color change after bottling
- Thread starter tomj
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk:
andrewcoopergt
Well-Known Member
I added the dregs from a fresh bottle of Orval and a fresh bottle of GI Sofie.
Reviving this a bit, as it has happened to me, too.
Brewed a lambic in March. I had a half gallon of wort left over, so I put it in a 1 gallon jug, added T-58 and some random dregs (Petrus aged pale, JP dregs), and it was happily fermenting away until recently.
It had a nice, thick pellicle until a week ago. I noticed it fell, and was replaced a couple days later by a very thin one, which looked different. Then over the course of 2-3 days (between when I looked at it), it changed from a light 2-3 SRM color to a dark purple. Very weird. I'll get pics, but yeah...I'm stumped.
Brewed a lambic in March. I had a half gallon of wort left over, so I put it in a 1 gallon jug, added T-58 and some random dregs (Petrus aged pale, JP dregs), and it was happily fermenting away until recently.
It had a nice, thick pellicle until a week ago. I noticed it fell, and was replaced a couple days later by a very thin one, which looked different. Then over the course of 2-3 days (between when I looked at it), it changed from a light 2-3 SRM color to a dark purple. Very weird. I'll get pics, but yeah...I'm stumped.
corwin3083
Well-Known Member
If it's something in suspension, do finings eliminate it?
![Craft A Brew - Safale S-04 Dry Yeast - Fermentis - English Ale Dry Yeast - For English and American Ales and Hard Apple Ciders - Ingredients for Home Brewing - Beer Making Supplies - [1 Pack]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41fVGNh6JfL._SL500_.jpg)
I've had some similar experiences to what folks are describing here so I'm gonna revive this...
Actually, I've had two different problems which I suspect are different levels of intensity of the same problem, but could in fact be two totally different problems. I started a separate thread too which is here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/off-flavor-ipas-438725/
First, for a while I was brewing a lot of 1 gallon batches just to test recipes and hop flavors and so on, and after a point I started having a problem that is basically identical to what people have described in this thread. These batches would turn out with a murky brownish/purplish haze (and very purplish slurry) and a disgusting metallic/rusty/burned/chemical flavor. Totally undrinkable. It happened with every batch for a while so eventually I quit brewing 1 gal batches. I assumed there was some kind of infection in my equipment for those batches (which is different from equipment for full size batches).
But more recently, I've bottled the remaining batches I had in 1 gal fermenters and found that some of them are totally fine. And I realized that all the screwed up batches were IPAs or other kinds of hoppy/dry-hopped beers--a wit and a couple of 100% brett beers that I had in 1 gal fermenters turned out totally normal. Which is what leads me to think this is the same problem in more extreme form as my other problem.
That other problem has been with all of my 5 gal IPA/Pale Ale batches for a while now, and actually with every dry-hopped beer except for one (which was a really hoppy saison, almost a farmhouse IPA really). These beers aren't nearly as disgusting as the purple 1 gal batches, but all of them have had the same weird off flavor. It's hard to describe--chemical, metallic, maybe soapy or grassy...it could be a much lighter version of the same gross stuff in the small batches but I'm not fully convinced.
But this has happened to EVERY ONE of the IPAs I've brewed for several months--and I'm talking like 10+ batches of IPAs. During that time I've brewed dozens of batches of other styles of beer, and not had any trace of this problem in a single one of them. And there are no differences in my process or water treatment or equipment or anything between the hoppy stuff and non-hoppy stuff except for dry-hopping, and occasionally (but not always) adding gypsum to the hoppy beers since my water here is a little soft.
The 5 gal IPA batches do seem to be a bit darker than they should be. Sometimes this is more obvious than other times, with a brownish tint. I don't think I've noticed the purple color in any of the large batches.
So, uh, what?
Actually, I've had two different problems which I suspect are different levels of intensity of the same problem, but could in fact be two totally different problems. I started a separate thread too which is here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/off-flavor-ipas-438725/
First, for a while I was brewing a lot of 1 gallon batches just to test recipes and hop flavors and so on, and after a point I started having a problem that is basically identical to what people have described in this thread. These batches would turn out with a murky brownish/purplish haze (and very purplish slurry) and a disgusting metallic/rusty/burned/chemical flavor. Totally undrinkable. It happened with every batch for a while so eventually I quit brewing 1 gal batches. I assumed there was some kind of infection in my equipment for those batches (which is different from equipment for full size batches).
But more recently, I've bottled the remaining batches I had in 1 gal fermenters and found that some of them are totally fine. And I realized that all the screwed up batches were IPAs or other kinds of hoppy/dry-hopped beers--a wit and a couple of 100% brett beers that I had in 1 gal fermenters turned out totally normal. Which is what leads me to think this is the same problem in more extreme form as my other problem.
That other problem has been with all of my 5 gal IPA/Pale Ale batches for a while now, and actually with every dry-hopped beer except for one (which was a really hoppy saison, almost a farmhouse IPA really). These beers aren't nearly as disgusting as the purple 1 gal batches, but all of them have had the same weird off flavor. It's hard to describe--chemical, metallic, maybe soapy or grassy...it could be a much lighter version of the same gross stuff in the small batches but I'm not fully convinced.
But this has happened to EVERY ONE of the IPAs I've brewed for several months--and I'm talking like 10+ batches of IPAs. During that time I've brewed dozens of batches of other styles of beer, and not had any trace of this problem in a single one of them. And there are no differences in my process or water treatment or equipment or anything between the hoppy stuff and non-hoppy stuff except for dry-hopping, and occasionally (but not always) adding gypsum to the hoppy beers since my water here is a little soft.
The 5 gal IPA batches do seem to be a bit darker than they should be. Sometimes this is more obvious than other times, with a brownish tint. I don't think I've noticed the purple color in any of the large batches.
So, uh, what?
I am going to add my case here too.
I usually keg, the kegged beer stays bright keeps the color.
When I bottle the color goes 3-4 SRM darker and the aroma subsides a bit. The part with aroma I get, in time aging beer dulls the aroma.
I will give you the example of my last batch, when I'd have pics I'd post them.
I brew a 10 galon batch of Saison. Half with WY 3711 and half with WL 550 just to compare the strains.
After the secondary before racking them out i tasted them plain, and both tasted good, some difference but good saisons.
the 3711 went to keg and is haze golden(imagine a golden haze pilsner) great saison color.
the 550 I bottled with *table sugar* and kept it in my brewpi driven fermentation chamber at 75 for 2 weeks but when I tasted the 12oz bottle the color was golden brown no longer yellow gold.
No off flavor which is good but what in the world is going on on the color.
the only common thing in all my bottle beer is table sugar, can that be the culprit ?
the sanitation is standards, clean the bottles with oxy clean, then rinse them with water then do the starsan. I use a bottle cleaner (the italian red thing that shoots liquid upwards) then I drain the excess of starsan.
I usually keg, the kegged beer stays bright keeps the color.
When I bottle the color goes 3-4 SRM darker and the aroma subsides a bit. The part with aroma I get, in time aging beer dulls the aroma.
I will give you the example of my last batch, when I'd have pics I'd post them.
I brew a 10 galon batch of Saison. Half with WY 3711 and half with WL 550 just to compare the strains.
After the secondary before racking them out i tasted them plain, and both tasted good, some difference but good saisons.
the 3711 went to keg and is haze golden(imagine a golden haze pilsner) great saison color.
the 550 I bottled with *table sugar* and kept it in my brewpi driven fermentation chamber at 75 for 2 weeks but when I tasted the 12oz bottle the color was golden brown no longer yellow gold.
No off flavor which is good but what in the world is going on on the color.
the only common thing in all my bottle beer is table sugar, can that be the culprit ?
the sanitation is standards, clean the bottles with oxy clean, then rinse them with water then do the starsan. I use a bottle cleaner (the italian red thing that shoots liquid upwards) then I drain the excess of starsan.
Whether oxygen is directly or indirectly the cause, it certainly plays a role. Here is a picture of the same beer (a pale sour beer aged in a wine barrel). The only difference is that the one on the right was poured 10 days ago and left in my cool/dark basement until tonight. The one on the left is freshly poured.
Oxygen certainly plays a role. When you look at the long aged oxidized wines they all change color. Whites turn more brown/amber and reds get lighter I think. I have a bottle of a fondillion wine that I have yet to drink but I understand the wine has a more red/amber color compared to fresh reds.
I can't agree more. Brew a saison, golden bright yellow color, ended up with brandy like color. No off flavors... I can't agree this is oxidation either!
The open glass was left at room temp uncovered but in the bottled beer is insulated from oxygen. There is little oxygen left in, at the top of the bottle.
More oxygen would mean more darkening. The tiny amount of air trapped in a bottle might be enough to cause a faint color shift (although I use oxygen-absorbing caps), minimal compared to the free-flow of air for an extended period of time.
I also tried dusting a bit of Oxyclean into a glass of beer, but didn't see a dramatic color change over a few hours.
orangehero
Well-Known Member
Oxidation doesn't necessarily happen from the air in the bottle. For as long as the beer is exposed to the air (in the bottling bucket or whatever) it is absorbing oxygen, especially if there's any movement and splashing. The oxidation reaction is also not instantaneous, that's why you see it continue over time.
Bennywisest
Well-Known Member
This was a very interesting read, and may have brought to light an issue I had previously with an an IPA I brewed. The IPA was only fermented with Cal V I believe and no Brett or Bugs were intentionally added. The beer had Nice golden color at bottling and a wonderful tropical pine forest flavor / aroma. After conditioning, quite a few bottles were gushers, those that weren't all were a reddish color (similar to the color of Nugget Nectar). A few I drank tasted horrible, very solventy (nail polish like). Others taste fine though and are still this reddish color.
Recalling my process I believe I had an infection in some of the bottles. All of my bottles were previously used for both homebrew and commercial beer, at various stages of cleanliness. I usually soak in Oxyclean, then bottle brush, and rinse with a bottle sprayer. I then sanitize the bottles with Star San, but holding them in a bucket until they fill and pour it out. I believe that day I didn't use the bottle brush on most of the bottles that "appeared" to not have any residue in them. I don't remember why I didn't brush each out (probably just being lazy).
So I think I had a wild yeast infect most (or maybe all of the bottles). Which might bring my experience in line with a lot of the results from Brett users. I'm not sure what condition is the cause is but it seems that wild yeast (brett) is reacting with something to make the color change.
I have not had this problem since this one time ( about 4 batches ago). /knockonwood
For reference my IPA looked almost exactly like ShawDeuce22's experience. Some of the bottles were a bit darker red, but very close.
Recalling my process I believe I had an infection in some of the bottles. All of my bottles were previously used for both homebrew and commercial beer, at various stages of cleanliness. I usually soak in Oxyclean, then bottle brush, and rinse with a bottle sprayer. I then sanitize the bottles with Star San, but holding them in a bucket until they fill and pour it out. I believe that day I didn't use the bottle brush on most of the bottles that "appeared" to not have any residue in them. I don't remember why I didn't brush each out (probably just being lazy).
So I think I had a wild yeast infect most (or maybe all of the bottles). Which might bring my experience in line with a lot of the results from Brett users. I'm not sure what condition is the cause is but it seems that wild yeast (brett) is reacting with something to make the color change.
I have not had this problem since this one time ( about 4 batches ago). /knockonwood
For reference my IPA looked almost exactly like ShawDeuce22's experience. Some of the bottles were a bit darker red, but very close.
I had the exact same thing happen to me. All brett brux trois primary, pale meets IPA, warrior bitter, nelson sauvin and motueka late hops, nelson sauvin motueka and citra dry hop.
This is a sample poured after I took the FG reading:
...and this is from after I opened a bottle 6 days later (fully carb'd BTW):
I'm going to let it sit in bottles for a few more weeks
aaronthechamp
New Member
The last two batches I have brewed have had this problem!
Batch 1 - Pale Ale - mostly pale malt with a bit of carafoam and victory. Had a few problems during brewing so when bottle conditioning was done and I found out I had reddish-purple beer, I figured it was those original problems and dumped the batch. Some bottles seemed worse than others, with definite off flavors there.
Batch 2 - Rye IPA - I took an Alpine Nelson IPA clone and changed it into my own thing, but the color should have been similar - less than 6 SRM.
Malt Bill - 8.5 lbs Pale, 2.25 lbs Rye, .75 lbs Crystal 20, Some corn sugar.
Bottle conditioned and color came out the same as batch one. reddish brown. See picture below.
The batch I made before these two batches was a saison that I bottled with brett (it came out great). I thought I cleaned my bottling bucket sufficiently, but now that I think about it - I may not have taken out the spigot and cleaned until after batch 1. But now that I read this thread and have had two batches come out with this color (and flavor) problem, I figure it must have something to do with the brett leftover in the bottling bucket. Of course it could also be something in the bottles.
So I'm going to thoroughly clean everything before my next batch, but wanted to fill everyone in on my story to see if it helps get to the bottom of anything.
Batch 1 - Pale Ale - mostly pale malt with a bit of carafoam and victory. Had a few problems during brewing so when bottle conditioning was done and I found out I had reddish-purple beer, I figured it was those original problems and dumped the batch. Some bottles seemed worse than others, with definite off flavors there.
Batch 2 - Rye IPA - I took an Alpine Nelson IPA clone and changed it into my own thing, but the color should have been similar - less than 6 SRM.
Malt Bill - 8.5 lbs Pale, 2.25 lbs Rye, .75 lbs Crystal 20, Some corn sugar.
Bottle conditioned and color came out the same as batch one. reddish brown. See picture below.
The batch I made before these two batches was a saison that I bottled with brett (it came out great). I thought I cleaned my bottling bucket sufficiently, but now that I think about it - I may not have taken out the spigot and cleaned until after batch 1. But now that I read this thread and have had two batches come out with this color (and flavor) problem, I figure it must have something to do with the brett leftover in the bottling bucket. Of course it could also be something in the bottles.
So I'm going to thoroughly clean everything before my next batch, but wanted to fill everyone in on my story to see if it helps get to the bottom of anything.
Similar threads
