citra single hop ipa. too sweet,

[gstolas]

So I've brewed about 3-4 years now. Learned a lot on the way , trial and error. I have brewed successful batches.. as well as "meh" batches. My key focus are IPAs.

I did an all citra IPA. I'm sure I'm one of thousands to attempt a zombie clone. Anyhow I increases the IBUs aside from the grain bill. For 3 gallons I did 0.7 oz at each 60 min, 15, 5, and 0 min. I dryhopped 2.5 for about a week. Keep in mind its a 3 gal.

After3.5 weeks I had it kegged and carbed and took a sneak peak taste. It was ridiculously sweet and "fresh" . I suspected the citra being too "green". I didn't abuse any caramel malts.....0.2 oz of most of the specialty malts. Although I did mash pretty damn low , not as intended since it was a cold day in Feb .

I'm having one now. It seemed to improve but the lingering fruity overload is still hanging around. Just not like sweet lemons like before. I need to know why this is so. I love citra. And plan on trying more citra beers in the future .

Is 6-7 weeks from brewday REALLY necessary to mellow out , or what. The beer is also a bit thin lacking body due to low mash. Just my error at the time.

Please any insight on late-hopping, dry hopping, or early citra hopping that can cause such "candy like " flavors. Not exactly part of the plan. But its still bitter and drinkable. I just want to step my game up on American IPAs

 

[snow16]

I'm a little confused because you seem to contradict yourself. You say the beer is too sweet, yet you're worried because you mashed too low and the beer is 'a bit thin an lacking in body', which to me is quite the opposite of sweet. Also, be careful - 'fruity' and 'sweet' are not the same thing at all. I think someone could help you with more information. What was your SG, FG, etc...

What yeast? What temperature?

 

[adamdillabo]

What was the OG and FG? I just bottled a similar beer. All citra bit of magnum for bittering. I tried to get my wife to sample what was left in the bucket. She said it smelled like rotting chicken. So you got that going for you.

 

[tgmartin000]

I've found all Citra beers can have a bit of sweetness. ... not sure if it's the hops or the fermentation though.

 

[cantrell00]

I've found all Citra beers can have a bit of sweetness. ... not sure if it's the hops or the fermentation though.

the hops in my experience..

 

[gstolas]

I've found all Citra beers can have a bit of sweetness. ... not sure if it's the hops or the fermentation though.

It was London ESB. I do know that higher mash temps tend to bring out more residual sweetness. Although I'm suspecting its not the malt. I didn't mean to contradict anything . Just lookin for advice from anyone who can explain any relation at all to citra resulting in a candy like way. My original gravity was 1.071 . As I kegged this batch I didn't check the final gravity , I simply forgot I usually don't forget. But I'm sure its in the low since more fermentables were there from the low mash.
I made a good starter for it as well on a stirplate. I havent had yeast related problems often. So this seems like a hop issue. Maybe I'm crazy. It's gotten better is what I am trying to get at. DO CITRA HOPS BRING OUT A SWEET-LIKE flavor , if used improperly in the hop schedule.

Constructive criticism is welcome.

 

[gstolas]

My friends told me it had too much of something. None of them brew , nor understand brewing. But I like to hear the average craft beer drinker evaluating my final product. Maybe if it had more body , i don't really know . I've done better IPAs . This one just struck me differently

 

[gstolas]

I brewed it in early February. At 3.5 weeks it was so sweet in a hoppy way, it was like juice ..... Considering the body I got no mouthfeel. But again that was my misjudgement . As weeks went by I began to accept it more.

 

[gstolas]

Let's say I just went with "fruity" as far as what you said. Ok so , its overly fruity then. Was less desirable 3 weeks young as it was today. Could it be possible its too fresh?

I was always under the impression "DRINK FRESH" IPAs. But on a homebrew level I hear 6 weeks or so they tend to mellow to a more desirable flavor. Which is kind of where I am I suppose. I'm happier with it now but I just wated some input. Brewing and improvement is constantly on my mind ....at home, at work. I appreciate anything anyone has to add. Excuse my noobness if it is there

 

[snow16]

If I came across as a jerk I didn't mean it like at all. I wasn't trying to criticize you or your process. I simply meant that with more information, people would be able to help you more.

 

[gstolas]

No worries. I didn't take it that way. This is my first ever thread. After reading many and many threads to teach myself the mistakes and solutions to homebrewing over the years, I found a time to ask a question at last. I've experienced "too fresh" hop bombs before, of course its personal preference., but I just wondered if this was a case of letting it sit another week or so. I recently did a black IPA that was just ok at 4 weeks. And drastically tasted better after 6. I did a session IPA that didn't need any time to mature, and began to lack flavor as early weeks went by. This batch confused me. The only other time however, I did use London ESB the final gravity was 1.022 as expected on a Dipa . I wouldnt know in this case , unless I filled a samples worth now from the keg and took a reading as it warmed.

 

[gstolas]

 

[gstolas]

I've found all Citra beers can have a bit of sweetness. ... not sure if it's the hops or the fermentation though.

I fermented at 66-67. My basement stays around that this time of year. I don't think its esters from high temp ferment. I'm going to sample it and see if it mellows further. It has so far. Caught me off guard tho . Overly fruity in the beginning

 

[aprichman]

You are using the wrong yeast for IPAs. London ESB attenuates to 69% on average. Your IPA tastes sweet because the yeast leaves a good deal of residual sugars behind. For IPAs use Wyeast 1056, 1187, 1272, or 1450.

 

[cantrell00]

Or safale US05, white labs 001 & 007.

 

[jbaysurfer]

You didn't get a FG but you say it's too "sweet" but you assume it finished out dry because you mashed low?

I'd say your assumption is wrong. That OG reading is critical to troubleshooting your problem. Citra does have a "fruity/sweet" aroma to it, but if it tastes sweet, it's sugar that's making that happen. Like all other hops, Citra lends bitterness, not sweetness to the final flavor.

 

[PrinceOfThePoint]

To diagnose an overly sweet brew it's essential to have the FG. I would take a sample and shake it until it's flat and measure the gravity. It's probably the yeast you used.

Like someone mentioned, hop oils can taste very fruity, especially something like Citra, but they do not contain any sugar, therefore they can only give the impression of sweetness. Furthermore, you are dead on about "drink IPA fresh," but the first few weeks the beer is kegged it can definitely "change" day to day. My beers taste delicious when they are freshly carbonated, but they reach peak awesomeness in 1-2 weeks at serving pressure.

 

[gstolas]

To diagnose an overly sweet brew it's essential to have the FG. I would take a sample and shake it until it's flat and measure the gravity. It's probably the yeast you used.

Like someone mentioned, hop oils can taste very fruity, especially something like Citra, but they do not contain any sugar, therefore they can only give the impression of sweetness. Furthermore, you are dead on about "drink IPA fresh," but the first few weeks the beer is kegged it can definitely "change" day to day. My beers taste delicious when they are freshly carbonated, but they reach peak awesomeness in 1-2 weeks at serving pressure.

Thanks a lot guys. I Will check on that. And the yeast choice coincidentally gave me a similar result before but not as intense. 1056 is my go-to actually. I guess I was experimenting. Appreciate the comments

 

[gstolas]

You didn't get a FG but you say it's too "sweet" but you assume it finished out dry because you mashed low?

I'd say your assumption is wrong. That OG reading is critical to troubleshooting your problem. Citra does have a "fruity/sweet" aroma to it, but if it tastes sweet, it's sugar that's making that happen. Like all other hops, Citra lends bitterness, not sweetness to the final flavor.

Thank you

 

[aprichman]

BTW here's what Wyeast says about London ESB:

"A very good cask conditioned ale strain, this extremely flocculant yeast produces distinctly malty beers. Attenuation levels are typically less than most other yeast strains which results in a slightly sweeter finish. Ales produced with this strain tend to be fruity, increasingly so with higher fermentation temperatures of 70-74°F (21-23° C). A thorough diacetyl rest is recommended after fermentation is complete."

Sounds like the yeast did it's job

 

[Bowtiebrewery]

You can still get a FG By pulling a sample and measuring with a hydrometer... If you started at 1.071 and lets say you finish at 1.022 that's not enough for any style you were going for (ESB or IPA)

Mashing at a lower temperature does not always mean that you will have a thinner tasting beer, or perceived mouthfeel, nor does it guarantee fermentability of the wort.

My guess is you had too many unfermentables left over and or you had an aeration/yeast issue.

I made a stronger than usual 1.066 ESB and mashed high around 156 on it, thought I aerated and used enough S-04 . I ended up with a sweet, fruity, and malty beer that was just not finished enough at 1.020.

Start with getting a Final gravity reading. See where you ended up. I live under the rule if I don't like it I don't drink it. It sucks, but you learn from your mistakes.

 

[cantrell00]

You can still get a FG By pulling a sample and measuring with a hydrometer... If you started at 1.071 and lets say you finish at 1.022 that's not enough for any style you were going for (ESB or IPA)

Mashing at a lower temperature does not always mean that you will have a thinner tasting beer, or perceived mouthfeel, nor does it guarantee fermentability of the wort.

My guess is you had too many unfermentables left over and or you had an aeration/yeast issue.

I made a stronger than usual 1.066 ESB and mashed high around 156 on it, thought I aerated and used enough S-04 . I ended up with a sweet, fruity, and malty beer that was just not finished enough at 1.020.

Start with getting a Final gravity reading. See where you ended up. I live under the rule if I don't like it I don't drink it. It sucks, but you learn from your mistakes.

This is certainly true for most IPA's with the exception of Celebration. It is mashed really high & while it may not finish at 1.022 - it is in that neighborhood.

A finishing gravity of 1.018-1.022 is not necessarily the ruin of an IPA.. There are a lot of other variables involved.

Celebration is 20% crystal malt too... There are a variety of ways to skin a cat.

 

[jbaysurfer]

^ it's very important to off gas your sample completely. I'd shake it up and leave it out overnight personally. Otherwise it'll give you an artificially high reading from the c02 in suspension.

 

[Yooper]

Sometimes a 'too sweet' beer, especially an IPA is underbittered. What was the AAUs of your citra hops, or did you calculate the IBUs with some brewing software?

For an OG of 1.070 or so, I'd want at least 60 IBUs.

Maybe it's a combination of underbittering (.7 oz doesn't seem like much, but it really depends on the AAUs of the hops), the rest of the recipe (didn't see that listed) and the yeast strain?

 

[gstolas]

You can still get a FG By pulling a sample and measuring with a hydrometer... If you started at 1.071 and lets say you finish at 1.022 that's not enough for any style you were going for (ESB or IPA)

Mashing at a lower temperature does not always mean that you will have a thinner tasting beer, or perceived mouthfeel, nor does it guarantee fermentability of the wort.

My guess is you had too many unfermentables left over and or you had an aeration/yeast issue.

I made a stronger than usual 1.066 ESB and mashed high around 156 on it, thought I aerated and used enough S-04 . I ended up with a sweet, fruity, and malty beer that was just not finished enough at 1.020.

Start with getting a Final gravity reading. See where you ended up. I live under the rule if I don't like it I don't drink it. It sucks, but you learn from your mistakes.

I will do that. Ya live ya learn. I actually use pure oxygen prior to pitching. I am just not familiar with the ESB strain or its final properties. Now I know. Feel like a noob .
Il most likely stick to my 1056 go-to for my typical preference IPAs .

 

[gstolas]

BTW here's what Wyeast says about London ESB:

"A very good cask conditioned ale strain, this extremely flocculant yeast produces distinctly malty beers. Attenuation levels are typically less than most other yeast strains which results in a slightly sweeter finish. Ales produced with this strain tend to be fruity, increasingly so with higher fermentation temperatures of 70-74°F (21-23° C). A thorough diacetyl rest is recommended after fermentation is complete."

Sounds like the yeast did it's job

This pretty much sums up my results. I should have known. My temps were ok but I only used this strain twice. Both for a 3f clone coincidentally , and ended up with an unpleasant sweetness , felt it interfered with what I was looking for in hop presence. Especially citra. Used cascade and simcoe before

 

[gstolas]

^ it's very important to off gas your sample completely. I'd shake it up and leave it out overnight personally. Otherwise it'll give you an artificially high reading from the c02 in suspension.

Evaluate more on this. I'm not sure I get what its all about . I usually cool down as quick as I can , after a good hop stand or within the timely cool down depending on my seasonal conditions. And drop my oxygen stone in for a solid min. And pitch

 

[gstolas]

Evaluate more on this. I'm not sure I get what its all about . I usually cool down as quick as I can , after a good hop stand or within the timely cool down depending on my seasonal conditions. And drop my oxygen stone in for a solid min. And pitch

Nevermind. The sample. I missed that. Got it sitting overnight like u said already. In case cold or gas interfered

 

[gstolas]

Sometimes a 'too sweet' beer, especially an IPA is underbittered. What was the AAUs of your citra hops, or did you calculate the IBUs with some brewing software?

For an OG of 1.070 or so, I'd want at least 60 IBUs.

Maybe it's a combination of underbittering (.7 oz doesn't seem like much, but it really depends on the AAUs of the hops), the rest of the recipe (didn't see that listed) and the yeast strain?

I typically use brewtoad. I used a zombie dust grain bill and tried to up the IBUS. They were pretty even additions. Just at diff times. 60, 15. 10, 5 , and 0. All 0.7 oz. The IBUs said near the 90s but I don't really feel that though with what's combined

 

[aprichman]

Nevermind. The sample. I missed that. Got it sitting overnight like u said already. In case cold or gas interfered

I would put a piece of foil with a few pinholes over your beer to minimize evaporation which would skew your FG reading.