Confused about love2brew instructions

[njohnsoncs]

I really like the selection and service of love2brew but I'm not certain I understand the instructions which come with their kits. For example, in their Saison partial mash kit they have

9. Bring water to a boil.
10. Add 4 lbs. Pilsner Malt Extract. Stir.
11. 60 Minutes: Add 1 oz. UK Kent Goldings for bittering.
12. 10 Minutes: Add 1 oz. UK Kent Goldings for aroma.
13. Boil for the final 10 minutes.

Does this mean I bring the wort to a boil, add the extract and wait until it returns to a boil then add the first hop addition and boil for 50 minutes then add the second hop addition and boil for 10 more minutes then I cool the wort? It seems like you start a timer set for 60 minutes then follow the instructions for the steps according to the time on the timer? This assumes you know that you bring your wort to a boil after the extract is added and at that point you start your timer for 60 minutes.

The following instructions for their Hefeweizen partial mash are even more confusion.

9. Bring water to a boil.
10. Add 3 lbs. Pilsner Malt Extract. Stir.
11. Add 1 lb. Wheat Malt Extract. Stir.
12. 50 Minutes: Add 3/4 oz. German Hallertau for bittering.
13. 15 Minutes: Add 1/4 oz. German Hallertau for aroma.

That seems to imply you bring your wort to a boil, add some extract, then set your timer for 50 minutes, add your first hop addition immediately then boil for 35 minutes then add the final hop addition and boil for 15 minutes. Or does it mean you start the timer at 60 minutes boil your wort for 10 minutes after you add the extract then add the hop additions?

I'm probably over thinking this but it's not that clear. a better way to write it might be something like

- Bring wort to boil
- Add extract and stir until wort returns to boil
- Add first hop addition and boil for X minutes
- Add second hop addition and boil for Y minutes
...
- Add last hop addition and boil for Z minutes
- Cool wort

 

[Draken]

The website says the hefeweizen is a 60 minute boil.

Most recipes are 60 minutes unless otherwise noted.

While I agree their steps lack some key information, your suggested steps are nearly as confusing.

I think better would be:
9) bring water to a boil
10) remove from heat and stir in malt extract
11) bring back to a boil
12) once boiling start the 60 minute timer
13) when timer reads 50 minutes add 3/4 oz of Hallertau
14) when timer reads reads 15 min add 1/4 oz of Hallertau
Etc...

 

[njohnsoncs]

The website says the hefeweizen is a 60 minute boil.

Most recipes are 60 minutes unless otherwise noted.

While I agree their steps lack some key information, your suggested steps are nearly as confusing.

I think better would be:
9) bring water to a boil
10) remove from heat and stir in malt extract
11) bring back to a boil
12) once boiling start the 60 minute timer
13) when timer reads 50 minutes add 3/4 oz of Hallertau
14) when timer reads reads 15 min add 1/4 oz of Hallertau
Etc...

Good suggestion. What is the point of boiling the wort for 10 minutes before adding the hops? All my previous batches I added the hops immediately after it started to boil.

 

[GoeHaarden]

Usually recipes list additions for the time left in the boil as to when to add.

In your case, bring your water to a boil. Turn off flame. Add extract. Stir. Stir. Stir. Turn on flame. bring to boil again. Start timer and continue to boil until this timer ends.

For additions. If it says to add Hallertau at 50 minutes, then you do this when your timer hits 50. Then your next Hallertau addition when you hit 15 minutes left.

Clear as mud? Hope that helps. Cheers.

 

[njohnsoncs]

Usually recipes list additions for the time left in the boil as to when to add.

In your case, bring your water to a boil. Turn off flame. Add extract. Stir. Stir. Stir. Turn on flame. bring to boil again. Start timer and continue to boil until this timer ends.

For additions. If it says to add Hallertau at 50 minutes, then you do this when your timer hits 50. Then your next Hallertau addition when you hit 15 minutes left.

Clear as mud? Hope that helps. Cheers.

This assumes you set your timer for 60 minutes (which I guess is often the case but not a great assumption to have to make).

 

[GoeHaarden]

Good suggestion. What is the point of boiling the wort for 10 minutes before adding the hops? All my previous batches I added the hops immediately after it started to boil.

You get different percentage of hop utilization with different lengths of boil time...

 

[njohnsoncs]

You get different percentage of hop utilization with different lengths of boil time...

Is this true even when the hops haven't been added yet?

 

[GoeHaarden]

This assumes you set your timer for 60 minutes (which I guess is often the case but not a great assumption to have to make).

Not necessarily. You can do a 90 minute boil with the same hop addition schedule. Start adding with 50 minutes left, then 15 min, and so on.

 

[njohnsoncs]

Not necessarily. You can do a 90 minute boil with the same hop addition schedule. Start adding with 50 minutes left, then 15 min, and so on.

That's sort of my point. It is not clear (to someone new to brewing) what to do.
It should, at least, specify a total length of time for the boil and I guess you could then work backwards. Better yet, it would have setting a timer for the total boil time as a step and then the following steps would say "When timer says X time remaining add hops addition".

 

[GoeHaarden]

Is this true even when the hops haven't been added yet?

You will get less hop utilization when you boil the hop for less time...So if you add you hops at 50 minutes as opposed to 60, then (in theory) you utilize the hops less and your IBUs will be lower.

But in all honesty, if I drank your beer I don't think I'd be like "you must have added your first addition at 50 minutes."

 

[GoeHaarden]

That's sort of my point. It is not clear (to someone new to brewing) what to do.
It should, at least, specify a total length of time for the boil and I guess you could then work backwards. Better yet, it would have setting a timer for the total boil time as a step and then the following steps would say "When timer says X time remaining add hops addition".

I'd stick with a 60 minute boil unless it says otherwise.

 

[njohnsoncs]

That's sort of my point. It is not clear (to someone new to brewing) what to do.
It should, at least, specify a total length of time for the boil and I guess you could then work backwards. Better yet, it would have setting a timer for the total boil time as a step and then the following steps would say "When timer says X time remaining add hops addition".

OK, so checking the instructions again it does say a total boil time at the beginning. I overlooked this. It might be good to repeat that in one of the steps right before the boil.

 

[njohnsoncs]

You will get less hop utilization when you boil the hop for less time...So if you add you hops at 50 minutes as opposed to 60, then (in theory) you utilize the hops less and your IBUs will be lower.

But in all honesty, if I drank your beer I don't think I'd be like "you must have added your first addition at 50 minutes."

I understand if you boil that hops for less time it will utilize the hops less. My other question I had was why boil just the wort for 10 minutes before adding the hops? Why not just start a timer for 50 minutes and add the hops immediately once it starts boiling rather than starting a timer at 60 minutes, boiling just the wort for 10 minutes, then adding the hops.

 

[GoeHaarden]

Yup. Not all instructions are created equal, but the process is generally the same.

 

[njohnsoncs]

Btw, thanks for the explanations. I'm still learning the process and conventions so your comments have helped.

 

[GoeHaarden]

I understand if you boil that hops for less time it will utilize the hops less. My other question I had was why boil just the wort for 10 minutes before adding the hops? Why not just start a timer for 50 minutes and add the hops immediately once it starts boiling rather than starting a timer at 60 minutes, boiling just the wort for 10 minutes, then adding the hops.

Ah. I see what your saying now. In extract, I believe this mainly has to do with evaporation/gravity and less concern to boil off DMS. So when you boil, some wort evaporates. This will cause you to lose volume and increase concentration (a.k.a gravity).

 

[Draken]

Never mind missed there was a second page.

 

[applescrap]

I understand if you boil that hops for less time it will utilize the hops less. My other question I had was why boil just the wort for 10 minutes before adding the hops? Why not just start a timer for 50 minutes and add the hops immediately once it starts boiling rather than starting a timer at 60 minutes, boiling just the wort for 10 minutes, then adding the hops.

Although difficult to understand what you are asking at times, I enjoy your enthusiasm, curiosity, and passion for learning and brewing. The reason for the 10 minutes extra on the boil is likely due to the fact that famous brew educators and most common knowledge has dictated that a long vigorous boil creates a better beer and or the recipe calls for it for one reason or another. 60 minutes is seen as a generally accepted number. Sooo with that in mind one recipe asks you to do a "full" boil but add the hops 10 minutes in. This would theoretically give the beer a slightly less bitter quality or if nothing else a different quality than doing 60 minutes. Use an ibu calculator to discover the difference in ibu. To answer your question, yes you could just do a 50 minute boil and start the timer for 50 as the water and extract start boiling. Heres why, to create extract it gets boiled vigorously until it thickens or whatever the process is, thus it only needs boiled to sanatize the wort, evaporate to a certain gravity, create color possibly and to isomerize the alpha acids in the hops. The basic brewing awesome teacher, James spencer, has written and vlogged quite a bit about a 15 minute pale ale with extract. I would personally like to make this beer. I agree, it should say bring water with added extract to a boil. It does assume you know to bring them both back to boil.

 

[RM-MN]

When you boil the wort the color changes due to the Maillard reaction. The longer the boil the darker the wort becomes. With extract, the extract itself will already be darkened some in the process of extraction so your beer will tend to be darker than expected. Boiling the hops causes isomerization of the hop oils which cause them the become bitter and make the beer the correct bitterness. It has been extimated that 90% of the bittering happens within the first 30 minutes of the boil so reducing the length of the boil doesn't affect the bitterness by a great deal. Boiling also concentrates the wort as you boil off water, not the sugars.