Clarity-Ferm, Gluten Testing, and Gluten Sensitivity

[PhillyBrewer]

I just brewed a Porter from barley using Brewers Clarex and had the beer testet, and the test found no traces of gluten. (The lowest threshold of the test is 2ppm).

Thanks for the update, brujoand. What type of test did you use? The articles I posted previously were tested with the ELISA test which is basically the best current way to test gluten. From what I understand, though, people still argue that even if beers where clarex was used test below 20 ppm, the gluten is still there; it's just in a broken down form that doesn't come through in the test. That is how I understand their argument anyway.

As far as your doctor's comments, I'd be interested to see if you went to 5 other GI specialists if they would say the same thing. I'd bet the ranch they wouldn't.

 

[hazard]

An update on my situation. I've been looking into this for a while now, and have had a long talk with my doctor.

In addition I just brewed a Porter from barley using Brewers Clarex and had the beer testet, and the test found no traces of gluten. (The lowest threshold of the test is 2ppm). Now my doctor says that all the talk about 'damage is being done, even if no symptoms are observed', as I stadet above, is irrelevant. She said that the intestines are always being damaged and continue to repair them self. It's basically by design. So her advice was "drink glutenreduced beer as much as you (me that is) like, as long as you don't have symptoms".

Another thing i suspect is that comercial breweries are sometimes sloppy with their handling of glutenreduced beer. This can result in contamination. I've also had a talk with Nøgne Ø, a brewing company in Norway that uses BC for two of their beers. They feel that BC is very expensive when brewing on a comercial scale, and I fear that a lot of breweries are using just enough enzyme to get below the 20ppm line. When I brew I double the dose and get beer I can drink as much as i want of. (I might not need to, but I'd hade to throw out beer)


A third point is that many people with Non Celiac Gluten Intolerance seem to react to these beers more than others, indicating that they might be affected by something in addition to gluten. [citation needed]

I'm not sure what I'm getting at here, but to sum it up: I'm celiac, I'm brewing with barly + BC and I'm fine. We all have our individual tolerance levels for gluten, so some of us have to keep to glutenfree grains. For me BC is a lifesaver. Or beersaver. My 5 cents..

I was diagnosed with Coeliac Disease just before Christmas. FML!!! I've been trying hard to stick to a gluten free diet and in particular, I have not had a real beer since Christmas Day (had plenty of gluten free beers and in truth I am slowly acclimatising to it). Anyway, I have been doing all grain brewing for the last 6 years and haven't brewed since diagnosis, this really excites me. My local HBS said that he can order in Clarity-Ferm for me, so I am going to brew a batch and do some testing. I don't have access to a lab, so my testing will be on myself. What doseage are you using? Is there anything else you are doing different? I actually bought some flaked millet the other day and have been trying to figure out how to brew with this. Maybe I just try half barley/ half millet in the first instance.

 

[BrokenDog]

3rd kegged batch with clarity ferm and the wife is still seeing no reactions.

 

[celiacsurvivor]

Hi guys,

I posted this in another thread but it will fit here too.

As someone with coeliac disease and a home brewer I stay away from the clarity ferm. I'm also a molecular biologist and follow the scientific literature on this topic closely.

Clarity ferm is an enzyme that breaks up the gliadin proteins (technical term for gluten) into small chunks and as a result of this it appears that the gluten levels have been reduced when you carry out a detection test. These tests rely on the presence of certain portions of the protein that may have been chewed up by the enzyme and so are no longer present.

This is great news for people who want to call their product "gluten free". However, the problem for people with coeliac disease is that they may still be sensitive to the small chunks of the gliadin protein that remain in the beer.

This is one of those hot potato topics as many people will say just try it and see if you feel bad afterwards. However, this is another problem for people with celiac disease as not all of the harm caused in your GI tract is translated into an outward sign - like bloating or stomach aches.

If you are gluten intolerant rather than CD then this might be OK for you, but if you are giving it to someone with CD make sure you tell them that it has been de-glutinised and is not necessarily 100% gluten free.

There is also the problem that hordeins (the gliadin proteins in barley) might not be able to be detected with the standard gluten detection kits that are designed for wheat protein, this means if it is 'gluten free' it will have no gliadin but could have lots of hordein which people with CD have a reaction to.

 

[imp81318]

My wife has a gluten intolerance so I am going to start adding Clarity Ferm to most of my brews from now on so that she can drink them. Currently, I am preparing to do a 1-gallon brew. I know that for a 5 gallon batch you add the entire vial of CF near the end of the boil. How much should I add for 1 gallon?

 

[derek704]

I read somewhere and currently use 1/2 vial for each 1 gal batch.

 

[neumema]

My wife has a gluten intolerance so I am going to start adding Clarity Ferm to most of my brews from now on so that she can drink them. Currently, I am preparing to do a 1-gallon brew. I know that for a 5 gallon batch you add the entire vial of CF near the end of the boil. How much should I add for 1 gallon?

I've used Clarity Ferm several times and I don't believe it should be added during the boil. I could be wrong, but I'm under the impression that it is only to be added when you pitch the yeast. I'm thinking the boil could denature the enzyme.

 

[neumema]

An update on my situation. I've been looking into this for a while now, and have had a long talk with my doctor.

In addition I just brewed a Porter from barley using Brewers Clarex and had the beer testet, and the test found no traces of gluten. (The lowest threshold of the test is 2ppm). Now my doctor says that all the talk about 'damage is being done, even if no symptoms are observed', as I stadet above, is irrelevant. She said that the intestines are always being damaged and continue to repair them self. It's basically by design. So her advice was "drink glutenreduced beer as much as you (me that is) like, as long as you don't have symptoms".

Another thing i suspect is that comercial breweries are sometimes sloppy with their handling of glutenreduced beer. This can result in contamination. I've also had a talk with Nøgne Ø, a brewing company in Norway that uses BC for two of their beers. They feel that BC is very expensive when brewing on a comercial scale, and I fear that a lot of breweries are using just enough enzyme to get below the 20ppm line. When I brew I double the dose and get beer I can drink as much as i want of. (I might not need to, but I'd hade to throw out beer)


A third point is that many people with Non Celiac Gluten Intolerance seem to react to these beers more than others, indicating that they might be affected by something in addition to gluten. [citation needed]

I'm not sure what I'm getting at here, but to sum it up: I'm celiac, I'm brewing with barly + BC and I'm fine. We all have our individual tolerance levels for gluten, so some of us have to keep to glutenfree grains. For me BC is a lifesaver. Or beersaver. My 5 cents..

To your point above (in bold), that's the case for me. I react poorly to beers I've brewed with Clarify Ferm and I'm not a celiac. I haven't yet figured out if that is because I'm allergic to something in addition to gluten or if gluten just happens to be part of what I'm allergic to. I lost 20 pounds when I quit eating gluten, without changing any other dietary habits, so who knows. All I know is that I'm still trying to brew a great beer with non-barley grains.

 

[imp81318]

I've used Clarity Ferm several times and I don't believe it should be added during the boil. I could be wrong, but I'm under the impression that it is only to be added when you pitch the yeast. I'm thinking the boil could denature the enzyme.

I was going off memory having only used it once before. Now that you say it, you might be right that it gets added with the yeast. I'd have to check the instructions when I use it.

 

[derek704]

I've used Clarity Ferm several times and I don't believe it should be added during the boil. I could be wrong, but I'm under the impression that it is only to be added when you pitch the yeast. I'm thinking the boil could denature the enzyme.

Good catch neumema! Yeah, it doesn't get added in until you are at pitching temps.

 

[Corrado]

Hi guys,

I posted this in another thread but it will fit here too.

As someone with coeliac disease and a home brewer I stay away from the clarity ferm. I'm also a molecular biologist and follow the scientific literature on this topic closely.

Clarity ferm is an enzyme that breaks up the gliadin proteins (technical term for gluten) into small chunks and as a result of this it appears that the gluten levels have been reduced when you carry out a detection test.

...

If you are gluten intolerant rather than CD then this might be OK for you, but if you are giving it to someone with CD make sure you tell them that it has been de-glutinised and is not necessarily 100% gluten free.

This is a "real" question vs. a typical forum "OMG UR WRONG!" comment. From my rudimentary understanding of nutritional science (and my lingo is almost certainly not on-par), "proteins" are molecules comprised from the combination a finite selection of Amino Acids. I'm not aware of any amino acids that are unique to wheat/barley proteins. If the intolerance is at the Protein level (vs. intolerance to a specific amino acid), can you elaborate how destroying the complex protein to composite parts results in the same metabolic reaction?

As to the second part, I give full disclosure to anyone with sensitivity or coeliac. I can parrot the White Labs disclosure and relay what I've learned from this thread about "passing the test" vs. being "gluten free." For people on the hyper-sensitive or coeliac end, I usually advise they try a small amount at first, then maybe try more the next time they're over if they don't seem to have a problem.

At the end of the day, my beer is good, but not good enough to become horrifically ill by sampling it. Choose wisely.

 

[celiacsurvivor]

This is a "real" question vs. a typical forum "OMG UR WRONG!" comment. From my rudimentary understanding of nutritional science (and my lingo is almost certainly not on-par), "proteins" are molecules comprised from the combination a finite selection of Amino Acids. I'm not aware of any amino acids that are unique to wheat/barley proteins. If the intolerance is at the Protein level (vs. intolerance to a specific amino acid), can you elaborate how destroying the complex protein to composite parts results in the same metabolic reaction?

That is a pretty good understanding of the makeup of a protein, it is indeed a finite set of amino acids. The intolerance is not necessarily to the entire protein but rather to one or several parts of that protein (this is still being investigated). This is where the problem lies, as the clarity ferm breaks up the protein into small sections not right down to the individual amino acids.
Likewise the test for the presence of gluten relies on certain areas of the protein and not the entire protein.
So lets say the test relies on a sequence of amino acids like this (each letter signifies one amino acid).

aarrpbRNMRRPNNBVywwmnn

But the intolerance is only due to the string of amino acids in capital letters (this is obviously oversimplified but will do for an example).

If the clarity ferm breaks down the string of amino acids inside the lowercase letters but leaves the uppercase letters intact like this bRNMRRPNNBVy, then the test will say there is no gluten present but someone with CD might still have a reaction

As to the second part, I give full disclosure to anyone with sensitivity or coeliac. I can parrot the White Labs disclosure and relay what I've learned from this thread about "passing the test" vs. being "gluten free." For people on the hyper-sensitive or coeliac end, I usually advise they try a small amount at first, then maybe try more the next time they're over if they don't seem to have a problem.

One problem with these tests that I think I have discussed before is that they are designed to test for gliadin which is the major component of wheat gluten. They are not designed to test for hordein which is the major component of barley gluten. As such they are not entirely accurate when testing non-wheat beer products.

It is a good idea to try a small sample first, but there are a lot of examples of people (I'm one) who don't have any outward symptoms of gluten contamination, except that after continued intake I develop anemia and become very tired, at which point I have done a lot of damage to my digestive system.

This is one of the problems with CD, it is a varied disease that is poorly understood. We can give as many anecdotes as we want of people who drink such and such a beer with no symptoms,but at the end of the day every sufferer is different and needs to think of themselves before trying food or drink that potentially has gluten present.

 

[Osedax]

That is a pretty good understanding of the makeup of a protein, it is indeed a finite set of amino acids. The intolerance is not necessarily to the entire protein but rather to one or several parts of that protein (this is still being investigated). This is where the problem lies, as the clarity ferm breaks up the protein into small sections not right down to the individual amino acids.
Likewise the test for the presence of gluten relies on certain areas of the protein and not the entire protein.
So lets say the test relies on a sequence of amino acids like this (each letter signifies one amino acid).

aarrpbRNMRRPNNBVywwmnn

But the intolerance is only due to the string of amino acids in capital letters (this is obviously oversimplified but will do for an example).

If the clarity ferm breaks down the string of amino acids inside the lowercase letters but leaves the uppercase letters intact like this bRNMRRPNNBVy, then the test will say there is no gluten present but someone with CD might still have a reaction



One problem with these tests that I think I have discussed before is that they are designed to test for gliadin which is the major component of wheat gluten. They are not designed to test for hordein which is the major component of barley gluten. As such they are not entirely accurate when testing non-wheat beer products.

It is a good idea to try a small sample first, but there are a lot of examples of people (I'm one) who don't have any outward symptoms of gluten contamination, except that after continued intake I develop anemia and become very tired, at which point I have done a lot of damage to my digestive system.

This is one of the problems with CD, it is a varied disease that is poorly understood. We can give as many anecdotes as we want of people who drink such and such a beer with no symptoms,but at the end of the day every sufferer is different and needs to think of themselves before trying food or drink that potentially has gluten present.

It maybe simple but, it is elegant. I think that is a great way to understand it. Good advice!

 

[Corrado]

This is one of the problems with CD, it is a varied disease that is poorly understood. We can give as many anecdotes as we want of people who drink such and such a beer with no symptoms,but at the end of the day every sufferer is different and needs to think of themselves before trying food or drink that potentially has gluten present.

Thank you for the reply, that helps a lot. For the quoted paragraph, I, too, understand that to be a tremendous challenge for both diagnosis and treatment/mitigation of the condition.

 

[HiImBrian]

Subscribing because there looks to be a lot of big words and thus, knowledge, in this thread. My gf choses to be gluten intolerant and therefore only sticks to ciders or GF beers. If I can reduce the gluen levels in my beer then why the heck not?!

p.s. disregard this post because I haven't read more than a couple posts and idk what I'm talking about.

 

[scaesare]

I have 2 brews fermenting that l'm about ready to transfer to a secondary fermentation vessel for a secondary fermentation. I'd like to try ClarityFerm for these for my wife to try. Anybody see an issue with adding it during the secondary fermentation (which will last at least a week)...?

 

[Osedax]

I have 2 brews fermenting that l'm about ready to transfer to a secondary fermentation vessel for a secondary fermentation. I'd like to try ClarityFerm for these for my wife to try. Anybody see an issue with adding it during the secondary fermentation (which will last at least a week)...?

The alcohol will adversely affect the efficiency of the enzymes in Clarity-ferm. How much I can't say. I just know it will. That is why they say add it directly before the yeast.

Others with more experience with Clarity-ferm might be able to chime in. I recommend caution on this. Don't have your wife drink a sixer the first day.

 

[Corrado]

The alcohol will adversely affect the efficiency of the enzymes in Clarity-ferm. How much I can't say. I just know it will. That is why they say add it directly before the yeast.

Others with more experience with Clarity-ferm might be able to chime in. I recommend caution on this. Don't have your wife drink a sixer the first day.

Ask White Labs. Their customer service is really responsive and courteous. When I was asking about Clarity Ferm, they said it needed to be in with fermentation.

Here's the back & forth with them.

Sarah/White-Labs:
The enzyme needs the entire fermentation to work effectively. The vigorous fermentation helps to disperse the enzyme and give it the appropriate temperature and time to work.

me to Sarah:
Thanks, Sarah. One last (I think!) question. Could I add a vial of Clarity Ferm to an existing 5-gal keg of beer and make it gluten-free or does the enzyme need to be part of the fermentation process?

Sarah Neel to me:
It does need to be part of the fermentation process for that gluten reduction. You might get some reduction if you add it to a keg, but it's hard to say how much.

 

[scaesare]

Thanks for the responses...

 

[noiz2]

I heard one has to be snarky to keep the world in balance so I thought this would do it "This is medicine, not just chemistry." posted by an acupuncturist...

OK sorry.

Maybe there has been some change recently but when I first looked into this earlier this year "Food" could have 10ppm of gluten and still be called GF but beer had to be brewed with 100% GF ingredients to make that claim. All beers using the Clarity-Ferm process to reduce the gluten could only use a gluten reduced label.

So while I can see the angst with FOOD labeling and restaurant menu's errors I don't see why there is angst against Clarity-Ferm. I have never seen anything from White Labs that claimed GF and in fact they were very clear that the product ONLY reduced the gluten.

The reason it got hard to find for awhile was because WL realized that a lot of home brewers were using the product to reduce gluten and so doubled the amount in the tube because they wanted to make sure that it would be more effective in that use.
It's claims are quite well verified which is that CF will reduce the gluten level in a 5 gallon batch of beer to under 10ppm. They do not say that that will make it safe for anyone to drink.

It's a tool. Obviously for some it does the trick, for others not. I have a cousin who is allergic to penicillin. I don't extract from that that it won't work for anybody. I personally have a weird "food poisoning" type reaction to pretty much any mass produced beer AND fast food type pizza. No idea why but craft beer, or home brew OR high quality pizza and I have no problem. But cheap beer and cheap pizza and five hours later I'm violently ill. I noticed the connection and then tested it a couple of times and I was 100% repeatable. Point is there are a ton of frat boys and computer geeks who live on that diet. My body is it's own thing and for me it's a no no.

SO if you have any of the spectrum of gluten related problems you kind of need to find out what your body needs and it's really unlikely that there is a golden bullet that will solve everyone's problems. When I brew for events I toss in the Clarity Ferm because it will help some folks. I then educate as I poor on what gluten free VS gluten reduced means. I don't advocate anyone with serious gluten issues try experimenting without a doctor's advice. But for those with mild issues this might be a step in the right direction.

BTW nobody has noticed any change in the beers I brewed with CF VS the same ones without CF. I don't have any gluten issues so I don't use it all the time.

 

[Safa]

Any comments relating to the following experiment?

http://beerandwinejournal.com/clarity-ferm-i/
http://beerandwinejournal.com/clarity-ferm-ii/
http://beerandwinejournal.com/clarity-ferm-iii/

Additionally, if someone can consume Omission beers without any adverse reactions, then using clarity ferm should be similar at the homebrew level?

 

[Corrado]

Any comments relating to the following experiment?

http://beerandwinejournal.com/clarity-ferm-i/
http://beerandwinejournal.com/clarity-ferm-ii/
http://beerandwinejournal.com/clarity-ferm-iii/

Additionally, if someone can consume Omission beers without any adverse reactions, then using clarity ferm should be similar at the homebrew level?

I just found that study this week as well. I don't know biochemistry well enough to comment on the results, but there are plenty of people here who can (and hopefully will) comment. It's still somewhat a matter of "beating the test" but their testing sounds like the degradation is pretty severe, possibly resulting in a beer that is effectively gluten free.

 

[brujoand]

Any comments relating to the following experiment?

http://beerandwinejournal.com/clarity-ferm-i/
http://beerandwinejournal.com/clarity-ferm-ii/
http://beerandwinejournal.com/clarity-ferm-iii/

Additionally, if someone can consume Omission beers without any adverse reactions, then using clarity ferm should be similar at the homebrew level?

I started brewing with brewers clarex (what calrity ferm is made from) after reading those articles. I have Celiac and I've been drinking beer made from regular barley pretty much every weekend for over a year. I've treated the beer with a double dosage of brewers clarex.

I also did a a new set of tests this summer to see if the beer had triggered an immune response and it had not. Which means, for all intents and purposes this beer is safe for me. No "hidden damage without symptoms". Nothing. Might not be the same for you though.

So if you want to know for sure, try. If it seems to be okay try for en extended period end get your tests done. If those are clean, it doesn't matter what anyone on a forum thinks. You're not being harmed. Well, not by gluten anyway

 

[Safa]

I started brewing with brewers clarex (what calrity ferm is made from) after reading those articles. I have Celiac and I've been drinking beer made from regular barley pretty much every weekend for over a year. I've treated the beer with a double dosage of brewers clarex.

I also did a a new set of tests this summer to see if the beer had triggered an immune response and it had not. Which means, for all intents and purposes this beer is safe for me. No "hidden damage without symptoms". Nothing. Might not be the same for you though.

So if you want to know for sure, try. If it seems to be okay try for en extended period end get your tests done. If those are clean, it doesn't matter what anyone on a forum thinks. You're not being harmed. Well, not by gluten anyway

Thanks Brujoand! Great to hear you are surviving, and I love the outlook!

 

[Corrado]

I started brewing with brewers clarex (what calrity ferm is made from) after reading those articles. I have Celiac and I've been drinking beer made from regular barley pretty much every weekend for over a year. I've treated the beer with a double dosage of brewers clarex.

...

Thanks for the update! I have a friend who's Celiac and she's had my beer in relatively small quantities without effect.

 

[JKoravos]

Just to add my experience here...

My GF is gluten intolerant and for my last 4-5 batches I have been using clarity ferm. The good news is it doesn't affect the flavor of the beer, the bad news is...well, no bad news. Thus far she's been able to drink it without any reaction to the gluten. She did have some type of reaction at one point, but she did not feel it was due to gluten. She thought it might be related to the excess of live yeast present in homebrew compared to many commercial brews. She also seems to do fine with Omission.

My plan is to continue using CF in my beers as I see no adverse effects and it gives my GF a chance to drink beer, even though she is admittedly has trepidations about it. I'll update the thread if anything of note comes up in the process.

 

[scaesare]

So I brewed my last two batches with ClarityFerm as well, and my wife finally got up the courage to test.

She's had 2 full pints thus far with no adverse reactions. She's pretty sensitive to gluten, as even skin contact with gluten products can trigger it with her.

She was a bit hesitant in that she had tried about half a pint of a previous batch I did with ClarityFerm and she had a subsequent minor reaction, but we believe that was something else.

So, from this point forward, I'll do all my brews with it. As previous posters have mentioned, there's no downside it terms of taste/look/feel. As a matter of fact, it was designed to improve clarity by reducing hazing anyway.

$5 for a 5 gallon batch is nothing when it means she can finally have something other than the basic bland beers available commercially...

 

[Safa]

Will be brewing a Vienna Lager this weekend (Revvy's recipe, on this forum) and will be adding Clarity ferm.

Picked up some EZ-Gluten testing kits, will test after I've kegged the batch. If test is negative, the wife will try it and I'll report back.

Wondering if there is any advantage to using a double dose of the stuff, or if it will not help at all?

 

[thaymond]

Will be brewing a Vienna Lager this weekend (Revvy's recipe, on this forum) and will be adding Clarity ferm.

Picked up some EZ-Gluten testing kits, will test after I've kegged the batch. If test is negative, the wife will try it and I'll report back.

Wondering if there is any advantage to using a double dose of the stuff, or if it will not help at all?

One vial is good for the equivalent of 5 gallons, according to the packaging on the vial. I would imagine that it could probably be stretched to 6 or 7 gallons, to create a buffer. If your making a 5 gal batch, you could use the one vial. Any more than that and I would double up.

Anyone try making wheat beers with the clarity ferm and get good results with a gluten intolerance? I was thinking of making a belgian wit or a hefeweizen for my wife. If CF works, I will be good. She's able to drink the blonde I made with no I'll effects, and appreciates that she can finally have a real beer. That sorghum stuff is awful.

 

[masonsjax]

Anyone seen this? I saw it a while back and thought it was interesting.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt...luten-a-carb-in-wheat-may-be-the-real-culprit