Consecration Russian River Clone question

[GJOCONNELL]

Hi all,

I pitched the chunks from the more beer kit into the frementer this past weekend after letting it sit for 10 months @ 68 f following the temp instructions for primary & 2nd fermentation and followed the pitch schedule to the button. Anytime the frementer was open I hit the top with a blanket of co2 to help limit oxidation.

Anyway when I cracked the lid to pitch the chunks I noticed the currants at the top had individual white dots on them but the smell of the beer and taste seemed fine.

Should I be worried about the white dots? I pitched the barrel chunks and closed and sealed up the lid and blasted it with more CO2.

Figure someone on here might have experienced this previously. I took and tasted a sample and the wort was down to 1.001 but I did make a DME with water mixture and let the chunks sit in them @ 70 f for a week so I added a little sugar for the yeast to feast on.

 

[microbusbrewery]

Fruit can mold in the fermenter when it's floating on top which is why wineries and increasingly breweries perform punch downs on the fruit. It could be mold, could be a pellicle, could just be yeast...a picture would help.

 

[GJOCONNELL]

I punched it down with a clean and star sanned paddle. I will take a peek and see if I can get a picture tonight. Based on looking at pellicice pictures it looked like a small pellicle.

 

[passedpawn]

I've made concecration clones a few times. Leave it closed and don't mess with it often. Allow too much O2 in there early and you'll end up with vinegar / salad dressing. At least that happens with the mix of bugs in the Roeselare yeast.

I let my first one go for about a year. Second two batches 6 months. IMO that was the sweet spot. I added cherries too.

 

[GJOCONNELL]

I've made concecration clones a few times. Leave it closed and don't mess with it often. Allow too much O2 in there early and you'll end up with vinegar / salad dressing. At least that happens with the mix of bugs in the Roeselare yeast.

I let my first one go for about a year. Second two batches 6 months. IMO that was the sweet spot. I added cherries too.

I left it sealed for essentially six months after I pitched the second batch of yeast and added the currants. No vinegar/salad dressing taste at all. It smells spot on and color is pretty close.

 

[GJOCONNELL]

Fruit can mold in the fermenter when it's floating on top which is why wineries and increasingly breweries perform punch downs on the fruit. It could be mold, could be a pellicle, could just be yeast...a picture would help.

Here are the pics I snapped this evening. I blasted with a CO2 blanket again and then topped off the airlock.

 

[andrewmaixner]

I've made concecration clones a few times. Leave it closed and don't mess with it often. Allow too much O2 in there early and you'll end up with vinegar / salad dressing. At least that happens with the mix of bugs in the Roeselare yeast.

I let my first one go for about a year. Second two batches 6 months. IMO that was the sweet spot. I added cherries too.

Were your second and third batches using manufacturer-new Roselare, or 2nd/3rd use? (I ask because it's almost universally noticed that that on reuse it sours much quickly.) I've got a batch at 5 months now, almost ready to taste-test, check gravity, maybe bottle it soon.

 

[passedpawn]

Were your second and third batches using manufacturer-new Roselare, or 2nd/3rd use? (I ask because it's almost universally noticed that that on reuse it sours much quickly.) I've got a batch at 5 months now, almost ready to taste-test, check gravity, maybe bottle it soon.

Great question. IIRC, 2nd and 3rd gen. I understand the bug ratio changes over time. But I'm sure the first batch peaked at 6 months.

 

[GJOCONNELL]

any comments on the photos?

 

[andrewmaixner]

Great question. IIRC, 2nd and 3rd gen. I understand the bug ratio changes over time. But I'm sure the first batch peaked at 6 months.

Did you record what the final gravities were?
Debating whether to bottle or not. I have high-pressure bottles to use, and the 'official recommendations' from Vinnie say he won't bottle till it's under 1.008.

I checked mine today (6 months exactly since non-Sach organisms added) and it has dropped completely clear, the gravity is down to 1.005 at 6 months of ~60-65F. The taste is good, slightly tannic/dry. I'd estimate 3.7pH, not palate wrecking, but notably tart. (I had also added dregs from 4 different quality sour and wild ales)

I am hoping now is a reasonable time to bottle, because I want to start a new batch on the culture shortly.
Alternately, I could rack to a 5Gal vessel with oak and a little finished cabernet or some grenache/cabernet juice ... that might be a good option

 

[passedpawn]

Did you record what the final gravities were?
Debating whether to bottle or not. I have high-pressure bottles to use, and the 'official recommendations' from Vinnie say he won't bottle till it's under 1.008.

I checked mine today (6 months exactly since non-Sach organisms added) and it has dropped completely clear, the gravity is down to 1.005 at 6 months of ~60-65F. The taste is good, slightly tannic/dry. I'd estimate 3.7pH, not palate wrecking, but notably tart. (I had also added dregs from 4 different quality sour and wild ales)

I am hoping now is a reasonable time to bottle, because I want to start a new batch on the culture shortly.
Alternately, I could rack to a 5Gal vessel with oak and a little finished cabernet or some grenache/cabernet juice ... that might be a good option

Yea, that low pH is why I stopped making sours. First few sips were awesome, but a whole glass is too much for me.

First one I bottled at 1.014. OG = 1.068. Looking at it now, that seems high for FG. But that's what my notes say. I had those bottles for at least a year without any problems. I added currrents after 4 months and cherries after 6 months. Can't remember why I waited so long to add them, but maybe they didn't ferment out completely. Anyway, this batch was really good, the best by far. I had a sixer of Consecration to compare to when it was done, and it was similar. Closer to a Maron Acidifie.

I have one that I kegged at 1.012. OG = 1.072. Can't say why I kegged. I doubt I drank all of that - might have dumped, maybe I bottled them.

I also added dregs from various sours (including Consecration) to all the sours I've made.

 

[andrewmaixner]

Yea, that low pH is why I stopped making sours. First few sips were awesome, but a whole glass is too much for me.

First one I bottled at 1.014. OG = 1.068. Looking at it now, that seems high for FG. But that's what my notes say. I had those bottles for at least a year without any problems. I added currrents after 4 months and cherries after 6 months. Can't remember why I waited so long to add them, but maybe they didn't ferment out completely. Anyway, this batch was really good, the best by far. I had a sixer of Consecration to compare to when it was done, and it was similar. Closer to a Maron Acidifie.

I have one that I kegged at 1.012. OG = 1.072. Can't say why I kegged. I doubt I drank all of that - might have dumped, maybe I bottled them.

I also added dregs from various sours (including Consecration) to all the sours I've made.

Thanks for that info.
I just got to the RR section in Tonsmiere's "American Sour Beers", and it states that Consecration never drops below 1.006 for RR.
Pretty sure I'm going to bottle a 6-pack for a control when I rack the remainder to tertiary with a little oak and a tiny bit of high-quality wine kit concentrate for a month, then bottle the rest. I'll try to update in a few months with tasting comparisons.

 

[passedpawn]

BTW, I first brewed this back in 2010. I wrote Vinnie and here's what he told me. Probably has changed since then.

I also confirmed in later correspondence that he does not use black currants, but instead the zante (which are much easier to come by). That's what I used.

Here is a brief run-down of Consecration:

We brew a pretty basic Belgian Style Strong Dark Ale fermenting with White Labs Abbey Ale Yeast. We are using dark candy syrup to gain some of the color and some of the fermentables, we are also adding some dextrose sugar to the kettle at the same time we are adding the dark candy syrup, combined the two represent around 10% of the fermentables. The OG is 1.072 and it finishes at about 1.012-1.016 in the fermenter.

We give it a short period of cold conditioning before we separate the yeast out of the base beer. From there we put the entire batch in a tank and mix the Brett in with the beer. For a single barrel like you are doing you can add the Brett right to the barrel, we add anywhere from .75 gallons to 2 gallons per wine barrel of Brett.

We’ve also added 30 pounds of dried currants to the wine barrel. These are all used Cabernet Sauvignon barrels. The beer will sit initially in the barrels for 8 to 10 weeks at 60F. We will also leave a few gallons of head space as the beer will have a good fermentation going early on as the currants are added sugar plus the residual sugar in the beer.

After 8 to 10 weeks we top the barrels with more Brett and the bacteria. In total the beer will sit in the barrels for 4 to 8 months. After this period we rack it off the fruit through a strainer and bottle or keg it using a wine yeast for bottle conditioning.

The beer will now sit in the bottle or keg for at least 8 weeks before we release it.
​

 

[jrgtr42]

That's really interesting - that correspondence from Vinnie.
I brewed that clone kit a ways back - probably 5 years now. It took a year in secondary to really funk up how I wanted it, and I still have a few bottles left - still drinking great.
I plan to brew it again this summer; or at least use the basic recipe, I'll make some changes, though.
I plan to use sour cherries in place of the currants, and I'll add some rum-soaked staves along with the wine.

 

[505-Brewer]

Yea, that low pH is why I stopped making sours. First few sips were awesome, but a whole glass is too much for me.



First one I bottled at 1.014. OG = 1.068. Looking at it now, that seems high for FG. But that's what my notes say. I had those bottles for at least a year without any problems. I added currrents after 4 months and cherries after 6 months. Can't remember why I waited so long to add them, but maybe they didn't ferment out completely. Anyway, this batch was really good, the best by far. I had a sixer of Consecration to compare to when it was done, and it was similar. Closer to a Maron Acidifie.



I have one that I kegged at 1.012. OG = 1.072. Can't say why I kegged. I doubt I drank all of that - might have dumped, maybe I bottled them.



I also added dregs from various sours (including Consecration) to all the sours I've made.

pH 3.7 is tart at best. Should be drinkable all day. 2.7 on the other hand.......there is a reason the best sour beers are blends