concrete fermenters??

[SankePankey]

Cool. That's news to me. Every winemaker I've spoken to (a lot, I'm in the business) uses glass lined concrete. That's the norm. Never heard a yorkshire square used for wine.

I'd be worried about the wine and concrete reacting. Wine is very acidic. Anyone that has concrete countertops knows that it will react to acidic things.

 

[DannyD]

I will be sure to post my results :rockin: (And start a revelution! :cross:??)
just waiting for my malt


(sorry to the vendors, but is it just me or is it a helova lot cheaper to buy bulk? $41 (if converted) for 50 kg malt? and like $10 for 0.5kg hops)

 

[hoppymonkey]

If i converted my septic system to fermenters i could start a micro brewery. Honey pot porter will be our first batch!

I teared up on that laugh.

 

[davefleck]

If you aren't satisfied by the huge variety of additives for the concrete. You can coat with epoxy. I would give it a while for off gasing to minimize. Glass tile can be used with sealed grout as well.

 

[Brew-Happy]

Solution:

http://www.grapeworks.com.au/winery-equipment/winery-equipment-fermentabag.html

http://nthomebrew.com/store/products/20-Gal-Fermenting-Bag%7B47%7D-Liner.html

http://www.beer-wine.com/products/rubbermaid-56-gal-polyliner-polyethylene-bags-56-gallon-rubbermaid-polyliner-bag-each

Just build your concrete tank to size, for thermal properties and line with these food grade plastic bags. Easy cleanup and low risk of infection.

 

[Planeinsane]

The whole idea seems strange to me. using a porous material like concrete or cenemt just screems Bacteria! Then there is the whole leeching of chemicals into the finished product. Ok so you line it with something.... well if you tile it there will be grout lines (see the first 2 issues). So you use an epoxy grout (see the third issue). Hmmmmm
it doesnt sound too appealing to me. By the time you are done, you could have purchased a SS conical that doesnt have as many issues(of course there are a few areas that attention needs to be given) to worry about and yes temp control is a biggie! Even plastic is a better choice. There is a reason metal has been used for centuries.

Well that is only my opion... like i tell my son, opions are like ___ _____ everyone has one and they all stink!

 

[simont]

wow some really hysterical comments on here! in seriousness its pretty interesting to think about the possible positive effects of fermenting in concrete, but I can't think they would ever outweight (sic) the negatives. But I saw an odd thing on pbs last night about how in Jesus' day they used to crush grapes in trenches in the mountainside, and it would run off and ferment in deeper holes in the rock. I guess they were not so pnoid about brett in those days ! and obviously did not have ss, hdpe or the almighty StarSan.

But it got me thinking how interesting to use more modern technology to create cavities in certain types of rock - at certain depths to maintain temp. I don't have any real understanding of engineering or blasting or geology but it would seem pretty doable for some entrepreneuring microbrewery... the type that likes to push boundaries and then market the hell out of that boundary-pushing (DFH? , but with mineral properties and natural interaction with the earth, and even allowing the stone to dictate fermentation temp - it all sounds pretty interesting in a hippy-dippy non-sanitary kind of way.

Anyone live near Heuco Tanks, Texas? Might be a good place for an open-earth ferm experiment.

 

[BryceL]

One good thing I can see is that if your house happens to burn down, your fermenters would be standing strong!

 

[Brew-Happy]

wow some really hysterical comments on here! in seriousness its pretty interesting to think about the possible positive effects of fermenting in concrete, but I can't think they would ever outweight (sic) the negatives. But I saw an odd thing on pbs last night about how in Jesus' day they used to crush grapes in trenches in the mountainside, and it would run off and ferment in deeper holes in the rock. I guess they were not so pnoid about brett in those days ! and obviously did not have ss, hdpe or the almighty StarSan.

But it got me thinking how interesting to use more modern technology to create cavities in certain types of rock - at certain depths to maintain temp. I don't have any real understanding of engineering or blasting or geology but it would seem pretty doable for some entrepreneuring microbrewery... the type that likes to push boundaries and then market the hell out of that boundary-pushing (DFH? , but with mineral properties and natural interaction with the earth, and even allowing the stone to dictate fermentation temp - it all sounds pretty interesting in a hippy-dippy non-sanitary kind of way.

Anyone live near Heuco Tanks, Texas? Might be a good place for an open-earth ferm experiment.

I did the degree thing in geology and your comment sparked my imagination. Ive lived in Texas most of my life and there are hundreds if not thousands of acres of granite domes and outcrops. you could in theory cut out a cylinder in the top of the granite, build a building over it and voila! ground fermenters! granite is not that porous so it could work from that stand point, but the big issue would be leaching.

Volcanic rocks can carry many toxic minerals and granite is know to have radioactive isotopes.

interesting thought tho!

 

[CoopDvr]

I have a possible lining solution for you. There's a 2 part epoxy I use in potable water facilities as a lining, and to repair cracks. I use it in steel and concrete tanks with excelent results. It's called "Aquatapoxy" and the formula you want to buy is "A-6", which is their "Coating" formula. As long as the concrete is clean, it will make a permanent bond. It will harden as hard as a rock and will be as smooth as glass if applied properly. One set (2 gallons) will be more than enough. It's fairly expensive, I pay $146 for a set, but I imagine anyone looking to build a concrete fermentor isn't pinching pennies. I think it can be purchased in pints also, but I'm not sure.

It's certified for use in drinking water, so I imagine it would be fine in a fermentor.

Specific certifications are:
-ANSI/NSF 61, for use in "Drinking Water System Components".
-ANSI/AWWA C 210-03, "Liquid-Epoxy Coating Systems for the Interior and Exterior of Steel Water Pipelines".
-USDA, for application to surfaces where there is a possiblility of incidental food contact


Info Page: AquataPoxy A-6 Liink

Where to buy: http://cohesantmaterials.com/WheretoBuy.aspx

I hope that helps.

 

[pgrebus]

Seems like unlined concrete would be good for sour beers - the concrete would breathe a little like a wooden barrel. I wonder if unlike wood, it won't support bacterial yeast.

Pete

 

[Nightbiker]

Yeah I can just see SWMBO's face if I told her I wanted to build a concrete fermenter. No, I choose the life with far fewer hassles.
Still, if I were going to have one, I like that A-6 epoxy -sounds like it would do just the trick. Take a tractor to move the bloody thing around as needed though. Still, I DO like odd projects.... But UNSEALED and UNLINED? I don't care WHAT the winos say, I'm not wasting my beer ingredients that way.

 

[mattd2]

...I like that A-6 epoxy -sounds like it would do just the trick...

Umm it says:

...and incidental food contact...

Don't know if storing beer on it would be considered incidental :O

 

[Nightbiker]

hmm. maybe not. Perhaps its how you look at it? "Incidentally, I'm storing beer on it until its done fermenting or conditioning. Incidentally, of course".

 

[CoopDvr]

Umm it says:

Don't know if storing beer on it would be considered incidental :O

Very true. Take the info for what it's worth. I wouldn't try it without calling the mfr first. Then again, I'm more than happy with my carboys.

However, FWIW you've probably drank and brewed with water that passed through this lining at some point. I know it's in my municipality's water system. And that's not "incidental" either.

Acquiring certifications can be extremely expensive. The maker of this epoxy markets to drinking water systems, not the food industry. Therefore it wouldn't be logical to invest in testing to achieve higher levels of USDA or FDA certification. Their AWWA certification covers their market. I'm only speculating though.

Prost!

 

[cklages]

Being epoxy, I have to wonder if there are bpa concerns with prolonged contact.

Personally I think that all of the BPA concerns were pretty overblown thanks to the media, but that said I did stop using my old style Nalgene....

 

[madbaldman]

Obviously this is not a solution for homebrewers, but for commercial guys, lined concrete tanks might offer a lower cost alternative to stainless steel.

 

[andysim]

MmIf you build one large enough it could double as a safe room, storm shelter, bomb shelter, or time out room for the kids.

 

[davefleck]

Might be good to design the base with slots for a pallet jack

 

[DannyD]

Brewing is just as difficult as one makes it!!!!!! material is dictating the way YOU brew! Interesting how few people in the world will try new things? mee mee....... we all just a bunch of sheep mee...following the hurd?

 

[bigbeergeek]

Brewing is just as difficult as one makes it!!!!!! material is dictating the way YOU brew! Interesting how few people in the world will try new things? mee mee....... we all just a bunch of sheep mee...following the hurd?

post reads quite drunkardly...

 

[jd3]

post reads quite drunkardly...

Me thinks it more has to do with the lost in translation factor, considering the poster is from South Africa.

 

[bigbeergeek]

But, but, South Africans speak English. Good English, too.

 

[jd3]

But, but, South Africans speak English. Good English, too.

But not "American" english. The post looks much like the way my former roommate from SA spoke when he first arrived in the US. Also, there are a boat load of languages spoke in SA. I think they have more than 10 "official" languages. Assuming the poster is a native english speaker seems silly.

 

[bigbeergeek]

But not "American" english. The post looks much like the way my former roommate from SA spoke when he first arrived in the US. Also, there are a boat load of languages spoke in SA. I think they have more than 10 "official" languages. Assuming the poster is a native english speaker seems silly.

You're right! What a globe trotting multi-lingual bunch we are here on HBT! I've got my translation almanac tableside at all times so I can get through this rot! Tally-ho, you silly ninny.

 

[marcnh]

there is food grade epoxy you can line it with check ebay - "EPOXY RESIN GLUE NONE SAGGING STRUCTURAL GRADE 1-GAL KT"

wow my first post lol

 

[unionrdr]

After watching videos on youtube about old breweries & whatnot,I saw something like this stuff. It looks like they had copper FV's set in bricks covered with concrete. I saw a lot of this in many of the old breweries being filmed. But,on a home scale,I say no,it's impractical.

 

[LuckyPenny]

Why would anyone want to revert back to the stone age? You'd need a crane if you ever wanted to move that thing.

 

[LuckyPenny]

Obviously this is not a solution for homebrewers, but for commercial guys, lined concrete tanks might offer a lower cost alternative to stainless steel.

But, we're on HOMEBREWTALK.com.

 

[unionrdr]

We are?! Dang,I thought I was on drunkenramblingonhomemadehooch.com...That's what I get for drinking the hydro sample from my IPA at 9:25am...