Cider Yeast Selection

[CatsCradle]

I was recently reading about how to make mead and read that some people use go-Ferm in conjunction with their dry yeast and additionally add Fermaid k and dap nutrients during specific points in the fermentation process. Is any of this required or recommended for cider?

 

[z-bob]

I was recently reading about how to make mead and read that some people use go-Ferm in conjunction with their dry yeast and additionally add Fermaid k and dap nutrients during specific points in the fermentation process. Is any of this required or recommended for cider?

Not required unless you are adding a ton of sugar. I usually add a little bit of nutrients (Fermax) and not much sugar at all, and it works well. The last batch I made, I didn't add any sugar and it turned out good too, just a little lower ABV.

 

[CatsCradle]

Not required unless you are adding a ton of sugar. I usually add a little bit of nutrients (Fermax) and not much sugar at all, and it works well. The last batch I made, I didn't add any sugar and it turned out good too, just a little lower ABV.

Ok sounds good! Another question I had was about Camden tablets. I’ve read that if someone were to use unpasteurized apple juice it’s a good idea to throw in a campden tablet prior to fermentation to kill wild/ unwanted yeast strains. I’ve also heard that campden tablets are used to backsweeten post fermentation. If I wanted to do a experimental 1 gal batch that was backsweetened would I put two tablets in one prior to fermentation then one post fermentation?

 

[doublejef]

Great thread, thanks for repoped it.
Sadly I Don't see much feedback about Lallemand M2 which seems to be a must try. Quite hard to find around here so if someone tasted it I would really appreciate to know if it worth to did until I get it.

 

[z-bob]

I just started some cider yesterday using Voss kveik yeast. I transferred a beer from a bucket to a carboy, ladled the trub into a mason jar and put it in the fridge, then poured 3 gallons of apple juice in the dirty bucket. It was visibly fermenting within 2 hours. (then I added a teaspoon of yeast nutrient, half a pound of sugar, and a gallon of cheap cranberry juice cocktail after checking to make sure it doesnt contain sorbate or benzoate) Our house is pretty hot, so it could be ready to bottle in a week or two. I'll move it to a carboy as soon as the foam dies down and the yeast starts to settle.

 

[AzOr]

Great thread, thanks for repoped it.
Sadly I Don't see much feedback about Lallemand M2 which seems to be a must try. Quite hard to find around here so if someone tasted it I would really appreciate to know if it worth to did until I get it.

I've been using Mangrove Jack's M2 with great results. I don't know if it is the same strain as you mentioned but I have heard it is. Maybe someone can chime in who knows.
MJ M2 has been my go to for 3 or 4 years and I love it. It produces a clean cider and the "appleness" isn't stripped away like other yeasts.

 

[AzOr]

I just started some cider yesterday using Voss kveik yeast. I transferred a beer from a bucket to a carboy, ladled the trub into a mason jar and put it in the fridge, then poured 3 gallons of apple juice in the dirty bucket. It was visibly fermenting within 2 hours. (then I added a teaspoon of yeast nutrient, half a pound of sugar, and a gallon of cheap cranberry juice cocktail after checking to make sure it doesnt contain sorbate or benzoate) Our house is pretty hot, so it could be ready to bottle in a week or two. I'll move it to a carboy as soon as the foam dies down and the yeast starts to settle.

Please keep us posted. I've been curious about kveik for both beer and cider. I think I'm the only beer brewer on this forum who hasn't tried a kveik strain yet.

Last season was my first for pressing my own apples and I primarily used Mangrove Jack's but I also experimented with Imperial Napoleon. So far I'm really digging this yeast. Within about two weeks it had dropped fairly clear and the taste was delicious. I noticed it had a more pronounced apple aroma and a little tropicallness to the taste. Also, it had a very complex finish. It's almost as if you put a drop of vinegar in a pint of cider. I'm pretty sure it wasn't infected but it did add to they complexity. I'll definitely be fermenting with it again this season.

In my experience with other yeasts, cider is very flabby and bland the first few months. Not with Napoleon. If I'm ever rushed to pump out a batch of cider in a few weeks, this would be my choice.

 

[z-bob]

I have used kveik yeast before in cider, and I don't remember much about it other than it worked well and was fast. I tend to remember what works and what doesn't, but don't remember things like "tasting notes" because I'm too stupid to write that stuff down. I always think I will remember it, but I don't

I had a carboy full of cider that should have been bottled in March (Cote des Blanc yeast, I *think*) but I was stuck out of state for a couple of months because covid; I finally bottled it last week. I didn't think it would have enough yeast left to carbonate, so I put a teaspoon of kveik trub in a half gallon of juice, and put it on a stirplate for a couple of days, with an airlock to keep it from getting too oxidized. The stirplate was just to keep the yeast in suspension. It quickly looked like cloudy orange juice from all the yeast. I turned it off for a few hours to settle, then poured the liquid into my cider and bottled it. It was carbonated in 2 days and I'm drinking it now. There is a lot of yeast in the bottles because that was way too much yeast, but they are plastic bottles and the yeast sticks to the plastic; it's easy to get a clean pour. (it might stick to glass too, I don't know.)

 

[doublejef]

I've been using Mangrove Jack's M2 with great results. I don't know if it is the same strain as you mentioned but I have heard it is. Maybe someone can chime in who knows.
MJ M2 has been my go to for 3 or 4 years and I love it. It produces a clean cider and the "appleness" isn't stripped away like other yeasts.

I made a quick search but It doesn't seems to be the same yeast.
M02 Mangrove Jack :
This cider yeast is a high ester-producing strain, imparting wonderful flavour depth, revealing the full fruit potential of the juice. Ciders fermented using this strain are exceptionally crisp, flavoursome and refreshing in taste. This highly robust yeast has good fructose assimilation and is capable of fermenting under challenging conditions and over a wide temperature range.


M2 Lallemand Enoferm :
Enoferm M2™ was isolated in Stellenbosch, South Africa and is from the Massey University culture collection (New Zealand), Culture No. M182. Neutral to low aroma production and does not dominate varietal character.
A general purpose yeast for both red and white wines. In white wines it can contribute significant mouthfeel, not attributed to glycerol production. R&D benchmarking showed that, Enoferm M2™ had a moderate production of succinic acid. However, winery feedback has revealed that it can, under certain conditions (currently unknown), produce high levels of succinic acid.

Sadly, tt seems to be nearly impossible to buy M2 from Lallemand in Central Europe.
FWIW, I already tryed M02 MJ but it was dry as hell and not very good. Crazy to see how different things can turn out depending of the people and the apples.

 

[wasully]

I was recently reading about how to make mead and read that some people use go-Ferm in conjunction with their dry yeast and additionally add Fermaid k and dap nutrients during specific points in the fermentation process. Is any of this required or recommended for cider?

Honey does not really contain any nutrients for the yeast. So mead will ferment a lot faster/healthier with some added nutrients. Considering just about every cider will ferment dry naturally, even low nutrient apples have enough nutrient. That doesn't necessarily mean it wouldn't benefit from more, but it's also a widely reported rule of thumb that low nutrient, slow fermenting apples make the best cider.

Conversely, I have read that fermaid O(I think it was, maybe K) will recude the rhino farts some ciders give off.

Between the cost of honey and aging time, I feel like mead people have explored nutrients a lot more than other fermenting disciplines because dumping a batch hurts more. So, at least on the homebrew scale, they're the most devoted to babying the yeast for a consistently favorable product. Especially since adding nutrients is also supposed to reduce aging time.

 

[dmtaylor]

Many cider makers recommend and swear by nutrient additions.

That being said, I think my ciders are the best around and I NEVER use nutrient. The sulfur "rhino farts" that everybody talks about goes away on its own with enough age, a couple months or less. Nutrient isn't helping with that, it happens by itself.

 

[Nick Z]

I was able to snag some new yeasts which I am going to try and I can post the results here if people like. Lallemand M2 and Renaissance Yeast Fresco. The Fresco is supposed to be incapable of creating the rotten egg sulfur/H2S. Hydrogen sulfide has been the bane of my cider making existence, even with the addition of nutrients.

The batches are not precisely the same and I did make some additions to one of them (malic acid and tannin) so I don't know whether people would find the results useful. I will be using nutrients in the form of Fermaid K and Fermaid O in both batches.

 

[CatsCradle]

I really like the liquid cider yeasts from either White Labs or Wyeast. Both make an excellent dry cider, drop out for a brilliantly clear beverage.

How much of the liquid yeast do you use? Is it one pack for 5 gallons?

 

[rivalry15]

I have gotten away with only using one pack of WL yeast, but I typically use 2 to make sure I have the numbers of yeasties needed for a good ferment along with nutrient.

 

[z-bob]

Many cider makers recommend and swear by nutrient additions.

That being said, I think my ciders are the best around and I NEVER use nutrient. The sulfur "rhino farts" that everybody talks about goes away on its own with enough age, a couple months or less. Nutrient isn't helping with that, it happens by itself.

I need to try a really aggressive wine yeast like EC-1118 or Premier Cuvee, but ferment without any nutrients to slow it down and not add much sugar, and see how it does.

Usually I use whatever beer yeast slurry I have handy and add nutrients. Or sometimes a packet of Cote des Blanc wine yeast and a half dose of nutrients.

 

[rivalry15]

I have primarily used WLP002 and fermented around 58-60 degrees. I like it because it leaves a fair bit of apple aroma and a touch of sweetness. I do have some samples of new Fermentis cider yeasts I want to try to see how they perform. I expect they act more like a wine yeast.