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Clarity-Ferm, Gluten Testing, and Gluten Sensitivity

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igliashon

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UPDATED 7/8/13 TO REFLECT FURTHER RESEARCH

This keeps coming up in discussions here, so I'm hoping I can clarify some things about clarity ferm and "reduced-gluten" beers, such as Omission and Daura.

Background: I'm an acupuncturist in California, where an acupuncture license requires a 4-year education, culminating in a Master's of Science, which covers enough mainstream medicine to allow us to be licensed as primary care providers. We can order and read lab tests, and refer appropriately to specialists. I'm not a doctor, but I know an awful lot about pathophysiology, and I've spent a long, long time surveying the scientific literature on gluten testing, gluten sensitivity, and specifically gluten in beer. I am always continuing my research, and expect that I may need to update this periodically.

So, for starters, let me say that "gluten intolerance" is a tremendous and unfortunate misnomer, as the intact gluten and gluten-like proteins are NOT the culprit in any known pathology included under this umbrella term. Rather, the culprit is prolamine molecules like gliadin, hordein, secalin, and occasionally avenin, and in the case of celiac disease, specific peptide sequences found in those molecules.

Let's break down the variety of pathophysiological mechanisms by which proteins from wheat, barley, rye, etc. can cause gastrointestinal symptoms. Celiac disease is the best-known and most-studied. While it is commonly stated that celiac disease is caused by a reaction to gluten and gluten-like compounds called prolamines, it is ultimately caused by a handful of peptides within those proteins. Specifically it appears to be a handful of "glutamine residues" being acted upon by tissue transglutaminase, an enzyme naturally occuring in the gut, turning them into a compound that provokes an immune response. All prolamines contain both proline and glutamine--that is the source of their name, PROline-glutAMINE. In other words, it's not the whole gluten molecule that is the problem, it's a small component of it. Sources: http://jem.rupress.org/content/195/5/643.abstract
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coeliac_disease#Tissue_transglutaminase

But I'm getting ahead of myself. Celiac disease is but one of a few pathologies responsible for wheat/barley-related gastrointestinal distress. Non-celiac gluten intolerance is another one, which is studied and understood rather poorly compared to celiac disease. One thing is known for certain, and that is that gliadin--a component of gluten--does alter the permeability of intestinal mucosa in certain patients, which can increase exposure to any number of antigens that may be present in the diet (but which would not be problematic were the intestinal barrier functions intact). There are also as-of-yet untested hypotheses that gluten can alter intestinal motility in sensitive patients and generate IBS-like symptoms. Alcohol is known to exacerbate these effects.
Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3480312/

However, there is another pathology--the allergic response--which is an important consideration as well. While gluten and gliadin specifically can trigger allergic responses to wheat, the main protein in barley that seems to trigger the allergic response is known as Lipid Transfer Protein 1--the same protein that is responsible for rendering barley-based beers "heady". If you get a rash following shortly after consuming a barley-based beer, and it goes away within a day, that is a sign of an allergic reaction. The rash associated with celiac disease, dermatitis herpetiformis, does not come and go that quickly, and can take up to two years to resolve after the adoption of a gluten-free diet.
Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11590395
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dermatitis_herpetiformis

Now, what does all this have to do with Brewer's Clarex, aka ClarityFerm? ClarityFerm is what is known as a "proline-specific endoprotease", meaning it is an enzyme that hydrolyzes ("cuts apart") proline specifically, while sparing other proteins. Proline is the main protein implicated in the formation of "chill haze" in beer, and Brewer's Clarex hit the market originally as a way to ensure beer remains clear after sitting in the fridge for a long time. It hydrolyzes hordein by breaking apart the proline into its component peptide groups--break the proline, break the hordein. Simple. So far in my research, nothing I've read suggests that a proline-specific protease will hydrolyse glutamine. HOWEVER, malted barley itself contains an enzyme capable of hydrolyzing glutamine, EP-B2, which has been isolated and marketed as a supplement "Glutenase" to help protect celiac sufferers from inadvertent exposure (see here). Why this enzyme does not naturally render all beer safe for celiacs, I haven't figured out yet; I suspect it has something to do with temperature and/or the solubility of prolamines. But it is the case that compared to unmalted barley flour, flour made with barley malt is SIGNIFICANTLY lower in hordein. This is explained in greater detail in this study. In any case, it seems as though a long protein rest should have comparable effect to using Brewer's Clarex.

Hydrolysis of gliadin, hordein, and secalin can render them undetectable under certain testing methods--namely, the once-popular R5 sandwich ELISA test--and this has caused controversy in the past as studies have demonstrated that this form of ELISA test can give false negatives, thus allowing a "gluten-free" label to go on a harmful product. See this study. The more recent R5 competitive ELISA can detect hydrolyzed fragments of hordein, and specifically the peptide sequences known to trigger an autoimmune response in celiac sufferers. This is the test that Omission uses.

To make their beer, Omission uses a combo of a special cultivar of barley with a very low production of hordein, as well as brewer's clarex, producing the beer on equipment that has been fully sanitized. See here. No mention about centrifuges or anything, so I think we can put to rest the myth that they somehow "centrifuge out" the gluten. In any case, nothing in their methodology explains to me how their beers can pass the R5 competitive ELISA, but apparently they do, as every bottle is tested.

However, It is worth noting that while the R5 competitive ELISA is theoretically sound, it is not to my knowledge clinically verified. That is to say, clinical trials have yet to be done to show that any food which passes the test will be safe for celiacs. The test's threshold is 3 PPM of the relevant peptides, and Omission admits that the safety of their product is not guaranteed (though they happily still label it "gluten-free" in the state of Oregon--a bit hypocritical, if you ask me).

It is also worth noting that on the spectrum of gastroenterological disorders that can be associated with consumption of certain cereal grains, celiac disease is the only one for which it has been decisively proven that the pathogenic antigen lies within the gluten molecule. If you have a barley allergy, then the antigen of interest is NOT in the gluten molecule, and is not going to be affected *AT ALL* by Brewer's Clarex. In fact, that's one of the selling points of Brewer's Clarex, that it does not denature the LTP1 protein responsible for head formation. In the case of non-celiac gluten sensitivity, it has not been established which peptides are the culprit in provoking a response, or if it is in fact the gluten that is responsible at all, since grains contain a host of additional proteins.

So what's the take-away here? When it comes to barley-related gastroenterological disorders, there is much we still don't know. If you have a barley allergy, your problem is not gluten and beers like Omission are decidedly NOT safe. Some people, including myself, continue to have mild-to-moderately-severe reactions to beers like Omission and Daura; whether our symptoms are due to allergy, to a response to some other protein, to psychosomatics, or to some as-yet undiscovered pathology, no one can say. On the other hand, some people can drink Omission without any symptoms at all. Further studies and clinical trials must be conducted, but in the meantime the only way to be 100% safe is to avoid anything made with wheat and barley, regardless of how it is processed. Experiment at your own risk, and do so under a doctor's supervision, as your disease may return asymptomatically at first.
 

BBBF

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I do. I still can't belive that they are allowing beer made with barley to say Gluten Free on the label.
 

DougmanXL

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I dunno if anyone else has seen this, but my LHBS gave me a brochure from White Labs advertising using Brewers Clarex to make gluten free beer from barley/etc... but he knew I had tried that, so he told me to "give them hell" for it, but I havent gotten around to it yet...
 

major67986

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Actually, there is a new test that is available through R-Biopharm that was designed specifically for fermented beverages. It has a limit of testing to 10 ppm, but sounds like it may be testing for the smaller proteins. Here's the link to the literature on their website: http://www.r-biopharm.com/product_s...s_four=&product_range=Food and Feed Analysis&.

I also recently received a brochure from my LHBS on White Labs clarity ferm. Mine did NOT say it was for making gluten free beer, but for making gluten reduced beer. Might want to double check your brochure...

Nonetheless, I recently brewed an all (barley) grain pumpkin ale and put the Clarity Ferm in it. I have a lab here in Boulder, Microbac, that will do this new test for me for $80 on 1 bottle of beer. I plan to take it up there to see what the results are. This lab also does the testing (I believe) for New Planet and one of the distributors here had the tests performed on Greens, Redbridge, Bard's and Brunhaut (Amber & Blonde). All were <10 ppm.

A bit about my background...I was diagnosed with celiac disease about 5 or 6 years ago. I am also on the board of the Gluten Intolerance Group of Colorado (local branch of the national Gluten Intolerance Group). This is the group that offers the "GF" certification in a circle you see on many products these days. I have NO medical training or background, but being celiac myself and supporting our members do my best to make sure I only speak what I know to be the truth because there are a lot of people out there, even IN the medical field, that do not have all of the facts or maybe just don't believe them, and put a lot of INCORRECT information out there.

With that said, I wanted to clarify a few things said about celiac disease and gluten intolerance:
  • There are MANY forms of celiac disease and NOT all show signs of nutrient deficiency.
    [*]Classical or typical celiac disease is the type that presents the GI and nutritional problems. Some in the medical field believe this could be the lowest percentage of those suffering from celiac.
    [*]Nonclassical or atypical CD causes problems primarily outside of the GI and nutritional problems. There is several research articles out there of cases where people were misdiagnosed with MS, Parkinsons, or other neurological diseases, and in fact had CD.
    [*]Silent CD occurs in the absence of any related symptom or nutritional deficiency and are typically found only through screening
    [*]Latent CD is when the blood tests are positive but there is no intestinal damage
  • Celiac Disease is a form of Gluten Intolerance.
  • Non-Celiac Gluten Intolerance does NOT have a single, widely agreed upon definition. But, most leaders in the field refer to this when an individual exposed to gluten, develop symptoms but lack a significant immune response. In other words, they don't feel well but their blood tests are negative or inconclusive and the biopsy shows no damage. Symptoms for the non-celiac gluten intolerant can be just as severe, but there is not enough research in this area to suggest there will be any long term complications if it were to go untreated (as it can in CD).
  • Symptoms for both CD and non-celiac gluten intolerance are a lot more diverse than just GI issues and nutritional deficiencies. Some people experience neurological symptoms such as migraines, brain fog, depression, fatigue and even seizures. Some have dermatitis herpetiformis. Some have experienced reproductive issues.

If you want more information on this topic, the best place (IMO), is to start by reading "Real Life with Celiac Disease" by Melinda Dennis and Daniel Leffler. This book is probably the most up-to-date research and very informative! Another great resource is Dr. Stephen Wangen (aka "The Gluten-Free Doctor"). He is widely known in the community and has several books out as well. Not to plug my group, but our Nat'l website also has a lot of great links/resources: http://www.gluten.net/.

Also, I wanted to point out...I do not believe beers that are brewed with barley (or anything else with gluten) can be labeled "Gluten Free", unlike food products. They can only be labeled gluten free if all of the ingredients used to make it were gluten free. The ones like Omission, Brunhaut and Daura, at least the ones I've seen at the store, have never been labeled this way. Some have a tag hanging on the bottle that state the gluten content (e.g. "<5ppm").

Bottom line is, yes, everyone is different and their tolerances are different. Unfortunately, there is not a test yet to tell an individual what their tolerance is, so that is choice each person has to make for themselves.
 

BBBF

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The last time I checked, Two Brothers had gluten free on their packaging of Prairie Path. It looks like they are using the test you mentioned and it is coming in as less than 5ppm. However, I still feel that it is wrong to label it as gluten free. There should be some sort of separation between natually gluten free and gluten reduced/removed.

http://www.twobrosbrew.com/gluten.htm
 

major67986

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The last time I checked, Two Brothers had gluten free on their packaging of Prairie Path. It looks like they are using the test you mentioned and it is coming in as less than 5ppm. However, I still feel that it is wrong to label it as gluten free. There should be some sort of separation between natually gluten free and gluten reduced/removed.

http://www.twobrosbrew.com/gluten.htm
Here's the ruling from the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau
http://www.ttb.gov/rulings/2012-2.pdf

Not sure how they are enforcing this if at all yet...
 
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igliashon

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Thanks, major! That's definitely some good info. That new test is very exciting, and I'm very curious what the results will show. I wonder if it's the same test that was used in this study?
 

pintail78

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I developed celiacs, diagnosted 5 years ago, I had nutrient deficiency, and small insestine problems. GF works good for me, but I'm not terribly sensitive, example I can drink 1 or 2 coronas with no reaction. For clarity ferm, I use up to 2# of malted barley grain in my recipes with sorghum base. It tests non-detect for gluten with the Elisa (with respect that it may still have smaller proteins in it), and I have no reaction and drink it regularly. This allows me to make almost any style pretty well.

Conclusion: This works for me, but may not for everyone else. CD is still poorly understood, the info I read above is pretty correct with current science.
Background: I am a college level science professor.
 

ChasidicCalvinist

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It seems like I keep repeating myself so putting it here in the sticky works well. FWIW: an absence of a reaction does not imply an absence of damage to your body.

Corona is supposedly gluten free, according to wikipedia. I'll not touch it.
 

major67986

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It seems like I keep repeating myself so putting it here in the sticky works well. FWIW: an absence of a reaction does not imply an absence of damage to your body.

Corona is supposedly gluten free, according to wikipedia. I'll not touch it.
I whole-heartedly agree with this. While there may be no physical, noticeable reaction, there can still be damage to the intestine and inflammation. These can lead to long term health issues.

For example, I have been struggling personally with over all body inflammation (measured by the C-reactive protein blood test). If this remains at high levels long term I'm told by my doctors that it can lead to serious issues like h eart disease.
 

pintail78

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Yes thats true. Its a personal choice. For me I have GI, nutritional, and stomach issues on gluten, they go away completely if I'm off it. If those symptoms/conditions don't come back Im good with that. I have regular osteoporous tests (as I developed it, and after 5 years GF its nearly gone and I;'m skiing again!), and full endocrine suites yearly which are normal. I also have my regular endoscope/upper GI in a few weeks and I will see if theres any inflamation in the small intestine, but so far none of the symptoms/conditions have come back or stopped improving.

Basically, I don't think we understand celiacs disease very well. To say this or that may be a problem (like the occasional corona) its true, but may or may not be significant for each individual. Considering the cross contamination and labeling issues there plenty of things you probably think are GF that are not. That may be the largest source of error out there. As I said its all very personal in terms of your bodies reactions and choices you can make. Most of us with CD are trying to live as normally as we can and not harm our body.
 

pintail78

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One final note, if your having symptoms like a high C-reative protein or things other symptoms associated with gluten, I would suggest consuming no gluten-meaning prepare whole foods all by yourself and consuming nothing prepared. Everyone is different so see if that helps, it may even be something else.

One of the best tests for me was my bone density. I developed osteoporosis from CD, my bone density has steadily improved over the last five years, I get it checked every 18 months. My last test put my hips at normal, and my lower back from osteoporosis to close to normal. My last test showed the most significant improvement of all. That means I am fully absorbing nutrients, in fact other nutrient related symptoms have gone completely away.

I had these wierd nail symptoms (like black nail spikes in my fingernails), and geographic tongue. The geographic tongue went away completely, I had an acupuncturist treat me for it said I had high acidity levels.....that was about 15 years ago......we know a lot more about it now........nope it was CD.

I'm just stoked to be getting healthier and better in so many ways!
 

MrMcPeach

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Lack of reaction probably means something though right? My wife eats a tiny bit of bread by mistake and has a clear reaction. All my beer is made with clarity ferm and she has zero noticeable reaction to it.
 
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igliashon

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Bell curve, man. Bell curve. Your wife should still get checked periodically, even if not reacting. As I said, some people can tolerate beers made with clarity ferm just fine, but others can't. And you can't really know till you try.
 

dirtybear7

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Just wondering if anyone has had further experience with Clarity-Ferm, good or bad? I have a friend with gluten issues. I know she was able to enjoy an Omission beer without adverse reaction. I'd love to make a batch I could share with her. I already know she hates the sorghum beers she has tried.
 
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igliashon

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Well like I said, I can tolerate one or two Omissions without too much trouble, it might be worth the experiment for you (provided you don't mind drinking the results if she can't tolerate it). Go for a lighter-gravity beer with no wheat in the grist, and maybe even try adding some gluten-free adjuncts to spice it up a bit. Nothing wrong with using some certified-GF oats, flaked quinoa, rice/corn, etc. Just make sure to do a proper cereal mash, prior to mashing in with your base malt.
 

major67986

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Sorry, totally forgot to follow up after getting the test results from Microbac. The GF Pumpkin beer I brewed (all barley based) came back <10 ppm. I attached the certificate for any that are curious. I have since brewed 3 or 4 more all barley grain beers with Clarity Ferm. Though, I don't get these tested...

With that said, like igliashon, you may only be able to tolerate one or two without feeling any symptoms. I don't have notable reactions to gluten, so it is hard to say how I'm doing with the beers, but I try to limit my consumption of these to a couple at a time. The test cannot detect below 10 ppm, so there can still be gluten in the beer. So, the more you have, the more potential gluten you are ingesting. Even if its one or two every day...

View attachment Microbac GF CERTIFICATE_public.pdf
 

celiacsurvivor

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Although oats can be classified as gluten free they still have a protein called avenin which is very similar to wheat gluten and can cause a reaction in some celiac sufferers.
GF oats are oats that have been processed in an environment without wheat, barley or rye, they have not had their normal avenin protein removed.
 

dirtybear7

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So, I made an IPA using Clarity-Ferm. My friend with gluten issues was able to drink it without a reaction. I know a lack of reaction is not an absence of adverse effects, but I'm happy she was able to enjoy. I did tell her to drink half of one and wait a while. She drank one, waited then drank to other two (12oz bottles). Here is the recipe for reference:

12. lb Maris Otter
0.5 lb White Wheat
0.5 lb Cara-Pils
0.75 lb C15
0.5oz Magnum (60min)
1.0oz Mosaic (15min)
1.0oz Mosaic (5min)
1.0oz Mosaic dry-hopped
Whirfloc
Wyeast Nutrient
Clarity-Ferm (added at yeast pitch)
WLP001
 

tommyguner03

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have you heard of anyone with a gluten sensitivity that breaks out in acne?? well thats me.. i break out in crazy acne not your little white heads.. i get the big boilers and boy do they hurt. its a weird start cause at first i itch like its hives coming threw and bam next day or two i get a huge boiler.. i am glad i finally listened to co workers, friends that it could be a gluten issue. who would of thought?? i was tested last year and sure enough it came up .. i dont know much on this cause what came up was bakers yeast and brewers yeast?? although i have no issues with dry yeast? anyone know of this issue?
and sorry for venting on this .. i have had one to many
 

BrewCanuck

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Tommyguner03,

Did you get a diagnosis? Sounds like Dermatitis Herpetaformis, which is what I have. When I consume gluten I get blisters filled with a clear fluid on my feet, hands, lower back, knees, elbows and face. Before the blisters break, I almost want to use sandpaper on my skin, after its not as bad but any heat applied to the area (ie shower) hurts like hell.

The nice part about it is there is a drug that helps like magic. Dapsone. Minimal side effects (fatigue due to lower hemoglobin production) but the itching is gone and no new blisters within about 24 hours.

Overall its still better to try living gluten free, the dapsone just lets you manage when you really want to try a beer & soft pretzel kind of thing.
 

tommyguner03

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not a full diagnosis just blood work, next step is to get diagnosed. i get the acne on face, neck, and mostly on back. my back used to covered and i was always accused of taking steroids back in high school. I'll have to check out Dapsone. thanks.
 

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I have celiac disease and made a Honey Cream Ale extract brew with barley and Clarity Ferm. I"ve been drinking one or two every day for the past few weeks and have no reactions! I have a Chocolate Milk Stout going now, hope it works the same!
 

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nice write up, I have not gotten all the way through but I must point out that proline is an amino acid not a protein. Proline is found in almost every protein on earth. Clarity-Ferm hydrolizes proteins at the proline amino acid and likely does this to all proteins in the mash
 

robodeath

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I've made 3 batches and no ill effects from them:
Honey Cream Ale
Chocolate Milk Stout
Oatmeal Cookie Brown Ale
 
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igliashon

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nice write up, I have not gotten all the way through but I must point out that proline is an amino acid not a protein. Proline is found in almost every protein on earth. Clarity-Ferm hydrolizes proteins at the proline amino acid and likely does this to all proteins in the mash
Oh good, are you a chemist? Maybe you can explain the process to me in greater detail, because I don't quite have the background to make complete sense of it all. Does the proline itself get broken down (and if so, into what?), or does the enzyme just sever the bonds between proline and any adjacent amino acids? I'm really trying to get all the facts straight on this, but without a food science degree, it's difficult.
 

jbay76

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I just want to make sure everyone knows that Proline is not a protein, its an amino acid. It can be combined with other amino acids to form a protein but this statement from igliashon "Proline is the main protein implicated..." i simply not true. I' sure it was a type and he/she meant to say the proline rich peptide, but even if he/she did not mean to write it, the truth is the truth. Proline is an amino acid, not a protein
 

ekjohns

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I just want to make sure everyone knows that Proline is not a protein, its an amino acid. It can be combined with other amino acids to form a protein but this statement from igliashon "Proline is the main protein implicated..." i simply not true. I' sure it was a type and he/she meant to say the proline rich peptide, but even if he/she did not mean to write it, the truth is the truth. Proline is an amino acid, not a protein
exactly, I said the same thing two posts up. From my reading there are peptides (possibly just one) that causes the disease. Clarity-Ferm seems to degrade those peptides this preventing the reaction
 
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I have been using clarity ferm for about the last 6 months. The beers have turned out fine. My IIPA brewed with it even won a few first places. I haven't noticed the beers to be any clearer though. I don't have a gluten allergy, but just trying to eliminate it as I have gone Paleo.
 

jbay76

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Sorry EKJohns, when I first read the first posting I had to write the clarification, so forgive me for not seeing yours and "liking" it. I'll go back and "like" yours though. And yes, the antigenic response is a result of the proline rich peptides that results from our enzymatic breakdown of gliadin and hordien. The science shows that the endoprotease in clarity ferm breaks these proline rich peptides into smaller peptide fragments that do not bind to our intestinal epithelium, "essentially" rendering it harmless. Interestingly enough, both barley and wheat have the same percentage of proline, ~17% of the protein content. Cheers
 

Ste1ny

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I apologize if this has already been answered, however I've been searching and haven't really found a solid answer.

Has anyone who has used Clarity Ferm noticed any difference in taste at all? I know that it's advertised to not mess with the taste at all, but before attempting to use, I'm trying to research and find info from people with experience. So far I haven't found anyone who has said there was any noticeable difference in the final taste of the brew.

Thansk
 

dirtybear7

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Beer tasted great. It seemed even better because it was super clear. Don't hesitate to use it. I don't have gluten issues. I just like clear beer sometimes.
 
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igliashon

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Sorry EKJohns, when I first read the first posting I had to write the clarification, so forgive me for not seeing yours and "liking" it. I'll go back and "like" yours though. And yes, the antigenic response is a result of the proline rich peptides that results from our enzymatic breakdown of gliadin and hordien. The science shows that the endoprotease in clarity ferm breaks these proline rich peptides into smaller peptide fragments that do not bind to our intestinal epithelium, "essentially" rendering it harmless. Interestingly enough, both barley and wheat have the same percentage of proline, ~17% of the protein content. Cheers
Well, "the science" at this point is all hypothetical in terms of how it will impact those with celiac disease. The 20 ppm threshold is not a magic number, and even in the initial (small sample size and weak design) study that led to the promotion of that threshold, there were subjects who reacted at less than 10 ppm. In fact, a review of the literature leads to the strong conclusion that that 20 ppm number is not based on good science, because there is just very little research out there trying to replicate the results of the first study. And, I might add, the studies are only focused on biopsy-positive celiac patients; there are other forms of gluten intolerance that may operate on different pathophysiological mechanisms, which are still being investigated.

Furthermore, while clarex-treated beers can pass the R5 competitive ELISA, the hypothesis that that makes them safe for celiacs has not actually been tested. For these beers to truly be considered safe, they should be subject to the same FDA standards as any product making a health claim. Currently I am not aware of *any* in vivo studies demonstrating the safety of these beers in randomized double-blind controlled trials.

I am aware of roughly equal amounts of anecdotal evidence supporting both sides (that they do or that they don't cause a reaction), which is not surprising considering it is a known fact that celiac sufferers vary in sensitivity and severity of reaction symptoms, and also that gluten intolerance is significantly over-diagnosed in the general population (mostly due to mistake self-diagnoses or over-zealous alternative medicine practitioners and fad-diet health gurus). The placebo and nocebo effects absolutely SHOULD NOT be discounted!

I would do well to let my argument rest on the above alone, I think, rather than my feeble layman's attempt at deciphering the food chemistry of brewing with Clarex.
 

spennyj

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I whole-heartedly agree with this. While there may be no physical, noticeable reaction, there can still be damage to the intestine and inflammation. These can lead to long term health issues.

For example, I have been struggling personally with over all body inflammation (measured by the C-reactive protein blood test). If this remains at high levels long term I'm told by my doctors that it can lead to serious issues like h eart disease.
Yeah, but if you are not having visable/noticable physical reactions to a product. What makes you think that product is contributing to your inflammation or blood test at all?

Seems to me that they would almost always go hand in hand. If not always. Couldn't the tests be turning up other products or issues?

I ask because Corona seems to have no effect on me. While usually the smallest amount of gluten absolutely destroys me. Even Omission has a really bad effect on me.

Seems to me that there may be more than 1 or 2 slightly different disorders in play with this. Along with a lot of self diagnosing and flat out misdiagnosing by our incompetent medical professionals. Intestinal overgrowth may be a disorder that many are calling celiac or gluten intolerance ....and may in fact have slightly different causes or treatments but similar symptoms.
 

CavemanDom

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So I was wandering around the Internet for various gf beer recipes and came across a rather large recipe database, with a variety of amphibian in their name. What I noticed is A LOT of the recipes labeled as GF by their OPs either used clarity ferm or a liquid yeast. This particular site doesn't have a forum, just comments per recipe. Does anyone else participate over there? Is anyone reading this one of the OPs I am side-eyeing? On the other hand, some of the recipes looked like they would be pretty good and safe, aside from the 1# of 2-row...etc

I noticed my LHBS website has fine print on clarity ferm stating it is not 100% gluten removal and not for those with celiac... So that's a comfort, although last time I was in there when someone suggested it, I got looked at like I was crazy.
 

ICWiener

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Great thread. I'm not GF, but the wife is, and she would straight up shank someone for a decent GF dry stout. I'm going to try Clarity Ferm as soon as my LHBS places their next White Labs order.
 
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