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jeffrideal

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In my quest to find bottles without threading (non-twist) I have collected a few New Castle clear bottles. I know that they have to be kept out of light, but should I still use them?

Also, just for the record, here are some beers that do not have twist off.

Brooklyn Brewing
Stoudts
Any german wheat beer
red stripe (struggle to drink)
Troegs

Anyone want to contribute to this list?
 

uglygoat

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samuel adams
bass ale
guiness (you have to fish the little widget out, but the bottle is sexy)
 

uglygoat

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the one's i've recently bought have not been twist offs. but i do recall some that had twist caps a few years back. maybe they switched?

what i do is save the sturdy cardboard boxes that the beer is shipped in, and age the bottles in them, it's just easier to move em around that way. so with the clear bottles, if you bottled and closed em up in the boxes, so the light don't get to em too bad. it might work out for you.
 

rightwingnut

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Are you sure about Sierra Nevada? I though they were not twists. Sam Adams is not, at least what I've gotten lately. Harpoon is not twist.
 
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Becks are not twist as well.

I've heard it all about brown/green/clear bottles but I'd say go for the clear as long as they're stored in dark and when your ready to drink you put em in the fridge. I'm new so take it for what its worth but they have to be fine, just have to be a bit more careful I assume. Its all glass...

Or wait, is that light really on when you close the fridge?
 

rightwingnut

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desertBrew said:
Or wait, is that light really on when you close the fridge?
:D ! Yeah, hey, if the commercial breweries get away with clear...
And I had a 4-pack of Samuel Smith's Porter one day...didn't know they were clear until I poured. That's good beer.
 

Janx

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Sierra Nevada is a twist.

Us homebrewers can use clear, because we have so much control over how it's stored. Really, brown doesn't offer all that much protection unfortunately. Bottles are just kind of a drag for shipping beer. But for us, they're great. We can guarantee they are kept in the dark.

I've always thought it bizarre that Sam Smith's is in clear. It's fantastic beer, but 75% of the time I get it, it's skunked and light struck. A real shame.

I've been saying for a long time that microbrews need to revitalize the can as a storage medium. It's not practical for us, but for breweries, it's light, easily recyclable, cheap, and completely lightproof. Imagine Sam Adams or Sierra Nevada in a can. Far out. :D
 

rightwingnut

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That is far out...I'd love to see that...but you think there's a taste difference? Maybe not.
 

Dude

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Sam Adams isn't twist. Half of my extensive bottle collection is SA bottles!
Also, I can't use Bass bottles. Don't know if its the capper or the bottle but the extra lip below the bottle won't allow a good seal with a cap. Something to watch for when you are bottling and end up not being able to use the Bass bottles. A 2 liter Mountain Dew bottle saved me on the last bottling day.... :p
 

Brewman

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I use mostly Guiness bottles...... the brown are supposed to be the best on keeping UV outa the brew, also the Becks bottles are good to, Hein's work but I like the taller Becks.

go to your local distributer and buy back some of the deposits from them, thats what I do to get more bottles.
 

Janx

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rightwingnut said:
That is far out...I'd love to see that...but you think there's a taste difference? Maybe not.
I dunno, but a lot of those nitrogen-poured British beers come in cans. The best way to get Guiness is the tall cans because they have a nitrogen charge that is released when you open it that gives it that "Guiness" pour. Boddington's Bitter is another. I never noticed a taste issue. Usually they're a lot less skunky than the bottles.

I think the stigma of can flavor came about because of the crappy beer put into cans rather than the can themselves. People just blame the cans...right, like Budweiser tasted like Sierra Nevada, but then the can ruined it ;)

I did see that a microbrewery in Oregon or somewhere was putting beer in these packs like Capri-Suns...marketing them at hikers and backpackers.
 

homebrewer_99

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Janx said:
I've been saying for a long time that microbrews need to revitalize the can as a storage medium. It's not practical for us, but for breweries, it's light, easily recyclable, cheap, and completely lightproof.
Actually, the main reason why "they" want you to recycle aluminum is because of the fact that the can costs more than the beer inside it.
 

sause

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Last time I checked Rheinlander comes with out twist off, ahh.. Rheinlander as refreshing as Wisconsin's north woods. : )
 

arachnyd

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my favo bottles are german wheat beer bottles - love that tall shape and they hold a good sized portion

still, I generally keg - it's just a hell of a lot easier for anything you aren't planning on keeping forever - I prefer to drink the brew than save it - just the way I'm wired :cool:
 

DragonTail

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If you have access to a store that has returnable bottles they are all "non-twist". I get mine for the price of the deposit, $1.20 a case. :cool:
 

uglygoat

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collecting different bottles to put my own beer in, is now my excuse for buying expensive and exotic beer. when i show my wife the cost of bottles you buy empty as opposed to the ones you buy with beer already in them ;)
 
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t1master said:
collecting different bottles to put my own beer in, is now my excuse for buying expensive and exotic beer. when i show my wife the cost of bottles you buy empty as opposed to the ones you buy with beer already in them ;)
Bingo, that's what I'm doing as well.
 

Chris Straub

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Buy any 12 oz. returnable bottles... They don't have twist off... I can sell you bottles if you want that are not twist off. Email me at [email protected] You can buy brand new or used that have been put through the soaker. I'm in PA. Thanks.
 

KingDeer

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Excuse my rookie-ness - I'm taking it that twist-off bottle caps (miller lite for example) are not a good choice to save for my beer? Thanks in advance.
 

arachnyd

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it is very difficult to get a reliably tight seal with twist-off bottles - don't waste your time and take a chance on flat beer!
 

Chris Straub

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Twist-Offs work fine when you are applying crowns with an expensive crowner designed for air tight seals, like those on a large scale filler from a company like Krones. There is no difference in seal quality on a twist off compared to a pry off for large breweries, no matter what anyone says. But for you homebrewers pry-off are the easier to use and it is hard to get a good seal on twist-offs using hand crowners. To obtain 12 oz. pry-offs buy Samuel Adams, many micros, or buy 12 oz. returnables from the big guys and use their bottles, which may be a little unethical because the point is they want there bottles back. Hope that helps.
 

arachnyd

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around here, no one wants the bottles back - the deposit merely keeps them off the side of the road. Stores typically crush them. So don't let your conscience bother you about keeping them.
 

Chris Straub

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There is no brewery in the U.S. that doesn't want the returnable bottles back because they cost about $4/case new just for the bottles. Unless a brewery is ending their returnable line they want the bottles back to keep it as a viable package and not lose money. I'm not talking about the deposit system that states have, I'm talking about returnable bottles that get re-filled. So they are the property of the brewery.
 

homebrewer_99

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I'm not wanting to get into this one again, BUT...I agree with arachnid in that the deposit is only one way to keep litter off of the road.

Simple rule though: If you want your $$$ back you'll take the bottles back.

If that really were the case then companies would take even broken bottles back, but they don't. They just smile all the way to the bank with your $.05 donation.

I would consider it a business loss that is deducted on their corporate taxes so they actually "win-win" coming and going? (A rhetorical question that requires no answer). Of course anything not claimable is directly proportionable to their operating cost and passed on to the consumer in the form of a price hike.

Then you have MANY places will not take bottles back unless you made the purchase from that particular establishment. :D

STORE QUOTE: "I'm sorry, we don't take those bottles because we don't sell that brand". So much for wanting to recyle.

In Germany even the plastic soda and water bottles have deposits...and in case you're curious, many places also follow the same rules as far as brand recognition.

What about all the other bottles that DO NOT have a deposit? It's apparent that those companies don't want them back.

Janx, I know where you're coming from and what you are attempting to do, but sometimes you just can't wrestle a pig! It just doesn't work.

Good effort on your part though. :D I'll give you that.
 

Janx

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homebrewer_99 said:
Janx, I know where you're coming from and what you are attempting to do, but sometimes you just can't wrestle a pig! It just doesn't work.

Good effort on your part though. :D I'll give you that.
Huh? I haven't been in this thread since a page ago before all this ethics-of-deposits stuff. And now I have to wrestle a pig? :D

I'm lost...as usual...
 
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I gotta beg to differ on that $4 per 24x of bottles. I can guarantee that Millhair and Budspewer are NOT paying that. Do the math on their $12-15 case & $35 per hr union boyz. What the heck is the diff between toss em in the recycler bottles and "I want em back" bottles.

Are we talking about the MI, CA etc labels stating .10 per bottle refundables to whereever the hell your supposed to return em? We're not in the 70's anymore and I'd 'bout suspect they all get melted down no matter how they get em be it their local retailer or Waste Management. QC is going to require new sparkly clean bottles from every batch sold and brewers are not in the biz of makin bottles. I haven't purchased an old scratchy case of full glass bottle beer in a long time (showing age) and yes I AM drinking mass quantities of my own stuff right now :D
 

Chris Straub

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Ok for everyone here, this is the explanation from the brewery side. I am part of a brewery that produces about 35,000 barrels per year so I know what I'm talking about. There are non-returnable bottles which are the twist-off and they are cheaper. Bud and Miller are paying about $.12/bottle for these for a total cost of about $2.90/case. These bottles are never reused and are recycled or thrown out. States do charge deposits on these to encourage recycling. The brewery has no cares about whether you return these bottles because it is not responsible for the deposit. This is the 5 or 10 cent deposit you pay in certain state that have a bottle bill.
Now onto the "returnable bottles". These bottles are pry-off and much thicker and well made. They cost about $4/case. These bottles have a brewery deposit (as compared to a state deposit) of $1.50 which is the industry standard. The bottles are returned to the brewery and put through a soaker in which the labels are removed and the bottles are sanitized with sodium hydroxide. The bottles are filled and new labels applied. They are put in the same boxes again and shipped. This saves on glass and boxes because both are reused but costs more to clean the bottles and also some glass is not returned and some is broken which must be thrown out. It usually nets a savings of about $1-$1.50/case when its all said and done. This assumes they are getting enough glass back to refill. The boxes are over $1/box because they are thick laminated cardboard as compared to the cheaper cardboard used for NR boxes which are usually around 50 cents/box. Most of these returnables are sold to bars, many consumers do not even know about the returnable system anymore these days, which may have led to the confusion on your part.
So I hope all of you consumers now understand my point. I am not saying that you shouldn't keep those NR bottles because the brewery doesn't care about them. They never reuse that glass or cardboard but when you buy a case of "returnables" they should be returned. If they are not returned the brewery has to invest $5 for a new case and glass to put back in the line. If this is not expressingly clear please email me at [email protected] and I will explain further.
 

Janx

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Chris Straub said:
If they are not returned the brewery has to invest $5 for a new case and glass to put back in the line. If this is not expressingly clear please email me at [email protected] and I will explain further.
Thanks for the explanation. But wasn't the $5 you mention paid for by the consumer. So, effectively, you bought the bottles? I used to get some local beer in Boulder Colorado that worked like that. The stuff was dirt cheap as long as you brought back the empties. They charged something like $8-10 to make sure you brought it back.

In other words, don't the financial incentives urge the consumer to return the bottles, but if they don't, well, the brewery already got paid for them anyway?
 

arachnyd

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buying in michigan, most stores handle all the returned bottles the same way - typically they go into a machine that reads bar codes and prints a receipt that you take to the cashier. Inside the machine is a hopper - all the bottles go together - regardless of the type - miller lowlife or heavy reusable bottles. Some kid comes and replaces the hopper when it gets full, takes it to the back of the store where they have a crusher and dumps the bottles - actually, many of the kids delight in the sound of breaking glass, so throw the bottles one by one (also a good way to kill time they are being paid for). Your precious reusable bottles become shards just like the buttwiper bottles. So, if I keep a few back, I feel I am actually saving a good bottle from an early grave.
 

Chris Straub

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I am a member of the Straub Brewing family. Check out www.straubbeer.com for more information. I'm a 19 year old college student in Chemical Engineering at Penn State. Thats why I'm so ardent about respecting brewery property. Sorry if I come off as cocky or whatever.
 

Chris Straub

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Janx said:
But wasn't the $5 you mention paid for by the consumer. So, effectively, you bought the bottles? .....

In other words, don't the financial incentives urge the consumer to return the bottles, but if they don't, well, the brewery already got paid for them anyway?
No the consumer does not own the bottles. There is an industry standard $1.50 deposit as the incentive on the bottles and case. It has been $1.50 for many decades because things like that are hard to change. Fifty years ago $1.50 covered everything and if you didn't return it thats your fault. Now if you don't return the bottles the brewery gets your $1.50 but is still at a loss of $3.50. The price of the case does not cover the bottles for returnables. The cost of non returnable bottles is covered by the cost of the case, thats why they are yours to keep or recycle. Anything else I need to clear up??
 
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