Closed-system pressurized fermentation technique!

[Firewalker11]

This is what i am using and have built for others.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007GDY3CU/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[acidrain]

This is what i am using and have built for others.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007GDY3CU/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

How do you get those apart?

 

[Firewalker11]

No need to take it apart, a soak in starsan or white vinegar will dissolve anything inside it and clean it up. These CAN be taken apart though, there is a Philips screw in the cap, remove it and unscrew the body, you will find a BB and a spring... Yes, they are just that simple.

The PSI markings are a joke, I like to take the tape off before sending them off, after all, there is a 0-60 PSI gauge on the T so an accurate pressure is always available.

 

[macok]

Hi!
When using Corny as primary fermenter after closed system fermentation/carbonation is done
1, most people transfers the beer under pressure into separate clean serving keg?
or
2, simple put the corny into kegerator, and serve from the same keg?
Which is the best method?
Second seems much simpler (pros:no serving keg cleaning, sanitizing, transferring), but what are the cons?
One batch is on tap now with method#2 and so far so good, but what do you think about disadvantages?

 

[macok]

Hi!
When using Corny as primary fermenter after closed system fermentation/carbonation is done
1, most people transfers the beer under pressure into separate clean serving keg?
or
2, simple put the corny into kegerator, and serve from the same keg?
Which is the best method?
Second seems much simpler (pros:no serving keg cleaning, sanitizing, transferring), but what are the cons?
One batch is on tap now with method#2 and so far so good, but what do you think about disadvantages?

 

[Firewalker11]

Hi!
When using Corny as primary fermenter after closed system fermentation/carbonation is done
1, most people transfers the beer under pressure into separate clean serving keg?
or
2, simple put the corny into kegerator, and serve from the same keg?
Which is the best method?
Second seems much simpler (pros:no serving keg cleaning, sanitizing, transferring), but what are the cons?
One batch is on tap now with method#2 and so far so good, but what do you think about disadvantages?

Hmmmm, the primary is the primary, some serve off the primary but with all that trub in the bottom, I want to get it off the yeast cake and get into a serving keg. I also filter so that I dont get any solids off in my pours.

 

[KEG99]

. . . some serve off the primary but with all that trub in the bottom, . . . I also filter so that I don't get any solids off in my pours.

I'm in the middle of filtering from my primary into my serving keg. But my filter gets totally clogged from the trub. I first pumped some of the trub into sludge bucket to get it partly clear, but there is still a lot of trub coming through. Enough to clog a 5 micron filter.

How do you all get the beer off the trub so that it can be filtered without clogging the filter?

 

[Firewalker11]

I'm in the middle of filtering from my primary into my serving keg. But my filter gets totally clogged from the trub. I first pumped some of the trub into sludge bucket to get it partly clear, but there is still a lot of trub coming through. Enough to clog a 5 micron filter.

How do you all get the beer off the trub so that it can be filtered without clogging the filter?

I cheat! I cut off 2" of the draw tube off the fermentation keg and fill it up to within 1" of the "IN" post, put a quick disconnect on and run a hose to a second keg with another quick disconnect to the **"OUT" post to capture any krausen and put a spunding valve on the "IN" post to regulate pressure. The guts of the posts and quick disconnects are removed to allow the krausen to move freely and not clog the small passages in the quick disconnects or posts.

I simply leave the two kegs hooked up and transfer out of the "OUT" post (see the picnic tap?) using the pressure from the catch keg to push the beer through the filter AFTER cold crashing.

This dedicated system allows me to do the whole thing from the moment the wort is cooled to the last pour without ever being exposed to the air.

"How about adjuncts or dry hopping?" Great questions! I simply use a 2L bottle, cleaned and purged, squeezed pretty flat, filled with wort from the keg and the adjunct or hops, leach out all the goodness and push it back through the "OUT" post on the beer keg. using a simple slip on SST filter to screen out any junk in the 2L bottle.

The point is: All the trub drops to the bottom, it never gets to the filter.



**Out post on the catch keg is a short "IN" post tube so that the krausen cannot even be drawn out of the catch keg. This keg only serves this purpose, it is not used to hold beer.

 

[b3b]

I pitched my yeast 24 hours ago and my pressure is only at 4psi. My spunding is set around 7psi and nothing is coming out. Shouldn't I have more pressure than that building up? This is my first attempt at brewing. Any ideas?

Temperature in my fermentation chamber is 65. This is an ale with dry yeast that I rehydrated before pitching. 11.5g safale us-05 in 5 gallon corny. I have a water filter hooked up to the gas out post for an overflow.

Also, what's everyone's procedure for sanitizing the corny?

 

[Firewalker11]

I pitched my yeast 24 hours ago and my pressure is only at 4psi. My spunding is set around 7psi and nothing is coming out. Shouldn't I have more pressure than that building up? This is my first attempt at brewing. Any ideas?

Temperature in my fermentation chamber is 65. This is an ale with dry yeast that I rehydrated before pitching. 11.5g safale us-05 in 5 gallon corny. I have a water filter hooked up to the gas out post for an overflow.

Also, what's everyone's procedure for sanitizing the corny?

My procedure for sanitizing the corny is to use StarSan, shake it up and pour out the liquid, leave the foam.

It can take a while to build up pressure, go have a homebrew, it will build up if there is ample viable yeast. I had one batch (S-05) that took 48 hours to show signs of life, don't know why but it finished 1.004, a little lower than the 1.008 I was hoping for.

 

[swiggingpig]

I originally posted this on a couple of UK forums last year but in hindsight I should have also posted it here, where I got most of my inspiration from. A little late but here is my experiance and technique.

My journey into fermenting under pressure all started after watching the brewing videos and reading the instruction manuals for the WilliamsWarn http://www.williamswarn.com/The-WilliamsWarn. What I particularly liked was that after pitching the yeast the beer never comes into contact with O2 until it lands into your glass to be drunk AND that the beer is carbonated and ready to keg/drink as soon as it’s finished fermenting.

I wanted a WilliamsWarn but the cost was too great, I think the price of the unit itself is OK but the shipping, duty and VAT was a killer.

So in true homebrewers tradition I set about trying to replicate as many of the benefits I like of the WilliamsWarn with equipment I could source in the UK and this thread which I can across whilst Googling for info.

After much deliberation and experimentation this is my current setup and process so I thought I would share this with you. I welcome all of your comments, questions, suggestions and criticisms.

I brew with a 20L Braumeister and have done for a few years now, quite simply the best investment I've ever made for my hobby. I’ve put up a brew day previously so I won’t go through that other than to show my way of avoiding dough balls.

I crush my grains directly into the Braumeister, except wheat which I crush twice, first into a bucket and then into the BM with the rest of the grains. I find that this cuts down on the dust produced and seems to eliminate dough balls.

I use 20L Sankey kegs so I brew to have 21L into the fermenter as I have about 1L dead space in my fermenter. After the boil has completed I run the wort through a counter flow chiller and a wine aerator into a 30L Sankey keg.

In order to prevent yeast from being transferred from the fermentation keg to the serving keg I place this over the end of the spear.

Like so

Once the 30L fermenting keg is filled the spear is inserted and the keg is transferred to my fermentation fridge. I have a small computer fan running to circulate the air which seems to help temperature stability. A keg coupler, with the one way valves removed, attached with a party tap on the beer out so that samples can be taken and the gas in is now a gas out. A line is attached to the gas out and fed through the side of the fermentation fridge.

The 20L serving keg also has a coupler on it with the one way valves removed, the beer out is now a gas in and the gas in is now a gas out. The gas out line from the fermenting keg is connected to the beer side of the serving keg and a pressure relief valve is connected to the gas side of the serving keg. This allows the serving keg to be purged of O2 by the CO2 produced during fermentation.

I use a STC-1000 which has had the firmware updated to STC-1000+ https://github.com/matsstaff/stc1000p , this allows me to set fermentation schedules which is very handy as I work away a reasonable amount.
I generally set the PRV to about 2 or 3 PSI for the start of the fermentation

After a few days I reset the PRV to about 12 PSI

I use the party tap to take samples to check gravity etc.

As you can imagine this method is not suited for dry hopping, to get around this I use the ‘hop tea’ method. I steep the hops, up to 50g, in a stainless steel insulated coffee press at 65C for 20 mins.

I then add this to a 10 inch water filter, the hops going into a container designed for resin refills

This way I can get every last drop of hop tea and as a plus is acts as a bit of a filter.

If I think the final sample is a bit hazy and I want to fine the beer I add the isinglass to the 10 inch water filter with the same insert but not necessarily the hops, depends on the recipe.
Both the fermenting keg and the serving keg are pressurised to about 8 PSI once the fermentation keg has been chilled to 3C for a couple of days I use some of this pressure to purge the water filter if I’m using it and then start a siphon going between the 2 kegs. This image shows its normal operation which is a straight forward transfer without hops or isinglass.

The water filter in this image is always in the transfer circuit, it protects the PRV from overflow and foam.
When I start to transfer I connect the fermentation keg beer connector to the serving keg beer connector, the serving keg gas connector to the water filter trap , this is tee'd off to a valve, another tee to allow extra CO2 to be introduced and then onto the gas connector of the fermentation keg.

I start the siphon by reducing the pressure in the serving keg with the valve closed and the PRV opened, once the beer is flowing I turn up the PRV and open the valve so the CO2 displaced by the beer in the serving keg can go into the fermentation keg to replace the beer. This works well enough for about ¾ of the beer volume and then the siphon stops, I’m not at all sure why, unless it’s because there is a background pressure of 6 to 8 PSI in the circuit ???

To get the balance of the beer from the fermentation keg to the serving keg I close the valve in the gas circuit, apply CO2 at around 6 PSI and the open the PRV to approx 4 to 5 PSI which pushes the remaining beer out of the fermentation keg into the serving keg, any overflow goes into the water filter.

Once the transfer is complete the couplings are removed from both kegs. The top of the spear on the serving keg is cleaned and sprayed with starsan before I either hook it up, already carb’d, to a beer line or a cleaned and starsan’d dust cover is fitted for storage.
When I tip out the last of the liquid in the fermentation keg it shows that this system has a dead space of just over 1.2L

If I allow it to settle is shows that the beer loss is quite acceptable

Once I’ve emptied the dregs from the fermentation keg I then use my CIP spray ball and a garden pump to clean it out.

My keg washer consists of a storage container

A sprayball from AliExpress http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-SS304-Threaded-Rotary-Spray-Ball-Stainless-Steel/32344674056.html

A 1" to 1/2" reducing bush and 12" PP Threaded Riser in 1/2" bsp from eBay.

A 3000l/h pond pump from eBay

Assembled, ready for use.

I used to use sodium percarbonate but found that it foams too much so I’m now using dishwasher powder.

I've been using this process for over a year now, done 25 brews so far and I've been getting very good results out of it with many different styles of beer such as saison, weissbier, bitter, APA, porter, IPA, brown ale, mild, pilsner and Belgium blond ale. Future brews will include styles such as Belgium Wit, Dry Irish Stout and an American Rye.

Any questions, please ask.

 

[b3b]

Thanks for the info Firewalker11. Yesterday my guage made it up to 7psi and was letting out a decent hiss of co2. This morning pressure had dropped down to 4psi and was barely hissing. From reading over info I expected more pressure. I hope everything is fermenting ok. I expected more pressure from reading everyone's posts.

I also tried to take a sample to test gravity but either my tube is clogged or I don't have enough pressure to pull a sample. What level psi do you need on a corny to get a sample out?

 

[Firewalker11]

If it dropped down to 4 psi, you need to turn out that knob little bit so it doesn't drop any lower than 7. The pressure will never go lower than what that knob is turned to.

 

[StopTakingMyUsername]

Quick question (and apologies if this has already been discussed)

We're using the Stout Tanks conicals, which say they're only rated to 4 PSI.

I really like the idea of fermenting under pressure to help reduce ester/fusel production and get a head start on carbonating.

Is it pointless to build a spunding valve if our vessels can only handle 4 PSI?

 

[Tegra]

Is it pointless to build a spunding valve if our vessels can only handle 4 PSI?

In my opinion this is a deal breaker. You do need to get at least 15 psi and preferably 22 psi to get full benefit. Even when crashing to about freezing you still need 8 psi to carbonate.

However, I have just found that 55 gal plastic drums can handle that pressure. They do bulge on the top and bottom but are rated at 23 pounds (1.5 atm)

I am using one to store co2 (on the memory of Oldfart from another board) and it is a cheap container ($15).

If I ever I need bigger ferments than my present sanke kegs that is the way to go.

Tom

 

[GORILLA]

+1. After fermentation begins the refractometer never agrees with the hydrometer reading. It's close but not reliable. I built an air lock from a water filter housing and cutoff part of a sanke dip tube. Being able to watch the bubbling allows me to gauge where the fermentation is at so I usually only take one sample before cold crashing to make sure I'm at or below the final gravity I'm expecting.

Am I understanding this correctly? And thank you for the post!

 

[crane]

Am I understanding this correctly? And thank you for the post!

Yes that is how it's hooked up.

 

[bierdeblanche]

Is there a benefit in doing this technique for estery ales? Seems counterproductive to me!

Almost seems mandatory for improving lagers.

 

[Jif]

Bear with me, I'm still parsing through this epic thread.

I've been focusing lately on heavily dry-hopped Northeast Style IPAs. My last batch had around 5 ounces of hops per five gallon batch.

I just got ahold of a sanke keg, as I brew ten gallon batches and would like to streamline this process a bit.

When dealing with this volume of dry hops, most of the folks find the most success creating a dry hop vessel like this one:

http://www.bear-flavored.com/2014/09/how-i-dry-hop-my-ipas-with-no-oxygen.html

I'm looking at getting a ten gallon Cornelius, setting up this dry hopping "bright tank" in there, before I transfer clear beer to five gallon kegs.

My thought was that I could primary for 4-5 days in the sanke, pressure transfer to the ten gallon corny, outfitted with the screen system outlined above, and attach a spunding valve and pressure ferment for the remainder of fermentation. I figure there should be enough yeast activity to create pressure and carbonate the beer, and the more fresh I get this beer into serving kegs, the better.

Am I crazy, or am I on to something?

 

[crane]

Bear with me, I'm still parsing through this epic thread.

I've been focusing lately on heavily dry-hopped Northeast Style IPAs. My last batch had around 5 ounces of hops per five gallon batch.

I just got ahold of a sanke keg, as I brew ten gallon batches and would like to streamline this process a bit.

When dealing with this volume of dry hops, most of the folks find the most success creating a dry hop vessel like this one:

http://www.bear-flavored.com/2014/09/how-i-dry-hop-my-ipas-with-no-oxygen.html

I'm looking at getting a ten gallon Cornelius, setting up this dry hopping "bright tank" in there, before I transfer clear beer to five gallon kegs.

My thought was that I could primary for 4-5 days in the sanke, pressure transfer to the ten gallon corny, outfitted with the screen system outlined above, and attach a spunding valve and pressure ferment for the remainder of fermentation. I figure there should be enough yeast activity to create pressure and carbonate the beer, and the more fresh I get this beer into serving kegs, the better.

Am I crazy, or am I on to something?

You are on the same track that I use for dry hopping, however I have been successful with just using the smaller coarser screen that fits directly on the dip tube without cutting the dip tube. I have used up to 3oz of pellet hops per 5 Gallon corny keg but have not had any clogging issues.

I will let it ferment out completely for 7 days as I don't have time during the week with work to transfer sooner. I add the hops to my dry hopping keg and purge it with CO2, then transfer the beer in. No need to try and time it so there is still fermentation activity after you transfer.

 

[Jif]

You are on the same track that I use for dry hopping, however I have been successful with just using the smaller coarser screen that fits directly on the dip tube without cutting the dip tube. I have used up to 3oz of pellet hops per 5 Gallon corny keg but have not had any clogging issues.

I will let it ferment out completely for 7 days as I don't have time during the week with work to transfer sooner. I add the hops to my dry hopping keg and purge it with CO2, then transfer the beer in. No need to try and time it so there is still fermentation activity after you transfer.

Interesting.

I have it on good authority that at least one of the prominent purveyors of NE IPA dry hops under pressure, so I'm thinking if I pull at four to five days into primary into a pressurized dry hop keg, that I should have good results.

 

[TheAxeman]

Epic thread - thanks to Wortmonger, SankePankey and everyone for all the helpful tips.

I'm on my third batch using this technique and loving it. I didn't even clean out the keg after transferring the last batch - just threw the next brew right onto the yeast cake.

I've been starting the ferment with a blowoff for the first couple of days, as I'm wanting my wild yeast to produce some esters. I then attach the valve, and let pressure creep up over the next 4 to 5 days to about 25psi (at about 65F), at which point the ferment is pretty much done.

While it does require daily checking/adjustment to ensure pressure doesn't drop/rise out of range, I love the fact that that there's no oxygen exposure, and the beer is already carbed up.

As a bonus, I can manhandle the fermenter to rouse the yeast, or move to my cool room without worrying about spilling, air exposure, or breaking the vessel.

Go Sanke!!

 

[1MadScientist]

Does anybody NOT pressure transfer to clean serving kegs when their fermenting is finished? I have religiously transferred all the time, but am now considering not to. I have 10 gallons coming out soon. What kind of problems taste wise will there be if I don't get the beer off the yeast? How long do I have to drink it up? Thanks...
MS

 

[DaWhip]

Also interested in the answer to the question above. I have to dry hop my current brew, so it makes sense to rack on top of the hops, but I would love to do single keg the whole way through if it isn't detrimental.

And my first ever pressure fermentation is now on day 2, so I guess it's about time I subscribe to this thread since its been so helpful.

I'm running a 2 corny setup, one for fermentation one for blowoff/CO2 capture. I have a full 5 gallons in the ferm keg and no blowoff at all with a little defoamer. I'm pretty surprised because there wasn't much headspace. Pitched WLP090 yesterday and I'm already 30% done!

 

[macok]

I asked the same question here before, but not too much answere came.
Yes, I tried the method leaving the beer in the fermenting corny kegs (and serving from it) more then one year ago, and I did not recognize too much problem with it, so I use this methodt since. Now I have nine cornies, and only one is held with original dip tube for tap cleaning purposes, the others are all fermenting/serving cornies with shorter/bended dip tube. The keg sanitizing process therefore is not necessery. I do not use starsan since more than a year. When I clean the corny, I use only oxyclean. I use lazy chill: hot wort goes to corny, I close it, and the corny goes to a barrel filled halfway with water. I use stir plate with real wort starter, so I pitch (without oxigenation) next day in my fermentation chamber (freezer+stc1000). I start fermentation in open way with blowoff tube through gas port with removed poppet/tube. After some days when the bubbles are slow enough, I reassemble the poppet into gas port and put my spunding valve on. After diacetyl rest and cold brake I remove spunding valve and cornies goes to keezer on tap. I pur the first half pint out.
- yeast harvesting is not so easy
- the first pints can be a bit hazy, but it disappears. Tha last half pint can also be hazy.

 

[DaWhip]

Thanks macok, that makes sense. I don't want to cut any dip tubes, but I don't mind a couple of cloudy pints if it saves a transfer. The first few pints could just be my yeast for the next batch. I also "lazy chill" so I'm guessing the longer dip tube will help with pulling the yeast out of the keg. How long have you gone with one sitting on the yeast?

 

[macok]

-You can cut it. Later you can restore the original state pulling a proper small silicone tube onto the steel tubes to join again the tubes.
- you can bend the dip tube carefully
- you can assamble a small stainless steel cup onto the original dip tube
Anyhow, i dont suggest using the original dip tube. It is better if it is above the yeast cake.

 

[macok]

It was about 3-4 months maximum. I simpy drinked it before having more experience. If you buy some belgian beer it has little yeast in the bottle bottom. And it is not always cooled 4C cold....

 

[DaWhip]

Last night we floated the keg of my first pressure fermentation. Yeast pitched on 12/12, transferred to serving keg on 12/22, floated keg with help from family & friends on 12/24. So nice already having it carbed up and doing the transfer was a breeze.

It was a good beer to drink fresh, but there was a huge difference from when it was first transferred and 2 days later. Soooo good after it smoothed out for another 48 hours. I don't plan on adhering to that tight of a timeline regularly, but it was awesome to know that I can in a holiday pinch.

Here is what fermentation looked like. I sampled a lot more than I usually do just to get an idea of what the pressure fermentation schedule looks like.

 

[DaWhip]

Oh, and a tip for adding the gelatin under pressure if interested - I put the gelatin in a soda bottle, put a carbacap on the soda bottle and pressurized it too about 50psi, then used a jumper from the soda bottle to the keg gas post. I had to squeeze the last little bit out, but it really worked like a charm.