviously, store any clear/green bottles in the dark. I just store all bottles in the dark.

Get a bench capper if you don't have one.

 

[flyangler18]

My problem is that I want to make sure I have GOOD beer I can repeat. Plus even though my wife who is all for beer making (even though she is not a beer drinker) has backed me I don't want to shell out big bucks ($200) on 5g batches.

Then it's process and not packaging that you should be focusing on your attention on. Consistent, repeatable results come from dialing in on your equipment and taking good notes to identify future problems, etc. If there is a downside to kegging, it's that the temptation to consume green beer is high because you can force carb in three days. Bottle conditioning helps any harsh notes mellow/flavors mellow as well as carbonating. When I keg, I 'set and forget' @ around 12 psi and let them come to equilibrium-- so those beers might sit for a month before I tap and serve.

 

[Ecnerwal]

However - I do look at the future as I have a local person watching my progress as an investor and he has mentioned SEVERAL times about starting a brewery / brew pub and backing me financially.

The way to ruin a good hobby is to try and make money at it. Suddenly it becomes a job, and "making good beer" is fighting with "fast turnaround" and "less cost" and other detractions. Tread carefully.

 

[BigKahuna]

The way to ruin a good hobby is to try and make money at it. Suddenly it becomes a job, and "making good beer" is fighting with "fast turnaround" and "less cost" and other detractions. Tread carefully.

AND...
I would not fee comfortable trying to brew commercially knowing full well that brewers with decades more experience and LOADS more technical knowledge...right down to chemical compositions of different hop oils, and tons of formal training, have tried and failed to produce a beer that succeeds in the open market. How many years do you have to apprentice at a brewery before they will let you even touch a hop leaf? And there you are exposed to 10's of thousands of gallons of beer, and you brew nearly every day. Just because you make a beer that you and your friends seem to like ok, doesn't mean that you can make a beer that will compete with the Big Dogs on the Premium Micro Brew shelf....not to say you can't...but it takes as much luck as skill, and those that have been there will usually advise against it...or at least give stern words of caution.

 

[RockfordWhite]

No offense but i've heard countless people on this board and others talk about how they are going to eventually start a brewery based on their homebrew success (or no success at all sometimes...)

 

[ChshreCat]

On the OP's first topic...

Kegging isn't an option for all of us. I for one have no room for a keezer in my apartment but would like to go beyond bottling. After reading up on people's experiences, I'm leaning towards a TAD system. The main reason being the 3 bottles per batch instead of 2 pigs, so the bottles are smaller and don't hog the fridge (pun intended) like the party pigs do. The CO2 problems in the TAD seem to be solved when people alternate replacing cartridges rather than swapping them both out at once.

 

[Grinder12000]

OH - I agree totally and if ANYTHING would come of this we are talking 5 years down the road. Understand completely. I actually was not the one that brought up the idea as it's absurd. But when a guy that owns have of a town talks . . . . . .

That is why I'm looking at Party Pigs - just a small step up. I have been asked to bring homebrew to a local pub. People want something besides macro brew - they have never tasted Ale.

 

[flyangler18]

You may want to try using a if a dedicated draft system is outside of your means. You can force carb a portion of a batch while still bottle conditioning the majority. You'd still need the CO2 tank, obviously.

 

[CBBaron]

My recommendation is to go for kegs if you can.
If you can't then Pigs do work well, however they are more expensive to use than bottles. It is important to use fresh pouches and not ones you have stored for a year. And it can be a little difficult to activate the pouch. However once the beer the pouch is activated the system is very easy to use and fits nicely in most refrigerators.
I have a couple Pigs however my vote would still be to continue bottling and save up for a real kegging system.

Craig

 

[mmb]

That is why I'm looking at Party Pigs - just a small step up. I have been asked to bring homebrew to a local pub. People want something besides macro brew - they have never tasted Ale.

In Michigan, food service laws prohibit a third party bringing food in for public consumption that hasn't be prepared in a certified kitchen.

On top of that, alcohol laws would most likely prohibit consumption of alcohol that hasn't been bought through the state's liquor commission in a licensed establishment.

Just a heads up.

 

[Ecnerwal]

I have been asked to bring homebrew to a local pub. People want something besides macro brew - they have never tasted Ale.

Unless you are in some place with very weird laws, DON'T. There are many laws hedging public consumption (even if no sale is involved) of alcohol, and most of them have extremely large fines attached. Sale only makes them worse. If you haven't jumped the legal hoops to make yourself a licensed (and taxed, of course - the whole reason the govt. loves to regulate the stuff) producer who can wholesale a quantity to the pub all legal and proper, DO NOT GO THERE.

 

[RC0032]

On the OP's first topic...

Kegging isn't an option for all of us. I for one have no room for a keezer in my apartment but would like to go beyond bottling. After reading up on people's experiences, I'm leaning towards a TAD system. The main reason being the 3 bottles per batch instead of 2 pigs, so the bottles are smaller and don't hog the fridge (pun intended) like the party pigs do. The CO2 problems in the TAD seem to be solved when people alternate replacing cartridges rather than swapping them both out at once.

Link to TAD system or definition

 

[ChshreCat]

TAD= Tap-a-Draft

 

[TeleTwanger]

I've been bottling beer for about 10 years now...I don't really have a problem with it. That being said the only next step I would take is to get a 3 or 5 gallon cornie keg sytem.

 

[CBBaron]

My problem is that I want to make sure I have GOOD beer I can repeat. Plus even though my wife who is all for beer making (even though she is not a beer drinker) has backed me I don't want to shell out big bucks ($200) on 5g batches.

I read this as you are currently doing small batches?

I think moving to 5gallon batch size is a very good idea if you drink beer. Doing a 5gal AG batch can be done nicely with about $100-$150 in equipment. Drink cooler for an MLT (Kewler Kits are the nice way to convert the cooler), Turkey fryer and immersion chiller. Each batch will only cost about $20. Using the same cooler you can do large PM batches on the stove or even your current small AG batches allowing you to upgrade the brewery slowly.

I still say bottle until you can get a kegging system.

And as mentioned share your brew with friends at home or at a party, not at a pub or other public place.

Craig

 

[Grinder12000]

Well - The Kurth Brewery IS where friends are - but they no longer brew their own beer there (was the largest brewery in the US before it burned down).

I make 5g batches now - 8 batches under my belt and all go fast with compliments.

On a side note.

countless people on this board and others talk about how they are going to eventually start a brewery based on their homebrew success

It's really not because of the lack of being able to brew beer that keeps 99.9% of people NOT doing this. It's the lack of knowing how to do it and a money problem. I know two people that have opened their own brewery that were home brewers (Grumpy Troll and Bull Falls). The hard part is not the beer making process, it's the business knowledge and the realization that it is a LOT of hard work and the need for oodles of cash.

But if you truly love making beer THAT part is not the hard work. Remember Sam Calagione of Dogfish Head started a brew pub making four 10g batches of beer a day.

I love making beer more then drinking it - but I know that a brewery in my future is a VERY remote idea even though I have backing. I just want to keep things progressing . . . just in case. Keep moving forward slowly, keep gaining knowledge.

 

[MoRoToRiUm]

I have an Avanti mini keg server and five mini kegs if your interested- After dealing with mini-kegging two or three batches, I scored two 20lbps CO2 tanks and three cornies for free... Next thing you now I'm proud owner of a Sanyo 4912 (among a few other things).

I do find it easier kegging an entire batch into kegs and force-carbing a lot easier then worrying about priming and this that and the other (Even though it is only one more step).

Now I just wish I had room for a bigger fridge and a better fermenter!

 

[flyangler18]

The hard part is not the beer making process, it's the business knowledge and the realization that it is a LOT of hard work and the need for oodles of cash.

I disagree- the hardest part is having two batches of the same recipe taste exactly the same....again and again and again. It's about having a repeatable process with a minimum of variables and snafus.

 

[Grinder12000]

I disagree- the hardest part is having two batches of the same recipe taste exactly the same....again and again and again. It's about having a repeatable process with a minimum of variables and snafus.

But that can be a learned process and if you enjoy making beer it can be overcome. Having business knowledge to make money is a completely different skill set that has nothing to do with making beer.

It's like being a cook - if you LOVE cooking you can become a great cook, but that will not overcome ignorance in business sense and handling employee problems.

You can make the best beer in the world and fail at opening a viable brewery. But you can make average beer and run a good brew pub. Although it would be harder LOL

NOT TRYING TO ARGUE!

 

[Chriso]

Grinder, for you, I recommend one of two things.

1) Just go the full-blown keg route. It's worth it. Read the stickies, think through the process, and if you think it'll be something you like, well, I recommend you get 8 kegs, a CO2 tank, some bulk O-Rings from McMaster, and go the keg route. You can get by on a picnic tap indefinitely, you don't have to turn it into a full blown 8-tap keezer. (Although I'm aiming that direction, myself.)

2) Get a carbonator cap and a bunch of 2L plastic soda bottles. (link: The Carbonator Cap ) Why, you ask? You get to buy the CO2 tank, but don't have to splurge on the rest of the expense. Also works on 1L tonic water bottles, or 20oz soda bottles. Portability. Convenience. Low start up cost. Plus, if you decide to go full-blown kegging, you already have the CO2 tank and regulator.

I've only met one person who uses a Pig, and he's not a fan. They're finicky and somewhat gimmicky. Me, I like my cornies.

But you can make average beer and run a good brew pub.

You're tellin' me. We've got one of those in town here. And I've stopped and drank at a handful of others. One in K.C. comes to mind.

 

[RockfordWhite]

It's really not because of the lack of being able to brew beer that keeps 99.9% of people NOT doing this. It's the lack of knowing how to do it and a money problem.

Didn't you just contradict yourself... not being able to...lack of knowing...

Anyways, yeah I am going to have to say consistency is the hardest part... I understand the business stuff is hard, but when you are trying to control a biological reaction like fermentation and have every batch come out the exact same... I can't do it for 5 gallon batches i couldn't imagine doing larger ones...

 

[Grinder12000]

Yea but how many have you done. 200? 300? And you are correct - sentence typo.

I'm on a 52 batch a year rate and I have to think that I would need 5 years or 250 batchs before I would even consider going into a real business.

Plus - like a fish tank larger is actually easier from what I have heard.

 

[Grinder12000]

The problem with kegs is you must use the entire 5 gallons right?? I LIKE bottles for some things - I have 6 or 7 different beers hanging around - would like some 2.5g vehicle but I have not heard any raving reviews.

 

[ChshreCat]

Far as I know, you don't have to have 5 gallons in a keg. If that were the case, then the beer would go bad after drinking half.