Cider with Partial Mash

[Brewkowski]

This is my first attempt at a cider and so far, the smell off the fermenter is quite foul. This was also my first time doing a partial mash and I'm sure I didn't do it very well. I'll blame the electric stove top and my inexperience I guess.

3 Gal Batch

-3 Gal of Apple Juice not from concentrate, asorbic acid added only
-8 oz Carmel 80
-4 oz Honey Malt
-4 oz Flaked Wheat
-4 oz Flaked Rice
-1 lb Light Brown Sugar
-1 lb Dark Brown Sugar
-1 can frozen apple juice from concentrate (didn't dilute it, just wanted more sugars)
-Lalvin 71b-1122 yeast

mashed grains in about 1.5 quarts of water, temps ranged from 150 up to 165 at some points. I added cold water and pulled it off the heat several times, but it was hard to maintain one good temp. Hopefully worse case scenario I get some additional unfermentables, which I wanted anyway. Mashed grains for an hour, then mixed in the sugars, 1 tsp yeast nutrient and mixed with juices in fermenter. The SG was around 1.072 and I wanted it a little higher, so I added in 12 oz of honey (warmed with water to mix better). Shook mixture in carboy pretty good and the SG was then around 1.081. Pitched yeast and put it away. Had a little krauzen layer after 12 hours, and one good day of action in the airlock, but it seems kind of slow after 1 week. Its around 63 degrees, so that might be part of it.
If it turns out at all, it should have a little bit of a kick to it and hopefully finish around 1.010, and not too sweet. I'm really not sure Beersmith calculated it correctly, but it was saying my SG should have been in the mid 1.090's. Guess we'll see.

 

[Yooper]

Did you boil the wort after mashing the grains? If you didn't, I bet the infection from the grains is what's causing the foul odor.

You don't want to boil juice (sets the pectins) but the resulting liquid from a mash with grain is loaded with bacteria. If you drained the mash, and boiled it, you'd be ok, though.

 

[Yooper]

I moved this thread into the cider forum. It was in the recipe database, which is for proven recipes, so I moved it back into the "cider" forum.

 

[Brewkowski]

Thanks for moving the post Yooper, and for advising me that I just made 3 gallons of apple flavored liquid bacteria. Apparently I missed that extremely important detail when I was looking into doing this. I'm cursing pretty bad right about know for not checking that. So I should dump it since I didn't boil it right? What would be the fun if I got it right the first time anyway.

 

[Yooper]

Thanks for moving the post Yooper, and for advising me that I just made 3 gallons of apple flavored liquid bacteria. Apparently I missed that extremely important detail when I was looking into doing this. I'm cursing pretty bad right about know for not checking that. So I should dump it since I didn't boil it right? What would be the fun if I got it right the first time anyway.

Heck, no. It might turn out to be a wonderful lacto-flavored cider. I'm not kidding- don't dump it until you're certain that cider vinegar tastes better. Even then, don't dump it. You just never know. I'm just explaining why it might not turn out, and why it may smell bad.

I think that you've got some great ideas, though, so don't give up!

 

[Brewkowski]

Oh, ok, I'll let it keep on rolling then. I'll keep a positive attitude, be patient, and induce vomiting after drinking gallons of it if required. Thanks again. I'll post if it turns into cider or if it makes a tasty marinade vinegar or not.

 

[Snuffalupagus]

Oh, ok, I'll let it keep on rolling then. I'll keep a positive attitude, be patient, and induce vomiting after drinking gallons of it if required. Thanks again. I'll post if it turns into cider or if it makes a tasty marinade vinegar or not.

actually, from what i've gathered it's pretty tough to accidently culture pathogens serious enough to really hurt you when home brewing - just things that will ruin the taste of your brew. so no need to induce vomiting

 

[philthycoder]

I've got an Apfelwein and a Cider fermenting right now, and they both stunk to high hell for 4-5 days at the beginning, with no signs of anything other than a healthy fermentation. It was the so-called "Rhino Farts" smell, and I just think apple-based beverages produce it regularly during fermentation.

 

[Brewkowski]

well, its been about ten days and the smell has calmed down quite a bit. I can only smell it if I stick my face up near the airlock. It's still bubling about 1 bubble every 6 seconds or so, but I had to move it. The room I had it in is draft and the carboy was reading about 58, the Narbonne yeast bottoms out around 59 I guess, so I moved it into a room where the ambient is around 70, in a closet with my furnace and water heater. Will this temp move affect it too much? I had it covered with a blanket in the other room, but I just couldn't keep the temp up.

 

[Yooper]

No, wine yeast strains do well at a variety of temperatures. It'll be fine.

 

[Brewkowski]

Well, I found a bathroom vanity cabinet on sale at Home Depot for $7.50 it was 18x16 or so and I'm going to work on tryin to turn it into some kind of insulated box that I could keep stable temps in. So far I've got 1/2 foam board around all the sides, I'll probably be able to get another 1/2 inch and then see if I'll be able to rig up some spots for ice jugs. I hate dealing with shifting temperatures.

 

[Brewkowski]

Well, nevermind the vanity box for temperatures, the cider is pretty done as far as I can tell. I transferred to secondary tonight and the FG was 1.002, that should give me about 10.4 ABV. I didn't expect it to finish that low, but oh well. The yeast is supposed to be good until 14% or so, so I should have enough yeast to bottle, right?? I'd like to be able to sweeten and carbonate it, is that possible without artificial sweeteners, or killing the yeast and force carbing?? It did turn out a little soft, so I'll be adding a little acid blend when I bottle. Overall, so far I would call it a success, it's a little cloudy, but hopefully that will clear up. Would it help to drop the temp significantly to clear it up, or would that minimize the yeast I need for carbing?

 

[MacBruver]

Yeah, the yeast should be fine. if you want to sweeten and carb, you'll need to use a non-fermentable sugar for the sweetening, like lactose. search here for backsweetening.

Alternatively, killing off the yeast, sweetening, and force carbing is doable.

Leave the cider for a while longer, it should clear up. otherwise read up on cold crashing.

 

[Brewkowski]

Ok, just tasted my second sample of the cider, it's pretty much crystal clear. I've got about 1.5L leftover that I'm tasting out of and fine tuning flavors. I've 1/4tsp of Acid Blend and that didn't do much, so I added another 1/2 to see if that pushes it too far then I'll calc out for my 3 gal. I still plan on carbing with apple juice concentrate, how much apple flavor does it add? Right now I would say it is not a very crisp cider, and maybe a little light on apple, but I'm not sure what will happen after I carb or if that will bring out or change any flavors. Does anybody make a Granny Smith apple juice concentrate? That might be different.