Cider with wood chips

[rhys333]

Hey everyone,
I'd like to make apple cider with french oak chip addition. I'm thinking a 3 gallon trial batch with a combination of pressed apple cider and cheapie filtered apple juice. I plan to boost abv a couple points with brown and white sugar. I'm wondering what the best way is to add the wood chips to avoid risk of infection. Will it work well to boil a sugar water solution, and add wood chips while it cools to sterilize? This would leave the chips loose in the fermentor throughout primary. If the best approach is to add the chips after primary, how do I sanitize them? Thanks.

 

[FourSeasonAngler]

First off let me start by saying my 5 gallons of oaked cider were terrible. I would not try this again even if I was paid to.

Now, the French oak chips I used were the medium toast chips and they were soaked/submerged in chardonnay for 3 weeks. The chardonnay may have been what ruined the cider, but I doubt it since I drink the chardonnay and love it, and I drink my plain cider and love it. I think it was the wood chips.

Perhaps if you are looking for something more like a bourbon barrel wood character, soak your chips in bourbon for a few weeks first...

 

[bernardsmith]

Oak may provide more complexity to the flavor - it will add some tannin - I might add 1 oz of oak to a gallon but I would add the oak after fermentation (just before I am ready to bottle ) and I would add the oak for a few days , taste the cider and decide if I wanted the cider oaked for longer. I don't think I have ever added oak to cider and because my cider tends to have about 7 or 8 percent alcohol I am not sure how confident I would be about the cider preventing any infection caused by bacteria that may be riding on the wood chips in a way that I am pretty confident that if I add oak to my wines (11 or 12 percent ABV) I don't really need to worry about contamination.

 

[rhys333]

First off let me start by saying my 5 gallons of oaked cider were terrible. I would not try this again even if I was paid to.

Now, the French oak chips I used were the medium toast chips and they were soaked/submerged in chardonnay for 3 weeks. The chardonnay may have been what ruined the cider, but I doubt it since I drink the chardonnay and love it, and I drink my plain cider and love it. I think it was the wood chips.

Perhaps if you are looking for something more like a bourbon barrel wood character, soak your chips in bourbon for a few weeks first...

I'm looking for subtle undertones, and figured the french medium toast would work well for that. What was it about yours you didn't like? Was the flavor too dominant? I'm wondering if a 1 oz, 1 week addition would work. I just read an article recommending to steam the chips for sanitation, then adding to fermentor in a hop sock (following fermentation).

 

[rhys333]

Oak may provide more complexity to the flavor - it will add some tannin - I might add 1 oz of oak to a gallon but I would add the oak after fermentation (just before I am ready to bottle ) and I would add the oak for a few days , taste the cider and decide if I wanted the cider oaked for longer. I don't think I have ever added oak to cider and because my cider tends to have about 7 or 8 percent alcohol I am not sure how confident I would be about the cider preventing any infection caused by bacteria that may be riding on the wood chips in a way that I am pretty confident that if I add oak to my wines (11 or 12 percent ABV) I don't really need to worry about contamination.

Was thinking 1 oz for maybe 3 gallons.

 

[waarhorse777]

First off let me start by saying my 5 gallons of oaked cider were terrible. I would not try this again even if I was paid to....

I just picked up some French Oak Medium Toast chips last night as well to dabble with. Was planning on making an extract vs putting the chips directly in. What was it, flavor-wise, that made it so terrible?

 

[botigol]

I have not yet put oak into a cider, but once I added half of a medium-toast French oak spiral to a med-light red wine, so somewhat comparable beverages so far as body and strength of flavor. I left half of a medium toast, French oak spiral in for only 48 hours. After a year of aging the oak was still too prominent. I would suggest making an extract by soaking the oak in your liquor of choice (vodka if you just want the oak) and then, after your cider is clear, pull a sample for testing. The following numbers may or may not be accurate, I am a little groggy and I haven't done this type of testing in over a year...The sample should be 100 ml, so that when you add 1 ml of oak extract you have a scalable result. This way the oak is sanitized and you can more accurately control the amount of oak being added.

 

[FourSeasonAngler]

I just picked up some French Oak Medium Toast chips last night as well to dabble with. Was planning on making an extract vs putting the chips directly in. What was it, flavor-wise, that made it so terrible?

I had 1 oz. of the chardonnay soaked chips in 5 gallons of cider for 1 week and the oak presence was entirely too much. I am coming up on 1 year of aging this fall. If by November it seems to have mellowed out it would still need another decade to be drinkable.

 

[rhys333]

I just picked up some French Oak Medium Toast chips last night as well to dabble with. Was planning on making an extract vs putting the chips directly in. What was it, flavor-wise, that made it so terrible?

How about side by side test on this? I'm curious how your extract method turns out, buy i'm thinking of trying the 1week hop sock method. Based on what i'm hearing, i might do 0.5 or 0.75oz for only 5 to 7 days

 

[WVMJ]

Just toss them in, in the olden times they used to age cider in oak barrels, depending on how you ferment your cider, if you do a long primary before racking add have in then, when you rack off if its not enough add the other half. Your cider needs to be a good one to stand up to oaking, if its light or watery the oak will be out of balance. We actually add at least a little oak to all of our country wines including strawberry, just a little, not so much you would notice it as oaky. WVMJ

 

[Paps]

A lot of people are hyper-sensitive to oak flavors and therefore it is commonly beleived that it is VERY easy to "over oak" a brew, and that it never really mellows out once over oaked.
Go with a small amount and check it often, pulling it off the oak just a little bit BEFORE you think it's where it should be (rumor has it its flavor intensifies just a touch after you pull them out)
Also somewhere fairly recently in the "post your infection" thread there was somebody that got their infection from wood chips soaked in vodka so i'd not trust the presence of high ABV alone to kill off everything....use heat in your preffered mehod (steam/oven/microwave/ect)

 

[rhys333]

Just toss them in, in the olden times they used to age cider in oak barrels, depending on how you ferment your cider, if you do a long primary before racking add have in then, when you rack off if its not enough add the other half. Your cider needs to be a good one to stand up to oaking, if its light or watery the oak will be out of balance. We actually add at least a little oak to all of our country wines including strawberry, just a little, not so much you would notice it as oaky. WVMJ

When you say not watery, do you mean it needs to be higher alcohol content to stand up to the oaking? I'm planning for around 7-8% ABV

 

[Safa]

Just my experience:

I brewed a 6 gallon batch of cider bumped up to 10.5% with maple syrup. I toasted my own oak chips in the oven, soaked them in dark rum and added them after fermentation was done.

Cider turned out beautifully. We kicked the keg in a day even though there were many other beers/wines on offer.

Best of luck!


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[rhys333]

Just my experience:

I brewed a 6 gallon batch of cider bumped up to 10.5% with maple syrup. I toasted my own oak chips in the oven, soaked them in dark rum and added them after fermentation was done.

Cider turned out beautifully. We kicked the keg in a day even though there were many other beers/wines on offer.

Best of luck!


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

Awesome, glad it worked for you. Do you recall how much oak you used for the 6 gallons?

 

[Safa]

Afraid I didn't measure scientifically, it was about three or four handfuls.

Just remembered, after soaking the chips, I let them dry/waft in a brown paper bag for a week (I was told that would avoid imparting a boozy flavor in the cider from the rum), and then left the cider on the chips for a week.


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[rhys333]

Afraid I didn't measure scientifically, it was about three or four handfuls.

Just remembered, after soaking the chips, I let them dry/waft in a brown paper bag for a week (I was told that would avoid imparting a boozy flavor in the cider from the rum), and then left the cider on the chips for a week.


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Okay, so a decent amount then. That helps me get a sense how much to try. Sorry, one more question... did you toss them in loose or using a hop sock?

 

[WVMJ]

Oak has some flavors that dissolve in water and some in alcohol, so if you soak them in alcohol and drain it off you are loosing some flavor. Its not as hard as you are making it, just toss them in like winemakers do. WVMJ

 

[Safa]

Just tossed them in!


WVMJ: that may be the case, and if so I am glad I soaked them in rum beforehand. Cider doesn't have the flavor to handle significant levels of oak. Too much and you'd be drinking a tree with no other flavor attributes.


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[rhys333]

Easy enough. I'm thinking molasses could work well with the chips, so gonna try this:

1 gallon pressed cider
2 gallons apple juice (have it already, plus clearer product sooner)
1 lb fancy molasses
1 lb brown sugar
Ec-1118 yeast
Nutrient and pectic enzyme
0.75 oz french oak chips for 1 week after fermentation
Backsweeten slightly with xylitos, and carb to 2.5 vols

 

[Safa]

Sounds interesting, let us know how it goes


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[WVMJ]

I forget you beer guys like to make everything harder and are afraid everything is contaminated In the old days they only had oak kegs to make their cider in, now people have gotten used to that water bubbley stuff in a six pac thinking that is real real cider. I would love to get a keg to age mine in but the wife says we dont have any more room and it would have to have be a dual function, like put a TV on it or something. WVMJ

 

[rhys333]

Will do Safa. Hopefully it's not lawn fertilizer

 

[Fossey]

I have previously oaked at 1 oz per gallon for the three weeks prior to bottling with good results.

I tried natural French Oak and toasted French Oak with the natural imparting more oak flavour - and which I preferred, like a Henry Westons Vintage.

To sanitize, I boiled them in apple juice until the juice reduced to a thin syrup, which obviously restarts fermentation again when added to the carboy.

 

[rhys333]

I have previously oaked at 1 oz per gallon for the three weeks prior to bottling with good results.

I tried natural French Oak and toasted French Oak with the natural imparting more oak flavour - and which I preferred, like a Henry Westons Vintage.

To sanitize, I boiled them in apple juice until the juice reduced to a thin syrup, which obviously restarts fermentation again when added to the carboy.

Interesting. Others experienced over-oaking with way less. Do you like it really oaky or did the boiling in apple juice file the spikes down a bit maybe?

 

[Fossey]

My batches were only 1 gallon.
I likened the oak flavour to Westons as I mentioned before. I don't oak every cider and I do like the flavour but not overly strong like an oaked red wine is.

 

[rhys333]

Well my cider has fermented and I'm oaking for 7 days with an oz of the french medium toast.

Curious, has anyone ever HAD an infection from not boiling/sanitizing chips first, either in cider or beer? Playing safe, I did boil my chips briefly and discarded the boiling liquid. I read recently microrganisms in the wood contribute some flavor complexity. Obviously I killed these off.