Cider recipe recommendation?

[Tobor_8thMan]

We're going to a farm on Saturday. They have fresh cider available. I want to make some hard cider with the cider I plan on purchasing.

We don't like dry ciders.

I'm asking for cider recipe recommendations for a cider starting around 1.044/1046 and finishing around 1.008/1.010 so I know how much cider to purchase.

Thanks.

 

[blasterooni]

You can buy as much cider that you wish to brew. To get a sweet cider, you will have to monitor the gravity, then add Sorbate-K and PMB, or heat pasteurize to halt fermentation when the cider reaches the desired gravity or taste. I am admittedly a newbie, and others will definitely chime in, and perhaps give better, more clear advice, especially as to the dosing amounts for the 2 compounds, and even when to add it.

If you are asking for which apples to make the cider from with respect to "recipe suggestions", apple choices are not something I am familiar with as far as blending varieties to get the right amount of sweetness, tannin, and acidity. Thus far, I have only made cider from the handy dandy store bought juice.

As far as recipes using additives go, there are so many to choose from. Here are two that I like outside of just straight cider:

1) Dry hopping: I really love citra hops at 1 oz per 5 gallons added during the end of secondary for 7-10 days, then keg carb, or

2) Add spices and extracts: I made one gallon using 2 cinnamon sticks, and vanilla extract, I added a little at at time until I got the desired taste, also during secondary, however, I added the cinnamon and the vanilla at the start of secondary, and added more vanilla along the way. My wife loved the second one since it was fairly sweet; I used FAJC to back-sweeten and as the priming sugar for bottle carbing. That stuff went fast!

I hope this helps

 

[Chalkyt]

You are right, there will be plenty of opinions, so here is mine...

Most juice from apples has a SG of around 1.005, although the apples from my trees seem to range from this for "eating apples" up to above 1.006 for crab apples. Traditional cider apples such as Dabinet, Kingston Black and Yarlington Mill are hard to find here in Oz so we have to work with what is readily available and add tannin, acid, etc if necessary to taste. I generally don't bother and still get good results, so I imagine that generally the same issue applies in the USA.

My nearest major apple growing region is a few hours away on the other side of the mountains and a number of producers over there have added traditional cider apples to their orchards (most of them grow Pink Ladies commercially), and are starting to produce ciders.. I understand that adding "traditional" cider apples make a great recipe.

The easiest way I found to make a sweeter cider is to add a non fermentable sweetener before you bottle. most of these have a reputation for causing gastric issues in some people but I haven't experienced this type of problem. I found that Xylitol worked O.K. as the quantities and sweetening effect is about the same as sugar, but beware it can be bad for dogs (if you have a Hooch Pooch).

My favourite way is to include pears (about 10%-20%). They do add a subtle pear back taste and contain a lot more sorbitol (a non fermentable sweetener) than apples, but need to be firm and not too ripe when pressed or you can end up with mush rather than juice. A firm pear like Nashi or Buerre Bosc works O.K.

Also I agree that adding about a teaspoon per litre of hops in a teabag for a few days at the end of secondary is worthwhile. But, taste, taste, taste, as the cider seems to take on the hops flavour quite quickly.

I haven't tried chemicals or heat pasteurisation to stop fermentation at around 1.010 or so, as it all seems to be a bit too hard to monitor. However if you search through this forum you will find plenty of advice about successful heat pasteurisation methods.

 

[z-bob]

Make a dry cider; it's *much* simpler and even safer. Then sweeten to taste at serving time. That work best with simple syrup or other liquid sweetener rather than adding sugar or Sweet'n Low to your glass (those will fizz up and knock the carbonation down)

You could also add a little xylitol to the cider to sweeten it, the yeast won't eat that. You can buy it at the health food store or natural grocery. But keep your bag of xylitol where your dog can't get into because it's poisonous to them.

 

[Sequoiacider]

Most juice from apples has a SG of around 1.005, although the apples from my trees seem to range from this for "eating apples" up to above 1.006 for crab apples.

Looks like you got your decimals off. Starting Gravity for most apples is 1.050-1.060.

Tobor: You'll see an adage around these cider forums: "Sweet and Still is easy, Dry and Sparkling is easy. Sweet and Sparkling is difficult."
The reason for this is that is you want sweet cider, you need to stop the fermentation while there are still fermentable sugars in the cider, or add non-fermentable sugars such as Xylitol for sweetening (though many cider makers abhor the use of such additives). If you are going the stopping fermentation route, then you either need to do so prior to bottling (resulting in a Sweet/Still Cider), or the much more difficult in-bottle heat pasteurization method detailed in the sticky in these forums if you want a Sparkling Sweet Cider.

I agree with z-bob. The easiest method is to brew your cider dry, and then sweeten when serving. This way you can easily make it sparkling, and you also get lots of different options for how to sweeten. You can use Juice(apple or other), Honey, Sugar, Maple Syrup, Agave or almost anything else you can think of. You can also easily do side by side comparisons with the type and amount of sweetener being the only change. Plus, you'll have dry cider for your friends who prefer it dry.

 

[RPh_Guy]

To get a sweet cider, you will have to monitor the gravity, then add Sorbate-K and PMB

Just wanted to mention: this won't work.
Sorbic acid inhibits yeast replication, so adding it when fermentation is mostly finished won't do anything. Sulfite does not kill yeast either.

Lots of other good advice here though

 

[Chalkyt]

Whoops... yes, the decimals are off. As a rough rule of thumb you would expect apple juice to be around SG 1.050. Don't know where those extra zeros came from but they would certainly mess up the ABV calculations. Sorry!!!!

 

[blasterooni]

Just wanted to mention: this won't work.
Sorbic acid inhibits yeast replication, so adding it when fermentation is mostly finished won't do anything. Sulfite does not kill yeast either.

Lots of other good advice here though

I must be reading something wrong... Ive read:
"Stabilizing cider with campden and potassium sorbate:
Adding campden and sorbate to cider together is an effective way to stop any further fermentation when back sweetening with a fermentable sugar."

 

[blasterooni]

I must be reading something wrong... Ive read:
"Stabilizing cider with campden and potassium sorbate:
Adding campden and sorbate to cider together is an effective way to stop any further fermentation when back sweetening with a fermentable sugar."

Now i get it... go to dry, STABILIZE with chems, then sweeten... newbiness at its finest!

 

[RPh_Guy]

I must be reading something wrong... Ive read:
"Stabilizing cider with campden and potassium sorbate:
Adding campden and sorbate to cider together is an effective way to stop any further fermentation when back sweetening with a fermentable sugar."

No worries. Cunningham's Law at work.

You need to separate cider from the yeast before you can stabilize with sorbate.
For example, you can ferment dry, allow to clarify, rack off the lees, and then stabilize and back sweeten.

Actively fermenting cider has LOTS of yeast in it, so adding sorbate during fermentation will not stop fermentation, and will potentially cause off-flavors.

 

[S-Met]

Now i get it... go to dry, STABILIZE with chems, then sweeten... newbiness at its finest!

Exactly this.

Now my take:
Forgive me @Tobor_8thMan. I have seen you on the forum but cannot recall your experience or methodology for brewing.

Yeast, nutrients and method are most important. Don't get sucked into the beer-trap. 75% yeast attenuation for beer will probably give you 100% attenuation with Apple juice. Also remember that there are very limited nutrients in Apple juice. Your Fermentation Will be much happier with a little yeast nutrient. Temperature control is important, take your time don't rush it and give your site are plenty of time to settle. 4 to 6 weeks is very normal

Regarding yeast selection, I am a recent fan of 71b, but you will get a million varying opinions regarding this topic. I like my cider fermented down to 1.000, which tends to be slightly off dry. SO4 and safcider are also very popular.

If you are kegging, stabilize and back sweeten. If bottling and you are familiar with your yeasts common fg, you can bottle with 10pts remaining - (i use champagne bottles and plastic cork/wire cagedue to the higher pressure tolerance.)

 

[S-Met]

Forgot to mention, if you buy extra juice and stabilize, you can use it to back sweeten your cider. I haven't been motivated enough to do yet, but secondary inbottle and disgorge (methode champenoise) then top with stabilized juice.

 

[RPh_Guy]

you can bottle with 10pts remaining - (i use champagne bottles and plastic cork/wire cagedue to the higher pressure tolerance.)

10 points will produce about 5 volumes, so you're looking at 5.5-6 volumes counting the residual CO2. I assume you were suggesting to pasteurize after adequate carbonation?

 

[S-Met]

10 points will produce about 5 volumes, so you're looking at 5.5-6 volumes counting the residual CO2. I assume you were suggesting to pasteurize after adequate carbonation?

No, ferment dry and age for a couple years at cellar temp like champagne. Though I only did that three times, twice were mediocre results. While I feel I make a good cider, I feel its just a table cider and didn't stand up to aging. Since then, I started kegging and have been happy with a prosecco-like product. Might consider doing again after I'm able to dedicate more time.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I see. Carbonation leaks out through the cork. That's probably worth mentioning

 

[blasterooni]

Exactly this.

Now my take:
Forgive me @Tobor_8thMan. I have seen you on the forum but cannot recall your experience or methodology for brewing.

Yeast, nutrients and method are most important. Don't get sucked into the beer-trap. 75% yeast attenuation for beer will probably give you 100% attenuation with Apple juice. Also remember that there are very limited nutrients in Apple juice. Your Fermentation Will be much happier with a little yeast nutrient. Temperature control is important, take your time don't rush it and give your site are plenty of time to settle. 4 to 6 weeks is very normal

Regarding yeast selection, I am a recent fan of 71b, but you will get a million varying opinions regarding this topic. I like my cider fermented down to 1.000, which tends to be slightly off dry. SO4 and safcider are also very popular.

If you are kegging, stabilize and back sweeten. If bottling and you are familiar with your yeasts common fg, you can bottle with 10pts remaining - (i use champagne bottles and plastic cork/wire cagedue to the higher pressure tolerance.)

I like to go to 1.000 as well. I leave it there with no backsweetening, unless it's a cider that is more for the wifey, who likes it sweeter. One thing I have been thinking of is brewing a 5 gallon batch of "base cider," then when I rack to secondary, split the five gallons into say one 3 gallon carboy, and the rest into gallon jugs. Then add whatever to each separate batch (e.g. the 3 gallon could get dry hopped, and one could get backsweetened with FAJC, and the other a spiced cider of some sort). I have a cider fermenting with US-05 and another with Nottingham, and I am thinking of using the US-05 to do just that.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Really not interested in backsweetening. How do the Brewer's Best Cider kits do it? Concentrated juice and 2 lbs corn sugar into 6 gallons of water finishes 1.008 to 1.010. I've bottle primed them without any issues.

 

[CKuhns]

FAJC to 1.065. SO4 yeast at 62 - 64 deg F. No additional Nutrients. Aerate / release CO2 2X a day for first 3 to 4 days. Almost always stops between 1.008 and 1.004

Not sure how the kits do it - sorry.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

FAJC to 1.065. SO4 yeast at 62 - 64 deg F. No additional Nutrients. Aerate / release CO2 2X a day for first 3 to 4 days. Almost always stops between 1.008 and 1.004

Not sure how the kits do it - sorry.

Sounds like what I'm seeking in the FG. Sorry, but what does FAJC mean?

 

[S-Met]

Frozen Apple Juice Concentrate.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

We're visiting a local farm today. How much apple juice or apple cider? 3 gallons?

 

[S-Met]

We're visiting a local farm today. How much apple juice or apple cider? 3 gallons?

As much cider as you want to make + an extra quart or 2 to enjoy.

If space isn't an issue for your visit, bring a carboy. They may be willing to bulk fill for you..

 

[blasterooni]

Sounds like what I'm seeking in the FG. Sorry, but what does FAJC mean?

Frozen apple juice concentrate (FAJC)