Clarity-Ferm, Gluten Testing, and Gluten Sensitivity

[robodeath]

Robodeath, have you tried Corona? Because it passes the same tests that Omission does.

I have not, but am willing to test it... .FOR SCIENCE!
Ugh though, that means I have to drink a Corona

 

[glutarded-chris]

This is a great debate and I think it is one that will go on for some time. My 2-cents worth from experience:

I would caution everyone from simple one and done tests of products. Celiac is a spectrum disorder so not everyone has it in the same way. My brother and I have very different sensitivity levels. I apparently had problems as a child when I was first put on solid food and had major problems until I was 4 when a young doctor took me off of wheat as a test of “intolerance”. According to my mother, the transition was dramatic. My brother seemed to be able to process it until he was older.

My experience is that exposure is cumulative and rarely like a true allergic reaction where you get instant and dramatic sign of exposure. Sure, if you eat a bowl of shredded wheat you are going to get thrown under the bus right away, but most of the time, for those of us that are watching, exposure comes in small doses. Over my lifetime I have incorrectly implicated certain meals or types of food because I had them right before signs showed up. The “poisoning” could have happened several meals or even days before. A little soy sauce in a chicken marinade at a restaurant, cross contamination in fries cooked in oil that also saw breaded products, etc.

I have had Omission and thought that I did fine. Other times I had issues the next day and thought, “is it because I had two, or maybe my body was just more susceptible that day”.

I am in the camp that if it is made of ingredients that have no gluten, then it is good and everything else is to be feared. There are many poisons that your body can handle in very small amounts but once a threshold is reached the exposure signs immerge. For me, gluten is one of those “poisons” and I think the threshold level changes from day to day. I try to keep all gluten away so that when something gets through my screening, I have a good chance of being able to handle it.

I am glad that others experiment with gluten reducing agents, but for now I will just stay away from anything that has ever had gluten.

 

[celiacguy]

I'm going to leave this link here and let people decide if what has been said in this thread about clarity ferm and how it works is true or not.

http://m.ajpgi.physiology.org/content/291/4/G621

The prolyl endoprotease being discussed in that article is clarity ferm/brewers clarex.

Took me a while but I eventually found the information I was looking for when I first came to this forum. In case anyone is wondering what ranges the enzyme are active in it looks like pH down to 2 is okay 4-5 is optimal so wort in pH 5 range is okay because acidity is your main worry here. I got temperature from another source. 50c is the upper limit. Probably best to avoid getting close to that temperature though since wort wouldn't be uniform in temperature and it is better to have less active enzyme than denatured enzyme. White labs indicates 28-30 is optimal in their FAQ section on enzymes but I'm not sure where they get that range from. I would guess your main two worries with using the enzyme are getting it into the wort soon enough before gliadin starts to interact with the poly phenols present in the wort and making sure your temperature is warm enough for the enzyme to work (still haven't found data on activity at lower temperatures). Following white labs instructions of pitching yeast and clarity ferm at the same time is important.



http://www.foodstandards.gov.au/cod...ndo-Protease as a PA AppR SD1 Risk Assess.doc

This is a summary of the application by DSM to use the enzyme in Australia.

 

[edisonbaggins]

Homebrewer of a few years here. Not a scientist... Been having increasing trouble digesting my beer consumption. Too many (the quantity I like) beers and my tummy gets upset and I emit, all night, even when sleeping, so I wake up in a horrible fog, noxious gas.
I've been trying Omission Ales, and they seem to help, so I'm interested in trying some of my own batches with Whitelabs Clarex. My one question is, has it been proven safe for use with homebrew, specifically non-pasteurized beer? Just want to be relatively sure of that before ordering some.

Thank you!

 

[seabass07]

Absolutely safe!

 

[Osedax]

Yup, it actually works really well at clearing beers. They even make a specific "homebrew size" vial. It doesn't do much for gluten but, you can read through the postings for all of that back and forth.

 

[seabass07]

Doesn't do much for gluten? Have you read this thread at all?

 

[BBBF]

Doesn't do much for gluten? Have you read this thread at all?

I have and I wouldn't use the word "Absolutely."

 

[edisonbaggins]

Doesn't do much for gluten? Have you read this thread at all?

I have read the thread, but found it a little hard to know what to think, in some ways. I've done A/B tests with normal beer and with Omission and my stomach does far better with Omission. Sometimes you gotta go w/ your gut...

 

[seabass07]

There is a strong consensus that it get's gluten to safe levels. Lab tests consistently show this. The fact that people still have reactions to beers with gluten removed shows that we don't fully understand the problem. Gluten is not the only thing causing problems!

I only used the word "absolutely" to describe this product's safety in the context of it's use in homebrew. It is absolutely safe in that regard. It's safety hasn't really been questioned, only it's effectiveness as it relates to gluten intolerance.

 

[dirtybear7]

That sounds like a far too reasonable response for this thread subject. Can you add some zingers for effect?


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[seabass07]

Your mother was a hamster and your father smells of elderberries!! Better?

 

[dirtybear7]

Perfect! The Universe is again in balance.


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[edisonbaggins]

Can somebody post a link to a reasonably priced seller? My interwebs search reveals only sold out, discontinued sellers or Amazon wanting $9 for a quantity of 1...

 

[QuercusMax]

LD Carlson carries it, so if your LHBS uses them, you can probably have them special order. I think I paid about 3.50 per vial.

Morebeer sells a 5-pack: http://morebeer.com/products/clarity-ferm-white-labs-5pack.html

 

[edisonbaggins]

Morebeer link lists the product as discontinued and I don't see a way to add any to a cart, so it might mean out of stock as well.
My LHBS is awesome, though they do not carry any White Labs. I can try to see if they'll order.
Will LD Carlson sell directly to a homebrewer?

 

[QuercusMax]

Oh, missed that morebeer doesn't have it right now.

LD won't sell to you. I live half an hour from them, I'd buy my bulk grains direct if I could!

These guys claim to have it in stock: http://www.doverhomebrewsupply.com/...-ferm-10ml-single-dose-for-5-7-gallon/dp/1504

 

[Osedax]

If you are anywhere near the central PA area, my LHBS sells them. I think $2.95 a vial or something like that.

 

[CavemanDom]

Annapolishomebrew.com also carries it.


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[lolznrofls]

Your mother was a hamster and your father smells of elderberries!! Better?

I fart in your general direction!..lmao...got to love a little Monty python!

 

[Clintb]

You might look at what a veterinary has to say at DOGTORJ.com. Also, consider that Casein in milk can cause similar problems...Have fun..Clint

 

[PhillyBrewer]

Another forum member pass the following article on to me which, from what I gathered, meant that any beer can be brewed well within "gluten free" limits using Clarity Ferm. The author goes into details regarding the testing done too.

http://beerandwinejournal.com/clarity-ferm-i
http://beerandwinejournal.com/clarity-ferm-ii
http://beerandwinejournal.com/clarity-ferm-iii

 

[brwmistr]

If you brew for your Wife then try this recipe. Its all GF and uses Millet, which you will have to source in your area. Its fashioned like a Indian Pale Ale
2.7Kg Pale Millet Malt
160 Grams Crystal Malt
160 Grams Munich Malt
1.5 Cups Brown Sugar (in at the first boil)
12g Northdown and 12g EKG at 90min
12g Northdown and 12g EKG at 60min
12g Willamette at 10min
Safale S-04
IBU 78
OG 1.036
ABV 4%

7liters to 45cel Beta rest for 25min stir every ten mins
infuse with 3 liters boiling water for protein rest at 55min for 25mins
decant off the clear liquid containing the enzymes and put into the fridge to protect them.
Infuse mash with 2liters boiling water
heat mash to 70cel and hold for 20min bring to boil last 5mins
cool mash to 70cel add decanted lquid from fridge back in and hold 65cel for 90mins.
lauter at 75cel with sparge water at 5.7pH

Boil as above recipe shows time.
I bottle condition/carb two weeks and serve. 6SRM 78IBU good head medium body nice finish.
It took me 1.5 years to get it this far and now Im going to add more body next batch.
All the best on your batch.

 

[brujoand]

Another forum member pass the following article on to me which, from what I gathered, meant that any beer can be brewed well within "gluten free" limits using Clarity Ferm. The author goes into details regarding the testing done too.



http://beerandwinejournal.com/clarity-ferm-i

http://beerandwinejournal.com/clarity-ferm-ii

http://beerandwinejournal.com/clarity-ferm-iii

What I don't get is how I can know that these "gluten free" levels are safe for _me_. Even with no symptoms damage can be done. It just seems like way to high a risk. But that's me.

 

[lolznrofls]

Use a sorghum based extract kit..no grains means no gluten..buff said

 

[lolznrofls]

Fyi..nephew has Cilliacs I would recommend northern brewers gluten free kit

 

[Corrado]

I can understand issues the CD folks have with GF labeling using Clarity Ferm.

From personal experience with my wife (who is sensitive to something in grain products) is that beer wrecks her stomach, but Omission and all of my ClarityFerm brews don't cause her problems (brewed up to 1.084 with a Russian Imperial Stout so far).

We've done Whole 30 and she's done a few stints of AIP Paleo. I'm mostly Paleo; beer is my exception. I don't appear to have any issues with gluten, there's just nothing particularly nutritious about any gluten-containing products and I keep carbs low in my diet (except beer, which is a few times a week).

I'm quite familiar with the "systemic inflammation" argument and certainly agree that most of us have some degree of that based on how we live our lives. There's also been a steady stream of people in this thread extolling their personal success with drinking Clarity Ferm beer without symptom. Sure, there may be some level of inflammation added (or maybe not), but I fail to see the issue with labeling a product as "under 20ppm gluten" when the current test agrees with that and a majority of people who have issues with gluten do not have issues with the product.

I would not expect someone with severe reactions or CD to be willing to risk a sub-20ppm product, knowing that there was *some* gluten in the product. The few people I know with CD are hyper-sensitive to label reading and make informed decisions before trying something on the edge.

 

[BrokenDog]

My wife was diagnosed as sensitive to gluten although not full CD. So far I've done one batch with clarity ferm and she seemed to be able to drink it without any problems, although that was a limited test since it was only one pint each time over several days before I killed the keg. I have another batch about to go on tap as well as a hefe I will likely brew tomorrow. I'm going to encourage her to drink more of these beers in a shorter period to see if this is indeed a viable option for her.

 

[PhillyBrewer]

What I don't get is how I can know that these "gluten free" levels are safe for _me_. Even with no symptoms damage can be done. It just seems like way to high a risk. But that's me.

That's a fair comment. I have CD and I don't believe I can drink gluten-reduced without issue. I had 2 Omissions once and it seemed like I had some symptoms. I have a newborn so I haven't had a chance to do a lot of testing. As you said, even if you don't have symptoms with gluten-reduced beers, damage may still be done. Definitely something to consider, but at the very least, it's on a person-by-person basis.

 

[brujoand]

That's a fair comment. I have CD and I don't believe I can drink gluten-reduced without issue. I had 2 Omissions once and it seemed like I had some symptoms. I have a newborn so I haven't had a chance to do a lot of testing. As you said, even if you don't have symptoms with gluten-reduced beers, damage may still be done. Definitely something to consider, but at the very least, it's on a person-by-person basis.

An update on my situation. I've been looking into this for a while now, and have had a long talk with my doctor.

In addition I just brewed a Porter from barley using Brewers Clarex and had the beer testet, and the test found no traces of gluten. (The lowest threshold of the test is 2ppm). Now my doctor says that all the talk about 'damage is being done, even if no symptoms are observed', as I stadet above, is irrelevant. She said that the intestines are always being damaged and continue to repair them self. It's basically by design. So her advice was "drink glutenreduced beer as much as you (me that is) like, as long as you don't have symptoms".

Another thing i suspect is that comercial breweries are sometimes sloppy with their handling of glutenreduced beer. This can result in contamination. I've also had a talk with Nøgne Ø, a brewing company in Norway that uses BC for two of their beers. They feel that BC is very expensive when brewing on a comercial scale, and I fear that a lot of breweries are using just enough enzyme to get below the 20ppm line. When I brew I double the dose and get beer I can drink as much as i want of. (I might not need to, but I'd hade to throw out beer)


A third point is that many people with Non Celiac Gluten Intolerance seem to react to these beers more than others, indicating that they might be affected by something in addition to gluten. [citation needed]

I'm not sure what I'm getting at here, but to sum it up: I'm celiac, I'm brewing with barly + BC and I'm fine. We all have our individual tolerance levels for gluten, so some of us have to keep to glutenfree grains. For me BC is a lifesaver. Or beersaver. My 5 cents..