Comments/suggestions help w/ my first tweaked recipe

[pompeiisneaks]

hey all,

this is my first time really messing w/ the ingredients. I was going to just copy a recipe from the recipe area, and found that it didn't seem to be matching the BJCP guidelines. I wanted to play around a bit this time and kinda make my own recipe. I replaced things here and there and got it all within guides, but I've got two questions now. 1. is Belgian Pilsner Malt grain an okay grain for a wit? I think the original was asking for a Belgian Pale Malt, but that was getting too dark, does that work as a suitable replacement? 2. It asked for flaked wheat, but my BeerAlchemy didn't have that, so I chose the "US Flaked Soft Red Wheat" in the list. I don't know if this would be one and the same or not, also would this work fine? Below is the recipe, comments and/or suggestions would be appreciated.

Phil's Own Belgian Wit

Selected Style and BJCP Guidelines
16A-Belgian And French Ale-Witbier

Minimum OG: 1.044 SG Maximum OG: 1.052 SG
Minimum FG: 1.008 SG Maximum FG: 1.012 SG
Minimum IBU: 10 IBU Maximum IBU: 20 IBU
Minimum Color: 2.0 SRM Maximum Color: 4.0 SRM

Recipe Overview
Wort Volume Before Boil: 6.34 US gals Wort Volume After Boil: 5.81 US gals
Volume Transferred: 5.28 US gals Water Added To Fermenter: 0.00 US gals
Volume At Pitching: 5.28 US gals Volume Of Finished Beer: 5.02 US gals
Expected Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.046 SG Expected OG: 1.050 SG
Expected FG: 1.012 SG Apparent Attenuation: 75.9 %
Expected ABV: 5.1 % Expected ABW: 4.0 %
Expected IBU (using Tinseth): 16.2 IBU Expected Color (using Morey): 3.4 SRM
BU:GU ratio: 0.33
Mash Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Duration: 60.0 mins
Fermentation Temperature: 70 degF

Fermentables
Ingredient Amount % MCU When
Belgian Pilsen Malt 6lb 0oz 54.5 % 1.7 In Mash/Steeped
US Flaked Soft Red Wheat 5lb 0oz 45.5 % 1.7 In Mash/Steeped

Hops
Variety Alpha Amount IBU Form When
UK Golding 5.0 % 1.00 oz 16.2 Loose Whole Hops First Wort Hopped

Other Ingredients
Ingredient Amount When
Coriander Seed 0.75 oz In Mash
Orange Peel, Bitter 0.75 oz In Mash

Yeast
White Labs WLP400-Belgian Wit Ale

 

[mmb]

You'll want the coriander and the orange peel towards the end of the boil so that you don't loose the aromatics and boil off the flavor they provide.

Otherwise, looks good.

 

[pompeiisneaks]

Yeah thanks, I knew that, but I think when I added them I forgot to tweak that, I'll do that now so I don't forget

 

[desertbronze]

1. is Belgian Pilsner Malt grain an okay grain for a wit? I think the original was asking for a Belgian Pale Malt, but that was getting too dark, does that work as a suitable replacement?

Pilnser malt will be fine - pilsner is usually just a little lighter.

2. It asked for flaked wheat, but my BeerAlchemy didn't have that, so I chose the "US Flaked Soft Red Wheat" in the list.

They are the same thing - you're good.

Selected Style and BJCP Guidelines
16A-Belgian And French Ale-Witbier

Minimum OG: 1.044 SG Maximum OG: 1.052 SG
Minimum FG: 1.008 SG Maximum FG: 1.012 SG
Minimum IBU: 10 IBU Maximum IBU: 20 IBU
Minimum Color: 2.0 SRM Maximum Color: 4.0 SRM

Recipe Overview
Wort Volume Before Boil: 6.34 US gals Wort Volume After Boil: 5.81 US gals
Volume Transferred: 5.28 US gals Water Added To Fermenter: 0.00 US gals
Volume At Pitching: 5.28 US gals Volume Of Finished Beer: 5.02 US gals
Expected Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.046 SG Expected OG: 1.050 SG
Expected FG: 1.012 SG Apparent Attenuation: 75.9 %
Expected ABV: 5.1 % Expected ABW: 4.0 %
Expected IBU (using Tinseth): 16.2 IBU Expected Color (using Morey): 3.4 SRM
BU:GU ratio: 0.33
Mash Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Duration: 60.0 mins
Fermentation Temperature: 70 degF

Fermentables
Ingredient Amount % MCU When
Belgian Pilsen Malt 6lb 0oz 54.5 % 1.7 In Mash/Steeped
US Flaked Soft Red Wheat 5lb 0oz 45.5 % 1.7 In Mash/Steeped

Hops
Variety Alpha Amount IBU Form When
UK Golding 5.0 % 1.00 oz 16.2 Loose Whole Hops First Wort Hopped

Other Ingredients
Ingredient Amount When
Coriander Seed 0.75 oz In Mash
Orange Peel, Bitter 0.75 oz In Mash
Yeast
White Labs WLP400-Belgian Wit Ale

Coriander and orange peel are usually added to the boil - last 15 minutes or so.

 

[pompeiisneaks]

Awesome, thanks! I just thought of something else, do I need some kind of protein rest at 120ish w/ all that flaked wheat, or is mashing at 154ish for 60 mins going to be fine? I'm not sure how the flaked wheat behaves in a mash? Same as malted grains?

Thanks!

 

[brewmasterpa]

some people will tell you to forego a protein rest on flaked adjuncts, but when they exceed 30% of your grain bill, i prefer to do a 30 min rest at 122f just to be safe. youre at around 40% so i would do the rest just to make certain youre converting.

 

[mmb]

You really don't need to do a protein rest for this beer because a Wit is going to be hazy anyway.

The rest isn't really going to effect how much you convert for flaked because it's already been cereal mashed /gelatinized during the flaking process.

 

[pompeiisneaks]

I'm reading palmer on this too, just for general need for a protein rest and he says:

Modification is the term that describes the degree of breakdown during malting of the protein-starch matrix (endosperm) that comprises the bulk of the seed. Moderately-modified malts benefit from a protein rest to break down any remnant large proteins into smaller proteins and amino acids as well as to further release the starches from the endosperm. Fully-modified malts have already made use of these enzymes and do not benefit from more time spent in the protein rest regime. In fact, using a protein rest on fully modified malts tends to remove most of the body of a beer, leaving it thin and watery. Most base malt in use in the world today is fully modified. Less modified malts are often available from German maltsters. Brewers have reported fuller, maltier flavors from malts that are less modified and make use of this rest.

So it seems in general a protein rest isn't needed anymore due to most malted grains being already set to do this w/o a need for this rest... good to know for me anyway

 

[brewmasterpa]

as i said, most people will tell you to forego the rest, but i know that ive lost 5-8 percent of efficiency off my mash without it when ive done high adjunct brews. if youre ok with that, and can pick it up elsewhere, do what feels right to you. it'll still be beer, and it'll still be good. happy brewing, cheers!! come to think of it, i have a similar recipe up for brew this weekend, i have the recipe on my list if you want to read it. im going to do a rest. ill let you know what my efficiency ended up being.

 

[pompeiisneaks]

Lets trade eff stats I can't easily do a rest due to using a coleman cooler, unless I decoct it... I'd rather not. I'm building my herms setup as we speak and then I'll be able to do a protein rest, which I may try some other time

 

[brewmasterpa]

i will post my stats after brew. oh, and i changed the recipe just a little bit due to conflict of style, so if youve checked the recipe, you might just peek again. anytime i do a protein rest, i always decoct and heat for the mash. i use a 10 gallon rubbermaid lauter/mash tun, so i have a similar setup. its not too bad, just takes a little more time to deal with. happy brewing, cheers!!!

 

[pompeiisneaks]

Well the mash went well, I had 1.042 pre boil gravity and the recipe said it should be 1.041. I'm slightly higher than expected at 75% eff. Lookin good! It seems to be doing great. I'll let you know how the final comes out

 

[pompeiisneaks]

Wow this sucks hard... I got 1.038 OG, after having 1.042 pre boil... ? I guess, even though I stirred the wort well prior to taking my pre boil gravity, it must have not been well mixed, and I got a concentrated wort area. Only way I can account for LOSING gravity after boil. I can't wait til I get my HERMS built so I can actually consistently keep my mash right. I hit 148 or 149 for my initial mash temps which was a few degrees low, I wanted 152, but I am pretty sure from what I've read that's still in the temp range for enzyme action to happen, is it just slower there? My sparge water was perfect, about 169. (batch sparge) I'm not sure how I have only once out of 4 AG batches, hit my water temps just right... I guess its the cold temps here in Utah that make me lose too much heat when I go from boil pot to MLT. I was about 174ish I think when I poured in the strike water, and as I added my mash, I lost down to 149ish... that seems pretty extreme to me, but oh well...

I'm sure it will still taste like beer, though, as it still smelled yummy. I just know that my previous batches that were short on OG were softer or weaker flavored...

damn.

~Phil

 

[brewmasterpa]

well mine was slightly disastrous in my opinion. i couldnt get my temps right if my life depended on it. for whatever reason, my rest temp was too high initially, so i cooled it to where i wanted it (122), then when i went to mash, i was too low on temp and had to add 2 additions of boiling water to get it up to almost where i wanted it. i held it at 148 for about 45 minutes because i had it at 142-148 for about 20-30 minutes so my total mash time was about 70 minutes or so. i figured that would be sufficient. nope. when it was all said and done, my og was 1.043, achieving only about a 73-74% eff. i think i could have gotten it up into the 80% range if my brew had gone well.

 

[mmb]

Try bumping your batch sparge water up to 180. It's not going to sit long enough to raise the mash temperature too high for tannin extraction and you'll get a better solubility of the mash sugars.

Here's a good AG primer that talks about the benefits of higher sparge temps.
All Grain

 

[brewmasterpa]

well i was shooting for a 150 mash temp, and a 175 sparge temp. i know i got the sparge temp right, but my mash temp went awry. i used a different mash temp calculator than i normally do, i know now not to use that calculator again.

 

[pompeiisneaks]

okay so an update on this, the wit came out w/ a horrible yeasty off flavor, its mellowed after a few more weeks in keg, to where its drinkable, but not wonderful. This is one of my first really bad batches so far. Its okay though, I've got an ESB due by next weekend that I tasted when I checked FG, and its so yummy! I have a pale ale still fermenting (double batch) and a belgian dubbel in primary now as well.