Cold IPA

[murphyslaw]

I've been intrigued by what I've read about this style. Wayfairer seems to have started it, and describes it as follows:

We made the first Cold IPA called “Relapse IPA” in October 2018 in honor of Relapse Records. We were trying to make something with the elements of West-Coast IPA but taken to the extreme. We wanted something drier with excessive hoppiness but a cleaner finish. Frankly, we tried to make a style of beer that could showcase American hops in a new way. Cold IPA hits with a strong punch of aromatic hop intensity and high bitterness but finishes crisp and clean leaving the drinker craving another sip. It’s Wester than West Coast.

Their malt bill is something like 70% pilsner and 30% corn or rice. They use 34/70 but ferment warm to get high attenuation and reduced ester production.

I'm interested in trying something like this. I make a lot of NEIPAs and think it'd be nice to have a complementing clear, crisp, IPA. I'm thinking something in the 6% range, not the 7% range that Wayfinder does, emphasizing drinkability.

But I'm not sure I understand what they get from 34/70. If they're fermenting warm to drive off the lager character, why not just use a clean ale yeast, like chico? Any idea what the 34/70 might contribute when fermented this way?

 

[Dgallo]

I personally hate the marketing for this style but again I’m sure the hbers before my time hated the marketing for the NEIPA. That said I had a few and they are solid. But I would coin them as NEIPLs.

 

[murphyslaw]

Yeah, the name doesn’t make a lot of sense. But the description is sounds interesting. Just not sure what they get out of a lager strain fermented to avoid lager character. I’m thinking of trying star party for this.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

But I'm not sure I understand what they get from 34/70. If they're fermenting warm to drive off the lager character, why not just use a clean ale yeast, like chico? Any idea what the 34/70 might contribute when fermented this way?

34/70 fermented warm has a reputation for being a fairly clean yeast that still produces "real" lagers in the low 60Fs (or some claim up 70F...I have only tried 34/70 once in a traditional lager fermentation). I would be curious what the character would be vs Chico fermented at 64F, or maybe Nottingham fermented at 60F (since I have read that Notty makes a very clean beer around that temp).

I have also wondered, since WLP051 is technically a lager yeast, how well does it work in the 60F or lower range?

 

[11thStBrewing]

I think the idea of using 34/70 is you can ferment at ale temps and still have the lager like character. More to avoid lager yeast at lager fermentation temps. Same reason anyone uses 34/70.

I'm about to brew my first light lager with 34/70 and throw a big cold IPA on the yeast cake to try it.

 

[user 231379]

I read an article somewhere and thought I'd give it a try. Replaced the pale malt in my IPA recipe with Pilsner malt and used 34/70 yeast. Kept my Cascade/Centennial hop schedule the same. Fermented the first 5 days at 56 degrees. Then let it free rise to basement temperature. It was a nice clean dry crisp finish. Got a lot of good feedback from friends around the pool. Want to try it again and will use Citra this time.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I read an article somewhere and thought I'd give it a try. Replaced the pale malt in my IPA recipe with Pilsner malt and used 34/70 yeast. Kept my Cascade/Centennial hop schedule the same. Fermented the first 5 days at 56 degrees. Then let it free rise to basement temperature. It was a nice clean dry crisp finish. Got a lot of good feedback from friends around the pool. Want to try it again and will use Citra this time.

Did you use other specialty grains like crystal, Munich, etc.? 100% Pilsner malt IPAs seem to be more common these days, but I am not positive I would enjoy that simple of a grain bill.

 

[lumbergh]

I personally hate the marketing for this style but again I’m sure the hbers before my time hated the marketing for the NEIPA. That said I had a few and they are solid. But I would coin them as NEIPLs.

I agree. It's made with lager yeast, so why are they calling it an ale?
I have tried a few and wasn't impressed. I do like some malt complexity and these had none.

 

[TBA]

I am planning on an Cold IPA. Been making a series of lagers with Diamond yeast, reusing the cake. Question about dry hopping though. I have been doing the cool crash (~55-58) before dry hopping with ale yeasts but that is still in the temperature range that lager yeasts like. Thinking of dropping all the way to 35 so the yeast will flock and then dry hopping. Ideas?

 

[Sammy86]

would be curious what the character would be vs Chico fermented at 64F, or maybe Nottingham fermented at 60F (since I have read that Notty makes a very clean beer around that temp).

I can tell you all anecdotally of course that 34/70 is clean from 60° to 66°. I've used it numerous times at different temp ranges and the beers always come out clean and crisp using this recipe Uncle Joe's German Pils

 

[RCope]

I am planning on an Cold IPA. Been making a series of lagers with Diamond yeast, reusing the cake. Question about dry hopping though. I have been doing the cool crash (~55-58) before dry hopping with ale yeasts but that is still in the temperature range that lager yeasts like. Thinking of dropping all the way to 35 so the yeast will flock and then dry hopping. Ideas?

What I've read with "Cold IPA" brewing is that a single fermentation dry hop and spunding is part of the process. I've only brewed one, rice flakes as the adjunct, used 34/70 at 60, fermentation dry hop at 4 days, started spunding on day 5. It was excellent, enjoyed by many. Basically a West Coast IPA with a light malt presence and a crisp finish. OG 1.060 with calculated ibu's at 66. Cheers!

 

[murphyslaw]

Here's what I'm going with (4 gallon batch):

Vitals​

Original Gravity: 1.058
Final Gravity (Fixed): 1.008
IBU (Tinseth): 49
BU/GU: 0.85
Color: 3.5 SRM

Mash​

Strike Temp — 152.4 °F
Maltose rest (beta) — 144 °F — 30 min
Dextrinization rest (alpha) — 160 °F — 45 min
Mash Out — 170 °F — 10 min

Malts (10 lb)​

7 lb (70%) — Avangard Pilsner Malt — Grain — 1.8 °L
3 lb (30%) — Briess Rice, Flaked — Grain — 1.3 °L

Hops (8.25 oz)​

0.25 oz (18 IBU) — Columbus/Tomahawk/Zeus (CTZ) 15.2% — Boil — 90 min
0.5 oz (10 IBU) — Mosaic 10.8% — Boil — 10 min
0.5 oz (12 IBU) — Simcoe 13% — Boil — 10 min
1 oz (4 IBU) — Mosaic 10.8% — Aroma — 30 min hopstand @ 160 °F
1 oz (5 IBU) — Simcoe 13% — Aroma — 30 min hopstand @ 160 °F
2 oz — Mosaic 10.8% — Dry Hop — day 3
2 oz — Simcoe 13% — Dry Hop — day 3
1 oz — Columbus/Tomahawk/Zeus (CTZ) 15.2% — Dry Hop — day 3

Hopstand at 160 °F

Miscs​

1.5 g — Calcium Chloride (CaCl2) — Mash
3 g — Gypsum (CaSO4) — Mash
7 ml — Lactic Acid 88% — Mash
0.47 g — Calcium Chloride (CaCl2) — Sparge
0.94 g — Gypsum (CaSO4) — Sparge
0.07 ml — Lactic Acid 88% — Sparge
5.828 tsp — Yeast Nutrients — Boil — 15 min
0.934 tsp — Irish Moss — Boil — 10 min

Yeast​

2 pkg — Fermentis W-34/70 Saflager Lager 83%

Fermentation​

Pitching Temp — 48 °F — 0 days
Primary (to 1.012 then hop & spund) — 65 °F (1 day ramp) — 4 days
Finish — 65 °F — 15 PSI — 7 days
Cold Crash — 30 °F — 2 days
Condition in Serving Keg — 38 °F — 7 days
Carbonation: 2.7 CO2-vol

Water Profile​

Ca2+ 66
Mg2+ 0
Na+ 8
Cl- 46
SO42- 99
HCO3- 16

 

[mashpaddled]

The whole cold IPA thing is just a rework of IPLs that were a thing briefly nine or so years ago, which is really just a stronger, pale lager with a lot of modern new world hopping. This version seems drier and fermented quicker with little to no lagering. If you want to find more recipes to work off of, just look through recipe databases for IPL.

 

[cactusgarrett]

just look through recipe databases for IPL

But substitute in a good portion of adjunct, amongst other things.

I'm not big on the marketing for this "style" (or whatever you want to call it), but all things mentioned put together (alt hopping scheme, adjuncts, low FG, etc.) I think it does warrant consideration for it's own style/subset of a larger style.

a single fermentation dry hop and spunding is part of the process

I haven't gleaned that those are required characteristics of cold IPAs. The one I've been testing out works really well with a DH charge at 2 days, then again at 4. That's not to say it wouldn't work as well with just one, but I really parsed out the "survivables" article from YCH and find some benefit in doing the first DH charge with one type of hop (a more survivable one), then the second one with a more delicate one.

FWIW, my latest iteration of cold IPA is somewhat standard in that it's 74% Pils, 26% minute rice, 1.065 OG, fermented with S-189 at 65F, 1.005 FG. However, for hopping it leans heavily on concepts from Janish's "New IPA" book in that the whirlpool is split in two (200F and 180F additions), as well as dry hopping in two separate portions (as mentioned above, Centennial & Amarillo). Earlier iterations packed the west coast punch, but were a bit too grassy/floral for my liking. As a result, I kept the bittering/late boil additions as Centennial and Loral, but changed from Centennial to Galaxy/Amarillo for the whirlpool.

 

[RCope]

@cactusgarrett My "research" was just reading what Kevin Davey (Wayfairer) wrote about his process. I'm sure that any hopping schedule would work to make good beer. I don't think there is only one process for Cold IPA...or for anything, for that matter . And I've used much of the info from Janish's book extensively. Cheers!

 

[user 231379]

Did you use other specialty grains like crystal, Munich, etc.? 100% Pilsner malt IPAs seem to be more common these days, but I am not positive I would enjoy that simple of a grain bill.

I used:

10 lbs Pilsner
1 lb Honey malt
1/2 lb C20
1 lb Honey

 

[RCope]

Did you use other specialty grains like crystal, Munich, etc.? 100% Pilsner malt IPAs seem to be more common these days, but I am not positive I would enjoy that simple of a grain bill.

I used:
9lbs Pilsner
1lb Vienna
2.5lbs Flaked Rice
8oz Carafoam
5oz Acidulated

 

[Ed-Wort]

I think the whole idea of a Cold IPA is that the malt and the yeast stay out of the way of the hops. That is why there is pilsner malt with lots of tasteless adjuncts added and a lager yeast that is clean. Then the hops alone are allowed to shine. I just tried a Fieldwork Cold IPA last night and I thought it was quite tasty.

 

[Sbe2]

Never heard of this style when I picked up a pack from a local brewery. They make some solid ipas so I went in blind. Idk if they didn’t execute, but I def got lager eaters from it. After the first few sips I was like this is an IPL. I initially thought it was an NEIPA fermented cold. Like using an ale yeast and fermenting below 50f if that’s possible. Nope just a NEIPL.


Sorry to dig up the thread but I just saw something on NB’s IG page.

 

[cactusgarrett]

I was at the Great Taste of the Midwest festival last week and had a couple that were most definitely not within the intended style - very much just a hazy IPA: juicy, hazy, muddled flavors. Some just don't execute or don't know what the intention of the style is.

 

[InspectorJon]

I was at South Lake Brewing Company the other day and had a Cold Pale Ale. Warm fermented 34/70. Very light color and crystal clear with strong American West Coast hoppyness. It was a really nice beer.

 

[deadwolfbones]

Sorry, can't help myself, but it's Wayfinder—not Wayfairer.

 

[murphyslaw]

Sorry, can't help myself, but it's Wayfinder—not Wayfairer.

Right. Typo in the first paragraph, correct later in the post.

 

[murphyslaw]

Alright well I really like this a lot. A lot a lot. It’s really just a super clean west coast ipa. It’s 6.6% but it feels light and I could easily drink bunch. A crushable, crisp, hoppy, tasty beer. Exactly what I hoped for.

It’s so hot & muggy outside so I can’t get a pic without the condensation. This is crystal clear in real life. Clearest beer I’ve ever made. Which is Apt, since I called it The Clear to distinguish from my NEIPAs. (Now I’ve got to make a cream ale to complement it and complete my Barry Bonds series.)


I think this is my first time successfully spunding a beer. And it’s also my first time serving from the fermenting keg. The only downside to that is my tilt is out of action until I kick the keg.

I MIGHT try adding chit or something to get the foam to last a bit longer. I might try different hopping techniques to make it a bit more aromatic, but those would be really small marginal improvements.

 

[murphyslaw]

As for the cold ipa vs ipl thing, I don’t care so much. But I’ve had a lot of IPL from Jack’s Abby and other places and they’re usually darker, maltier, and more lagery. This is closer to a traditional west coast ipa, IMO. Mind you, I’ve never had a commercial example.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

On this topic...I am in the planning phase for a Cold Pale Ale recipe. Maybe it is just a Hoppy Pilsner, but I figure if I throw a little rice in the mix and ferment with 34/70 in the low 60F range, I can claim the "Cold" label. I like the idea of a 5% crisp hoppy beer more than the typical 6.5% to 7% for Cold IPAs. I suspect that with a 1.050-ish OG that the rice is not needed to lighten the body. I might split a 5 gallon batch, half with 34/70 and half with Lutra.

On something that made me chuckle...Is "Hazy Cold IPA" the next thing?!? I got an email from Lallemand about the new LalBrew NovaLager yeast (which seems like a topic worthy of its own thread, but is not available in homebrew sizes). As part of the info on the yeast, then included a recipe for a Hazy Cold IPA. The recipe itself ignores the core aspects of "Cold IPA" and looks to just be a NEIPA fermented with this new Lager strain. So maybe a NEIPL?!?

https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/wp.../LAL-recipes-HazyColdIPA_-_NovaLager_10HL.pdf

 

[Miraculix]

On this topic...I am in the planning phase for a Cold Pale Ale recipe. Maybe it is just a Hoppy Pilsner, but I figure if I throw a little rice in the mix and ferment with 34/70 in the low 60F range, I can claim the "Cold" label. I like the idea of a 5% crisp hoppy beer more than the typical 6.5% to 7% for Cold IPAs. I suspect that with a 1.050-ish OG that the rice is not needed to lighten the body. I might split a 5 gallon batch, half with 34/70 and half with Lutra.

On something that made me chuckle...Is "Hazy Cold IPA" the next thing?!? I got an email from Lallemand about the new LalBrew NovaLager yeast (which seems like a topic worthy of its own thread, but is not available in homebrew sizes). As part of the info on the yeast, then included a recipe for a Hazy Cold IPA. The recipe itself ignores the core aspects of "Cold IPA" and looks to just be a NEIPA fermented with this new Lager strain. So maybe a NEIPL?!?

https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/wp.../LAL-recipes-HazyColdIPA_-_NovaLager_10HL.pdf

Wow, that yeast looks interesting. If I can get it, I'll be brewing my next apa with it at room temperature to see where we are at.

 

[cactusgarrett]

I suspect that with a 1.050-ish OG that the rice is not needed to lighten the body.

It's not about the OG, it's about the rice making this very fermentable, thus driving the FG low. The few I've done have finished at 1.005 or below.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I have heard some interviews with Kevin Davey from Wayfinder (he sure got popular recently) but a new video from Northern Brewer just came out. One thing that I had not heard before is that he recommends not using European barley/pilsner. His view was that the heavy use of adjuncts (rice/corn) was a way to offset the aspects of high protein North American barley varieties.

Personally, I suspect this is more of a preference thing. I am not sure I have ever purchased NA Pilsner malt (except small amounts of craft malt...I am a little curious about North Star Pils from Rahr). I have a bag of Avangard German Pils that I plan to use.

 

[cactusgarrett]

Nice vid. I especially like the part Kevin touches on with regards to needing the alcohol percentage to be higher in order to balance the dryness. I think that dryness/high alcohol, in combination with the aggressive bittering and the heavy use of adjuncts easily make this style its own, as opposed to being just and IPL or hoppy pils.

I am not sure I have ever purchased NA Pilsner malt

I'm in the same boat: I always have either Best Malz pils or Weyermann Barke. Don't get me wrong; they're great malts, but I feel like they're a bit "wasted" being used for this style. I just use them because it's the only pils I ever have on hand.