Co-pitching A09 Pub and US 05 - Timing?

[Miraculix]

Hi!

I am fermenting a Barleywine atm which had an OG of 1.098. I threw the Wort on a yeastcake of ordinary bitter directly after botteling, so the yeast count should be enough.

My concern is, that A09 tends to finish on the higher side but I love the esters it provides (and the floculation as well).

So my plan is to throw in a pack of relatively neutral US 05 after 3 days of fermentation. The reasoning behind this timing is that the majority of ester production should have happened already, but there should be still some sugar left for the US 05 to also get going. Then, when the A09 slowly does not find anything eatable any more, US 05 should still be able to find some consumable sugars to bring gravity down a bit further.

I hope to reach something around 75% attenuation this way to get 10% abv.

Does this sound like a good idea to you guys, or am I missing something? Never brewed a beer this big before.

It is currently in the bathtub to keep the temperature around 17-18 C, my girlfriend loves that!

Also that the whole bathroom smells wonderfully like caramelly english beer ...now that the yeast decided to climb through the air lock (no blow off tube installed, but needed), she even has some bubbelly yeasty visuals to adore that drop from the airlock into the bathtub, slowely colouring the water in a nice beery beige.

If you have a girl that tolerates stuff like this, it is wise to keep her I guess

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Be careful - the BBC started a new drama tonight about a brewer getting murdered - and the women around him are the prime suspects, although they deny everything...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p09hvb3k
Sounds like you're heading in the right direction, this may be useful if you've not seen it :
https://quaff.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/HighGravityFermentation-1.ppt

 

[day_trippr]

After 3 days a healthy pitch would have replicated numerous times to a much higher peak cell count while driving pH and gravity down and alcohol content up. Many of my fermentations are very close to expected FG after three days.

So, it will be interesting to see what happens, but my suspicion is pitching a single pack of any STA- yeast into such a hostile environment might not have as significant an effect as desired. Might even consider making a starter and pitching it at "high krausen" if low FG is important...

Cheers!

 

[Miraculix]

After 3 days a healthy pitch would have replicated numerous times to a much higher peak cell count while driving pH and gravity down and alcohol content up. Many of my fermentations are very close to expected FG after three days.

So, it will be interesting to see what happens, but my suspicion is pitching a single pack of any STA- yeast into such a hostile environment might not have as significant an effect as desired. Might even consider making a starter and pitching it at "high krausen" if low FG is important...

Cheers!

To my knowledge, the replication of yeast is mainly depending on sterols within the cell and the dry yeast from fermentis is packed with sterols, that's why they recommend not to oxygenate the wort when using their dry yeast.

This means that the us 05 should be able to grow a bit. But even if not, cell count is high and they won't die off because they are in beer, that's actually their preferred habitat (except for the higher alcohol levels, but this shouldn't be a problem for this strain).

So I rehydrated it to shield them better against elevated alcohol levels and pitched them today on day two, high Kräusen has already fallen but still plenty of activity in the air lock.

We know more about it in two and a half weeks!

 

[Miraculix]

Be careful - the BBC started a new drama tonight about a brewer getting murdered - and the women around him are the prime suspects, although they deny everything...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p09hvb3k
Sounds like you're heading in the right direction, this may be useful if you've not seen it :
https://quaff.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/HighGravityFermentation-1.ppt

Oh oh.... I better keep an eye on her!

Thanks for the link, I didn't know this one and will read it tonight.

 

[Miraculix]

Ok, it is three weeks later and I bottled the result. I started with the yeastcake Imperial A09 Pub from a best bitter und let it ride at around 17 C (waterbath) for three days. Then I pitched a hydrated pack of US05. Today I bottled and I got a final gravity of 1.019, down from an OG of 1.098 which gives me an attenuation rate of 79% and a resulting abv of about 11%.

IT TASTES ALREADY GREAT!!!! No alcohol burn or anything negative.

This is my first high gravity brew and I was a bit scared about hitting efficiency, fusels and whatnot, but it all went well. I got the Pub esters which I really love and I got the US05 attenuation. The beer I bottled was perfectly clear after three weeks, so I even got the flocculation of the A09.

I have high hopes for this one, it will surely get better with time.

 

[bjhbrew]

Sounds like a fun and tasty venture! would you care to share the recipe that you used?

 

[Miraculix]

Sounds like a fun and tasty venture! would you care to share the recipe that you used?

It was fairly simple.

OG: 1.10. 97% chevallier malt (that is THE flavour basemalt! cannot be substituted), 3% best heritage crystal, 10% cane sugar, turned into homemade invert number 2-3 (just boil raw cane sugar with a dash of lemon juice and water till it is nice and dark and smells and tastes really good, takes 1 to 2 hours).

50 ibus

The majority of the ibus from one 60 minute additions, i used 50g of Perle, and then 50g of East Kent Goldings for 10 minutes in the boil. I do not know if the Goldings addition will give me anything, as this will probably age for at elast a few months in the bottle, but certainly it is all very British now.

Pitch Pub A09 @ 17C, let it ride for three days, Pitch 1 pack of US 05 (rehydrated), let it ride @ 17C for five more days, then bring it up to room temperature. Leave it there for 2 more weeks (three weeks in ther fermenter in total), bottle with priming sugar, not too much, I used about 2/3 of what I usually use for a best bitter.

Simple but great!

 

[Miraculix]

Fellows, half a year later, this beer is MAR-VE-LOUS!

It is so nice, unbelievable. My first barley wine and it's exactly what I wanted it to be. It is sweet, it is bitter, it is flavourful, all at the right amount. It was ok after bottling, but now it is really really good.

My girlfriend says it tastes like it came from a whisky barrel, kind of bourbon-esque, but there was no bourbon. My guess is, it is the chevallier in combination with the heritage crystal. Boy is this good. And dangerous, at 11% abv.

 

[schmurf]

Sounds like a great experience! I'm having my first barley wine fermenting right now, brewed a little more than week ago. The grain bill is somewhat similar, golden promise, simpson caramalt premium and homemade invert... with slightly different proportions than yours. Using Wlp028 scottish ale. Wish I had seen this thread earlier and co pitched with US05 to made it more attenuatable... it stopped at 71% now but I had hoped it would have gone further.

 

[Miraculix]

Sounds like a great experience! I'm having my first barley wine fermenting right now, brewed a little more than week ago. The grain bill is somewhat similar, golden promise, simpson caramalt premium and homemade invert... with slightly different proportions than yours. Using Wlp028 scottish ale. Wish I had seen this thread earlier and co pitched with US05 to made it more attenuatable... it stopped at 71% now but I had hoped it would have gone further.

71 is perfectly fine. The taste is what counts!

 

[cyberbackpacker]

I'm not surprised it turned out so well... I mean your grist was 110% (97% + 3% + 10% Invert!) so of course the beer would be too

But seriously, very nice. I've not had a chance to use the heritage crystal before. What else have you used it in? What do you find it provides versus say regular Crisp or Fawcett Crystal ?

 

[Miraculix]

I'm not surprised it turned out so well... I mean your grist was 110% (97% + 3% + 10% Invert!) so of course the beer would be too

But seriously, very nice. I've not had a chance to use the heritage crystal before. What else have you used it in? What do you find it provides versus say regular Crisp or Fawcett Crystal ?

Hahahaha, you're right that's the special math batch

The heritage is a bit of a special crystal. I used it only twice, once in the bitter I brewed to get this barley wine's yeast cake I pitched it on and obviously in the barley wine itself.

The bitter was kind of a bit astringent, that needed to age out. I think it was the crystal, but I'm not sure. It's definitely not so sweet as "normal" crystal sometimes might be. I didn't get much fruitiness or caramel from it either. It goes more into the direction of tobacco and burnt sugar. Otherwise, no real experience with it. In a bitter, I probably wouldn't go beyond 5% with it any more.

 

[Miraculix]

Gentleman, I am still having some bottles left and this one gets better and better. I am usually not a fan of big beers but THIS ONE is a winner on all levels.

Maaaaan it is SOOO good.

Btw. Heritage Crystal is a rather horrible malt for everything that is not intended to age a long time. But here, it seems to shine.

 

[dmtaylor]

Cool experiment. All the flavor of A09, but with the attenuation of US-05. I can see how that would turn out well.