Conan x WLP644 hybrid

[Capt_Yellow]

I did a few step-ups to the starter. The F1-C4 starter had a distinct pineapple smell but I used the F1 for this batch.

1.042 -> 1.012, 4.0% ABV, 4.3pH (final)

1021g (2.25lb) 2-row (43.9%)
1021g (2.25lb) red wheat malt
56.7g (2oz) acidulated malt
56.7g (2oz) flour (2.4%)
170g (6oz) oats (7.3%)

3.8g epsom salts; 6g calcium chloride; .55g baking soda in 3.5 gal. 160F reverse osmosis water => 113 Ca; 25 Mg; 10 Na; 200 Cl; 103 SO4. 153F mash for 90 min. Calc'd pH: 5.48.

Boiled 30 min: 1.038->1.046

Took off 1/2 gal for a starter.

First wort hops: 5g Citra; cube hops: 60g Citra; dry hop on day 2 of ferment: 60g Citra.

Fermentation: from 66F-75F with a 2F bump every 2 days.

Cold crashed.

Bottled with 2oz dextrose for 2.4 volumes, calc'd.

Results: Delicious! One of the best New England Pale Ales I've had. The mouthfeel reminded me of the ones I've had at Hill Farmstead. The nose was huge and wonderful. Carbonation was slight and appropriate with tiny bubbles that kept coming up. Appearance was a pale yellow, turbid. It was brighter yellow at bottling. Comparisons were made to grapefruit juice (by non beer-nerds). I got hints of peach, but I had more from the starters.

Next time: Galaxy and Amarillo are going into the cube hopping as well. I'll start at 68F for fermentation and hold it there to try to get more peach notes, because I love peach drinks.

 

[Mer-man]

I am going to take F1-C4 for a whirl today. I selected out the non-floccing yeast as I propagated up from the microvial, so the yeast I have ready to pitch has left nice clear starter wort over it.

14L batch size
100% Weyermann Pilsner
Bitter with Pacific Gem to 35IBU
2oz Citra and 2oz Galaxy hopstand

Targeting 5.33pH; water is 83 sulfate, 35 chloride

 

[matzou]

Hello there,
Would the blend still be available?
After reading some of the thread I would be pretty happy to try it and spread it in Spain.

 

[Mer-man]

So this beer turned out great. Here it is 2 weeks from grain View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1500883202.296289.jpg

 

[Capt_Yellow]

I did a few step-ups to the starter. The F1-C4 starter had a distinct pineapple smell but I used the F1 for this batch.

1.042 -> 1.012, 4.0% ABV, 4.3pH (final)

1021g (2.25lb) 2-row (43.9%)
1021g (2.25lb) red wheat malt
56.7g (2oz) acidulated malt
56.7g (2oz) flour (2.4%)
170g (6oz) oats (7.3%)

3.8g epsom salts; 6g calcium chloride; .55g baking soda in 3.5 gal. 160F reverse osmosis water => 113 Ca; 25 Mg; 10 Na; 200 Cl; 103 SO4. 153F mash for 90 min. Calc'd pH: 5.48.

Boiled 30 min: 1.038->1.046

Took off 1/2 gal for a starter.

First wort hops: 5g Citra; cube hops: 60g Citra; dry hop on day 2 of ferment: 60g Citra.

Fermentation: from 66F-75F with a 2F bump every 2 days.

Cold crashed.

Bottled with 2oz dextrose for 2.4 volumes, calc'd.

Results: Delicious! One of the best New England Pale Ales I've had. The mouthfeel reminded me of the ones I've had at Hill Farmstead. The nose was huge and wonderful. Carbonation was slight and appropriate with tiny bubbles that kept coming up. Appearance was a pale yellow, turbid. It was brighter yellow at bottling. Comparisons were made to grapefruit juice (by non beer-nerds). I got hints of peach, but I had more from the starters.

Next time: Galaxy and Amarillo are going into the cube hopping as well. I'll start at 68F for fermentation and hold it there to try to get more peach notes, because I love peach drinks.

As an updat, I have one bottle left and this was delicious! A lot of people got peach from it, but it's a note, not overwhelming. I started another NEPA with this yesterday. I'll try fermenting this at 66F.

 

[Mer-man]

So this beer turned out great. Here it is 2 weeks from grain View attachment 408501

A week later, the beer has dropped completely bright. It has a great mouthfeel.

But what I notice is that the malt character is definitely subdued. I also notice overripe mango, so I gotta dial down the Citra!

 

[teamrushpntball]

Anyone have either of the two hybrids available? Please pm me if you do, will gladly pay shipping/vial etc costs.

 

[xico]

I'm interested in trying these out. Could someone with access please PM me?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

But what I notice is that the malt character is definitely subdued. I also notice overripe mango, so I gotta dial down the Citra!

When are you adding the Citra? If after fermentation you might want to bring it forward, give the yeast a chance to turn some of the terpenes into something more citrusy.

 

[Mer-man]

That was a hot hopstand, no dry hop

 

[Mer-man]

I have spun up a big starter for my second round with this yeast. Tons of tropical fruit off the starter flask -- it's great.
I am growing enough to give a friend -- spread the love.

 

[milldoggy]

Just did a blonde ale with F1. Split 5 gallons off and added 5oz coffee beans, 2oz cocoa nibs, 2 vanilla beans and 4oz lactose. 3 days into the dry adjucting and taste amazing

 

[TravelingLight]

Just did a blonde ale with F1. Split 5 gallons off and added 5oz coffee beans, 2oz cocoa nibs, 2 vanilla beans and 4oz lactose. 3 days into the dry adjucting and taste amazing

When you added those to the split batch, how did you add the lactose? I assume you boil it in water first? Or did you just dump lactose in straight up?

 

[milldoggy]

When you added those to the split batch, how did you add the lactose? I assume you boil it in water first? Or did you just dump lactose in straight up?

At kegging, so fermentation complete. Boiled the lactose in water for a few minutes, cooled and scrapped it in. Let it cool to much, had to heat up some to get semi.liquid

 

[Mer-man]

My update is that I am going to stop using F1-C4 for now. I have a sample in deep freeze if I decide to revisit it. Big props to Kristoffer for sharing his work, but I do not really like the flavours in a normal West Coast style IPA.

I tried oxygenating to about 10ppm and it did not seem to make any difference to the nature of the fermentation; previously I had aerated to maybe 4-5ppm.

I am getting too pronounced alcohol and some weird esters despite using my Ale profile of ramping from 17C to 21C over several days. Maybe that's too cold for ideal use. Or maybe what I don't like is obscured by the normal use of this yeast (i.e. NEIPA).

 

[jakturner]

Has anyone fermented either one these yeast under pressure? I got an IPA riding at ~7 psi right now. Also when stepping these yeast up I accidentally mixed them together so it's a blend of both.

 

[TheHairyHop]

yea, I always ferment under pressure. I didn't notice anything of significance. I will say that others seem to have gotten more flavor from F1 than I did.

 

[makubex]

Both times that I used the strains, I did not ferment under pressure.

My previous experiences with WLP644 make me think that a pressurized fermentation has tendency to stress that yeast strain, and I've managed to get fusels from sacch trois in a couple batches. My evidence is only anecdotal, but the same recipe when fermented with 644 at the same temperature range, with the same pitching rate and same oxygenation, but with a blow-off-tube instead of a spinding valve did not have fusels.

 

[jakturner]

yea, I always ferment under pressure. I didn't notice anything of significance. I will say that others seem to have gotten more flavor from F1 than I did.

I'm new to using a spunding valve, what's psi do you usually use during fermentation? Do you have it under pressure the whole time or just towards the end?

 

[TheHairyHop]

I keep it anywhere between 8 and 15 psi while fermenting so that I maintain an oxygen free environment. I do it until I see it start dropping a bit, which would mean fermentation has stopped and whatever microleak that I have is winning out

 

[Mer-man]

I just propp'd up my second vial from last year. Last step was 1.04 starter wort, non-agitated at about 22C. It fermented to 1.006 and dropped pretty nicely.

 

[Mer-man]

Batch underway. I probably pitched around 1m/ml/P, so a bit high. The FFT I pulled after 24H has a wicked creamy krausen and smells of pineapple, citrus, and some stone fruit. We'll see how this stuff does with real wort.

 

[srqbrew]

Anyone able to share a bit of these? Happy to pay shipping to Seattle.

 

[suregork]

I have the hybrids safely stored in our -80 freezer, so anyone interested in trying these can send me an email (my username here at HBT at gmail.com).

 

[Clyde McCoy]

I have the hybrids safely stored in our -80 freezer, so anyone interested in trying these can send me an email (my username here at HBT at gmail.com).

Do you have any sense of the stability of your hybrid WLP644 x Conan strain? I see you sporulated the hybrid, but do you notice any change over successive generations? I.e. have you noticed any reduction of either moiety? I'm thinking about the section here, "Hybrid genome function and stability" - Novel brewing yeast hybrids: creation and application

 

[suregork]

Do you have any sense of the stability of your hybrid WLP644 x Conan strain? I see you sporulated the hybrid, but do you notice any change over successive generations? I.e. have you noticed any reduction of either moiety? I'm thinking about the section here, "Hybrid genome function and stability" - Novel brewing yeast hybrids: creation and application

I haven't tested long term stability, but the hybrid is likely to be less stable than the parent strains. Hybrids within a species (e.g. here between two S. cerevisiae strains) are often more stable than hybrids between species). However, as the hybrid is probably hexaploid (from the tetraploid Conan and diploid WLP644), there will certainly be some genome reduction in the long run. We did follow the genomic changes in some of our lager hybrids after 30 consecutive batch fermentations in high ethanol media, and typically saw some loss of the S. eubayanus genome. Enhanced Wort Fermentation with De Novo Lager Hybrids Adapted to High-Ethanol Environments