Cleaned Water, Tap Water, or Adjusted Water?

[TEWNCfarms]

I was going to use some vending machine water that runs it through a carbon filter at first and at end, reverse osmosis, and ultra violet light, since this is the cheapest cleanest water I can get. My farm house has pipes from the 40-50s and definitely has iron in it, not visible though. But I keep reading people acidify their water, and add minerals/salts to their brew water. What is the reason for this?

I’m trying to stay as pure and true to Brewing as possible, and would prefer Not to add additives to my beer, to just use malt, hops, and yeast.

 

[RM-MN]

if you are making beer from malt extract you can go directly to RO or distilled as this is the closest to what was removed in making the extract. When making beer from all grain the enzymes need some minerals in the water.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

I was going to use some vending machine water that runs it through a carbon filter at first and at end, reverse osmosis, and ultra violet light, since this is the cheapest cleanest water I can get. My farm house has pipes from the 40-50s and definitely has iron in it, not visible though. But I keep reading people acidify their water, and add minerals/salts to their brew water. What is the reason for this?

I’m trying to stay as pure and true to Brewing as possible, and would prefer Not to add additives to my beer, to just use malt, hops, and yeast.

If you're mashing with all grain the ph can be important. Adding acid lowers the ph. I don't know if you'd need to with RO water but with my tap water I need to add some lactic acid to get the ph down to where I want, ~5.2-5.4.

Adding salts can also help lower ph and people do it for flavor purposes. Sulfate(gypsum) and calcium chloride are two popular additions. Lots of info on these subjects in the Brew Science section if you have a few hours/days to kill.

 

[TEWNCfarms]

if you are making beer from malt extract you can go directly to RO or distilled as this is the closest to what was removed in making the extract. When making beer from all grain the enzymes need some minerals in the water.

I gotcha. So if I’m doing all grain I should use tap water then and just let it sit out 24 hours to remove chlorine? Again, I’m trying to keep my beers as pure as possible, I don’t want to add chemicals to them.

 

[TEWNCfarms]

If you're mashing with all grain the ph can be important. Adding acid lowers the ph. I don't know if you'd need to with RO water but with my tap water I need to add some lactic acid to get the ph down to where I want, ~5.2-5.4.

Adding salts can also help lower ph and people do it for flavor purposes. Sulfate(gypsum) and calcium chloride are two popular additions. Lots of info on these subjects in the Brew Science section if you have a few hours/days to kill.

Are sulfate and calcium chloride chemicals? Again I guess my reasoning is, for thousands of years they’ve made beer and weren’t pHing their beer. Even over the past hundreds of years, the Belgians weren’t adjusting pH and adding chemicals, at least that’s my understanding...

 

[bracconiere]

Are sulfate and calcium chloride chemicals? Again I guess my reasoning is, for thousands of years they’ve made beer and weren’t pHing their beer. Even over the past hundreds of years, the Belgians weren’t adjusting pH and adding chemicals, at least that’s my understanding...

everything is a chemical?

i think calcium chloride would be an inorganic chemical though? no carbon or hydrogen in it...

and if you have iron in your water could try something like what i use for my tap water.:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/EcoOne-Adv...h=item4d457ba7e7:g:U-sAAOSwCXJbDUI0:rk:2:pf:0

i only adjust my ph for best efficiency, don't have too. it would still be beer.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Are sulfate and calcium chloride chemicals?

Yes. So is water.

Again I guess my reasoning is, for thousands of years they’ve made beer and weren’t pHing their beer. Even over the past hundreds of years, the Belgians weren’t adjusting pH and adding chemicals, at least that’s my understanding...

Brewers have always adjusted pH (well, maybe not a thousand years ago) even though they may not have known what they were doing. By using different (more/less roasted) malt, acid rests and acid malt, pH can be adjusted.

Calcium chloride and Calcium sulphate are salts that are naturally found in water supplies.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

I’m trying to stay as pure and true to Brewing as possible, and would prefer Not to add additives to my beer, to just use malt, hops, and yeast.

If you want to stay true to brewing, without using additives, you'll need a water analysis and then only brew beer styles that are suited to your brewing water. That will most likely be moderately dark to very dark beer. You can brew with straight RO water, but your beer will be better with some salt additions (to enhance flavour, just like table salt) and pH adjustment with acids or bicarbonates.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

Are sulfate and calcium chloride chemicals? Again I guess my reasoning is, for thousands of years they’ve made beer and weren’t pHing their beer. Even over the past hundreds of years, the Belgians weren’t adjusting pH and adding chemicals, at least that’s my understanding...

I'm pretty sure sulfate and calcium chloride are minerals. If you use tap water there likely will already be some in it. In addition to chlorine or worse the chloramines which don't off-gas. You'd probably need a campden tablet to eliminate that.

It's your beer though, if you want to do it as closely to our distant ancestors as possible have at it. They also didn't use computers though

 

[Bimmster]

If Using RO water with a final mineral cartridge on the output do I need additional water treatment for a LME/DME brew?

 

[RM-MN]

I gotcha. So if I’m doing all grain I should use tap water then and just let it sit out 24 hours to remove chlorine? Again, I’m trying to keep my beers as pure as possible, I don’t want to add chemicals to them.

That works if your town is using chlorine....right up until the town changes to chloramine and you ruin a batch or 2 of beer before you find that out. A much simpler way is to crush 1/4 campden tablet and add it to your 5 gallons of water before you brew with it as it will remove the chlorine/chloriamine. Campden tablets are chemicals... but they remove other chemicals. It's a wash.

 

[RM-MN]

If Using RO water with a final mineral cartridge on the output do I need additional water treatment for a LME/DME brew?

No. In fact you could brew without the mineral cartridge. The minerals are there to make the drinking water taste good. They shouldn't hurt anything for a LME/DME brew.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

i think calcium chloride would be an inorganic chemical though?

That is correct. Even some compounds with Carbon (CO2, CO, CaCO3 etc.) are inorganic.

 

[Bimmster]

No. In fact you could brew without the mineral cartridge. The minerals are there to make the drinking water taste good. They shouldn't hurt anything for a LME/DME brew.

Thanks RM-MN

 

[TEWNCfarms]

everything is a chemical?

i think calcium chloride would be an inorganic chemical though? no carbon or hydrogen in it...

and if you have iron in your water could try something like what i use for my tap water.:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/EcoOne-Adv...h=item4d457ba7e7:g:U-sAAOSwCXJbDUI0:rk:2:pf:0

i only adjust my ph for best efficiency, don't have too. it would still be beer.

Haha Yeah I know, but you all know what I’m referring to. But I see now what you’re saying about efficiency, I would rather have great beer than meh beer. And thanks for that filter suggestion I had no idea! I need that alone for my garden, not that I ever need much water since it rains all the time here.

 

[bracconiere]

That works if your town is using chlorine....right up until the town changes to chloramine and you ruin a batch or 2 of beer before you find that out. A much simpler way is to crush 1/4 campden tablet and add it to your 5 gallons of water before you brew with it as it will remove the chlorine/chloriamine. Campden tablets are chemicals... but they remove other chemicals. It's a wash.

actually i think they turn chemicals that have high bad taste threshold, and turn them into other chemicals that don't have flavor? lol

 

[TEWNCfarms]

If you want to stay true to brewing, without using additives, you'll need a water analysis and then only brew beer styles that are suited to your brewing water. That will most likely be moderately dark to very dark beer. You can brew with straight RO water, but your beer will be better with some salt additions (to enhance flavour, just like table salt) and pH adjustment with acids or bicarbonates.

Yeah I didn’t think about that, haha I guess if you asked me if I wanted any Sodium Chloride I’d say ew no I don’t want any chemicals on my food! But Salt is the Key to Great food. Thanks for explaining it that way, I’m definitely going to be adding “chemicals” now.

Would I be better to buy the filter suggested and use tap, or should I use the RO, CF, UV water I just bought and add the salts to it? It’s $2 for 5 gallons, and I’m willing to pay for it if it’s going to be a cleaner tastier beer, especially when salted.

 

[TEWNCfarms]

I'm pretty sure sulfate and calcium chloride are minerals. If you use tap water there likely will already be some in it. In addition to chlorine or worse the chloramines which don't off-gas. You'd probably need a campden tablet to eliminate that.

It's your beer though, if you want to do it as closely to our distant ancestors as possible have at it. They also didn't use computers though

Haha yeah you’re right, and I can hardly divide without my phone.

Is the campden tablets needed for the RO, CF, UV water?

 

[bracconiere]

Haha Yeah I know, but you all know what I’m referring to. But I see now what you’re saying about efficiency, I would rather have great beer than meh beer. And thanks for that filter suggestion I had no idea! I need that alone for my garden, not that I ever need much water since it rains all the time here.

According to california's prop 65? i see warnings on malt mills, and just about everything else now because of that!

 

[TEWNCfarms]

That works if your town is using chlorine....right up until the town changes to chloramine and you ruin a batch or 2 of beer before you find that out. A much simpler way is to crush 1/4 campden tablet and add it to your 5 gallons of water before you brew with it as it will remove the chlorine/chloriamine. Campden tablets are chemicals... but they remove other chemicals. It's a wash.

Yeah I gotcha on that, I definitely would be real upset.

 

[TEWNCfarms]

According to california's prop 65? i see warnings on malt mills, and just about everything else now because of that!

Haha yeah that’s true.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Would I be better to buy the filter suggested and use tap, or should I use the RO, CF, UV water I just bought and add the salts to it?

It depends on what your tap water is like. Where does you water come from? Someone has probably already had it tested and listed it somewhere on the internet. If not, you would need to send a sample off for testing to see if it's suited to brewing.....or just use RO.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

Haha yeah you’re right, and I can hardly divide without my phone.

Is the campden tablets needed for the RO, CF, UV water?

No, pure water like that wouldn't have chlorine or chloramines. I know my tap water does though, so I have to get rid of it. I didn't do anything my first few batches and I was getting some off flavors

 

[TEWNCfarms]

It depends on what your tap water is like. Where does you water come from? Someone has probably already had it tested and listed it somewhere on the internet. If not, you would need to send a sample off for testing to see if it's suited to brewing.....or just use RO.

It’s Pender County NC but I’m farrr away from the main facility, there’s a pump house like 10 miles down the road, but I’m pretty sure it’s running for like 30-40 miles at least before it ever gets to my house, and then again running through some old pipes.

Where should I send for a test?

 

[TEWNCfarms]

No, pure water like that wouldn't have chlorine or chloramines. I know my tap water does though, so I have to get rid of it. I didn't do anything my first few batches and I was getting some off flavors

Awesome thanks! I think I’m probably just going to stick with the clean water for my brews... but I don’t know yet.

 

[jack13]

If you have lots of iron, I'd either get a filter that gets rid of iron (as someone suggested) or get RO and add some minimum brewing salts (CaCl, etc.). I wouldn't think of that as using additives...if so then using tap water is using additives in your beer (?). Think of it as simply having more control over necessary components of your water.

I switched from tap water with iron to RO with brewing salts and my beer improved significantly.

 

[TEWNCfarms]

If you have lots of iron, I'd either get a filter that gets rid of iron (as someone suggested) or get RO and add some minimum brewing salts (CaCl, etc.). I wouldn't think of that as using additives...if so then using tap water is using additives in your beer (?). Think of it as simply having more control over necessary components of your water.

I switched from tap water with iron to RO with brewing salts and my beer improved significantly.

Thanks I think that’s exactly what I’m going to do!

 

[jack13]

Thanks I think that’s exactly what I’m going to do!

Cool, and I think you mentioned getting it out of the dispensers at the store (filling your own containers). Good, that is by far the cheapest way to buy it.

 

[GPa Bob]

You can brew with straight RO water, but your beer will be better with some salt additions (to enhance flavour, just like table salt) and pH adjustment with acids or bicarbonates.

I've been brewing with RO I buy in my local grocery and fill my container from a dispenser. Costs less then $2 for 5 gallons. I have been only brewing extract but haven't added anything. How much salt and bicarbonates would you recommend for a 5 gal batch? Is there a good reference site for brewing water?

 

[Gnomebrewer]

I've been brewing with RO I buy in my local grocery and fill my container from a dispenser. Costs less then $2 for 5 gallons. I have been only brewing extract but haven't added anything. How much salt and bicarbonates would you recommend for a 5 gal batch? Is there a good reference site for brewing water?

I've only ever brewed a couple of extract batches (it was too expensive, so I went to all grain), but my understanding is that you don't need any salt additions (including sulphates, chlorides and bicarbonates, which are salts) with extract - it already contains the salts that were in the water from the original wort.

 

[4of7]

Okay I'll say it..some here will Brew and keep on brewing..they know about the water but unsure what to do about it.. I started with city water and it's was good...but if you are trying to X ,they have X water that you want to match/adjust too yeah it could be done .,, But why? .. it's all about your beer , I have well water,, do I care if my water is like nyc, or bitburg Germany,,,, no, I care about my beer....it will be your brew house flavor

 

[TEWNCfarms]

I've only ever brewed a couple of extract batches (it was too expensive, so I went to all grain), but my understanding is that you don't need any salt additions (including sulphates, chlorides and bicarbonates, which are salts) with extract - it already contains the salts that were in the water from the original wort.

Yeah this is why I’m switching to all grain... but I did just buy two more Extract kits and then all grain kit to get an even better feel for it all and they were pretty cheap like $28 for the kit plus $9-11 for the yeast.

Off topic question real quick, if I buy a 55 lbs bag of Pilsner let’s say, can I exchange that malt for certain recipes calling for a different malt? Vice versa? I just don’t want to buy some big bags and end up only being able to brew certain beers. Granted All I’m really wanting to brew is traditional sours... so maybe those malts are almost all the same.?

 

[TEWNCfarms]

Okay I'll say it..some here will Brew and keep on brewing..they know about the water but unsure what to do about it.. I started with city water and it's was good...but if you are trying to X ,they have X water that you want to match/adjust too yeah it could be done .,, But why? .. it's all about your beer , I have well water,, do I care if my water is like nyc, or bitburg Germany,,,, no, I care about my beer....it will be your brew house flavor

Well stated I like that. I guess my biggest concern is the chloramine like someone mentioned earlier, my area has been exploding in growth haha I’m finally about to get Sewer... so last I checked they do Not add chloramine But in a year or more what if they do, and I ruin some nice sour I brew, and a year down the road I find out it’s ruined, you know.

 

[4of7]

Well stated I like that. I guess my biggest concern is the chloramine like someone mentioned earlier, my area has been exploding in growth haha I’m finally about to get Sewer... so last I checked they do Not add chloramine But in a year or more what if they do, and I ruin some nice sour I brew, and a year down the road I find out it’s ruined, you know.

Do you have well water? Do you treat it /fiter,, are you on city water? Cuz they sure treat with chemicals ,does your water have any smell or taste? It's a balancing act for brewing."Stay strong and Brew on"

 

[TEWNCfarms]

Do you have well water? Do you treat it /fiter,, are you on city water? Cuz they sure treat with chemicals ,does your water have any smell or taste? It's a balancing act for brewing."Stay strong and Brew on"

It definitely has a slight hint of iron... vending water and salts is my plan. Thanks brother, first brew down... a lifetime to go!

 

[4of7]

It definitely has a slight hint of iron... vending water and salts is my plan. Thanks brother, first brew down... a lifetime to go!

I have well water, no bad smells or taste,,, same well head spot since '60s.. I filter drinking water thru three different filters.. I do not adjust water at all, not saying that it's bad to do, I just filter,.and I don't RO,.. "Stay strong and Brew on"

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Off topic question real quick, if I buy a 55 lbs bag of Pilsner let’s say, can I exchange that malt for certain recipes calling for a different malt? Vice versa? I just don’t want to buy some big bags and end up only being able to brew certain beers. Granted All I’m really wanting to brew is traditional sours... so maybe those malts are almost all the same.?

If I was to buy a single bag of base malt to use exclusively, it would be plain 2-row. Pils malts can be quite strongly grainy tasting (with variability between maltsters). I normally keep a bag of pils (for lagers and belgians), a bag of plain domestic 2-row and a bag of ale malt. I can't really comment for sours - I've only done a couple of batches (I think they used pils and wheat malts).

 

[TEWNCfarms]

If I was to buy a single bag of base malt to use exclusively, it would be plain 2-row. Pils malts can be quite strongly grainy tasting (with variability between maltsters). I normally keep a bag of pils (for lagers and belgians), a bag of plain domestic 2-row and a bag of ale malt. I can't really comment for sours - I've only done a couple of batches (I think they used pils and wheat malts).

Yeah from what I was reading in the recipes of “American Sour Beer” he has Pilsner malt as pretty much the main base in almost Every recipe.

What is the 2 row really good for? The styles?

I was thinking buying a sack of Pilsner, and a sack of Wheat (I think malt, I know some they use just berries). And then buying what I need when I need it for the rest. That’s for the sours.

In between making sours while they’re aging, I’m going to be making lots of other styles, IPAs, some stouts, British ales... I just can’t do lagers. So would the 2 row be best for these styles?

 

[Gnomebrewer]

2-row is good for anything, but generally needs some specialty malt added. The point is that it's versatile. Pils, Ale malts, Vienna and Munich all have more unique flavour, limiting the beers they are suitable for. You can use one in place of the other, but the beer will be quite different. Since you got me thinking about this, I'd like get a bag of Vienna (good German stuff, not domestic Australian which is a bit tasteless) next - it's probably my favourite base malt. The problem is that I brew a lot of English Ales, and it doesn't really fit. It's great for hefeweizen, belgians, lagers and APA though, which I also brew quite often.

 

[TEWNCfarms]

2-row is good for anything, but generally needs some specialty malt added. The point is that it's versatile. Pils, Ale malts, Vienna and Munich all have more unique flavour, limiting the beers they are suitable for. You can use one in place of the other, but the beer will be quite different. Since you got me thinking about this, I'd like get a bag of Vienna (good German stuff, not domestic Australian which is a bit tasteless) next - it's probably my favourite base malt. The problem is that I brew a lot of English Ales, and it doesn't really fit. It's great for hefeweizen, belgians, lagers and APA though, which I also brew quite often.

Awesome thanks!

I’m glad you mentioned English ales... so I just bought three kits to ease me into doing my own grain bills; lemondrop saison Extract with a wyeast french saison yeast, spiced winter ale extract with omega Scottish ale yeast, and then cranberry gruit all grain with wyeast London ale yeast.

I was thinking of doing the spiced ale with either the Scottish or London and either doubling my starter to do the gruit with it or saving the yeast cake for the gruit; thebgruit will be my first attempt at AG BIAB.

Is there a yeast that I should save more than the other to do English ales and or ipas or what have you? I’m just afraid if I save the cake from a spiced beer it’s going to flavor the beer I don’t want spices in with the spices.

What are some good English ale recipes to try out?