Complete noob questions

[BigRedHope]

Sorry for some of the noob questions, but I am completely new to home brewing anything and I'm a bit overwhelmed at the moment, but am looking to make this a new hobby. (haven't stopped thinking about it since I decided to try it)

I just started my first two 1 gallon batches yesterday in 2 gallon buckets to start experimenting.
Container 1
1 gallon Whole Foods apple juice
1 tsp enzyme
1/4 cup brown sugar
1.057 before sugar
1.060 after sugar
1 pack Craft Series MO2 yeast

Container 2
1 gallon Whole Foods apple juice
1 tsp enzyme
1.057
1 pack Nottingham yeast

Hopefully I haven't screwed these up, but this is what I put together. My questions are:
When it comes time to bottle will it work if I just use 2 liter plastic soda bottles and/or regular mt dew plastic bottles? Cleaned of course.
I'm trying to keep this on the cheap while I'm still in the experiment phase.
Also if I move the cider back to the original glass container it came in how long generally before I need to do that, and how long in the 2nd container before I should put in the bottles?
I also want to sweeten it up a bit, would I just do this right before putting it in the bottles?

I probably should have done more research before I started but I couldn't wait. I have visions of doing this all the time.

Also any good book suggestions for a new brewer? I haven't developed a taste for beer yet but I love cider (adult who got a late start in life with alcohol), so for now I'm sticking to that.

Thanks.

 

[phug]

bottling in coke/mountaindew bottles should be fine, and is safer for you if you haven't let the yeast finish out completely before bottling

I'm making cider on the same scale as you and I haven't used secondary for anything other than a Graff that I've made. Give your yeast plenty of time to work and you can get away with no secondary.

If you're sweetening it up, you would probably want to do that right before bottling, and you'll want to look at pappt's stovetop pasteurizing thread and use that to help you decide if you want to use fermentable or non fermentable sugars (I'm assuming you want a carbonated product)

 

[BigRedHope]

Thank you for the response. If I don't do a secondary what kind of time frame would I be looking at? I just don't want to stop too soon.

 

[phug]

Most of my ciders take about a month at about 60f before they're done. My pear/ apple ciders are quicker




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[bernardsmith]

I am not sure I totally agree that you should want to allow the cider to age in the primary container. One danger is that some yeasts are prone to autolysis and when they break down they produce off flavors and aromas. Another negative is that when you bottle from the primary you are going to have about an inch of dead yeast and particles of all kinds that have settled at the bottom. Racking off the lees (those particles) into a second sanitized carboy means that when you are ready to bottle you won't agitate the lees and the lees won't make it into your bottles so your cider will be clearer. In addition, racking your cider helps force out the suspended CO2 and that helps to allow the particles and yeast to flocculate and drop out of suspension - again aiding the clarity of your cider.

 

[BigRedHope]

Thank you. Where I'm just learning /experimenting I may as well do the secondary then. I have the glass jars so I may as well use them.
I'll read up on stove top pasteurization thread for when the bottling time comes. I'll probably stick with the plastic for now too on the bottles until I get a bit more seasoned

 

[Pataka]

One observation I made is that you've put everything in at once. I always add my pectic enzyme about 24 hours before pitching the yeast. Not sure if that's actually important, or only when you're brewing from actual fruit.

 

[phug]

Thank you. Where I'm just learning /experimenting I may as well do the secondary then. I have the glass jars so I may as well use them.
I'll read up on stove top pasteurization thread for when the bottling time comes. I'll probably stick with the plastic for now too on the bottles until I get a bit more seasoned

I recommend against pasteurizing in plastic bottles. The bottles may distort and my experience the test ones I did pasteurize is plastic got a plasticky flavour. Fortunately I only did 2. If you stick with plastic bottles, toss them in the fridge when you hit the right carbonation and keep them cold. If you've got them sweetened with ferment able sugar and they're carbing up you will be left with something else. Plastic bottles won't send shrapnel out like glass but they can fail and leave a sticky mess somewhere around 7-10 volumes from what I've read. You'll have gushers long before plastic bombs



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[BigRedHope]

Ok thanks. Sounds like I should rethink some things

 

[phug]

You can do plastic bottles so long as you have enough fridge space and you skip pasteurizing. Also try not to use a lager yeast or ec1118. Those ones may still keep fermenting in your fridge instead of going dormant



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[Pataka]

One observation I made is that you've put everything in at once. I always add my pectic enzyme about 24 hours before pitching the yeast. Not sure if that's actually important, or only when you're brewing from actual fruit.

I wrote that quote in a rush so should probably elaborate. Recipes I've seen for making wine or cider from pulp always call for adding pectic enzyme and K meta roughly 24 hours before pitching yeast. This allows sufficient time for a) the pectins to break down and b) the K meta to take effect and to reduce the chances that it will affect the yeast when it's added.

I'm not sure whether the inclusion of pectic enzyme in this stage is because it's beneficial to the sulphites to do so, or whether it's detrimental to the fermentation to add it when you pitch the yeast. If it's the former, then there's nothing wrong with what you're doing. If it's the latter, then you'd probably be best adding pectic enzyme to the juice and letting it stand for 24 hours before pitching yeast.

If it was me and I didn't know the answer to the above (which I don't) I'd still add the enzyme 24 hours before doing anything else. If you're adding sugar to boost the gravity, I'd do that just before pitching yeast, after the enzyme has had a chance to break down the pectins.

 

[BigRedHope]

That makes sense. I was following a website when I put this together and the enzyme was to clear up the cider. I bought the whole foods juice and it was really cloudy. Going forward I'll take your advice and add the enzyme 24 hours before the rest.

 

[bernardsmith]

I wrote that quote in a rush so should probably elaborate. Recipes I've seen for making wine or cider from pulp always call for adding pectic enzyme and K meta roughly 24 hours before pitching yeast. This allows sufficient time for a) the pectins to break down and b) the K meta to take effect and to reduce the chances that it will affect the yeast when it's added.

I'm not sure whether the inclusion of pectic enzyme in this stage is because it's beneficial to the sulphites to do so, or whether it's detrimental to the fermentation to add it when you pitch the yeast. If it's the former, then there's nothing wrong with what you're doing. If it's the latter, then you'd probably be best adding pectic enzyme to the juice and letting it stand for 24 hours before pitching yeast.

If it was me and I didn't know the answer to the above (which I don't) I'd still add the enzyme 24 hours before doing anything else. If you're adding sugar to boost the gravity, I'd do that just before pitching yeast, after the enzyme has had a chance to break down the pectins.

I believe that fermentation inhibits the activity of the pectic enzyme rather than the enzyme inhibits the fermentation. With K-meta the sulphates inhibit the yeast... so the reasons for pitching the yeast 24 hours after adding enzymes and /or K-meta are quite different...

 

[BigRedHope]

I've reread some of this and I think I understand Phug a little better than I did before. I've had my cider going for a week now and there is no bubbling going on. I'm thinking of letting it sit a few more days and then moving to a secondary on both and letting it sit a while longer. Maybe a week or two? Then adding some apple concentrate, cinnamon and whatever else for flavor. Then because I only have 2 gallons going I'm thinking of moving them all to plastic bottles and leaving out for a week or so until it feels like they are carbed up good. Then moving to a fridge to stop it.
Does that sound like correct?

I've read through the pasteurization thread and because I still haven't collected enough glass bottles that is why I'm thinking of just putting it in plastic and then to fridge.

Also has anyone tried mixing with fireball whiskey for the cinnamon flavor?

 

[phug]

Sounds like a good plan. The Notty you used should go dormant in the fridge.



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[BigRedHope]

Thanks man. Can't wait