Cholaca - Pure Liquid Cacao

[jjf485]

So I ordered this Cholaca stuff after finding out it's what Oskar Blues uses in Death by Coconut (doing a clone). But since it's pure liquid cacao, and therefore entirely reconstituted into the beer unlike cacao nibs, I'm not quite yet sure how much to use... anyone used it and have experience/recommendations?

All else, I'll dump some into secondary or bottling and taste until it's right. I'm just surprised there's little info about it being used in homebrew...

 

[ten80]

I just dumped 8 oz into a Left Hand Milk Stout clone fermented with 34/70 lager yeast. Seemed like the correct amount base on an rather arbitrary taste test. Will report back in a month or so.

 

[BrewerBrad82]

I just dumped 8 oz into a Left Hand Milk Stout clone fermented with 34/70 lager yeast. Seemed like the correct amount base on an rather arbitrary taste test. Will report back in a month or so.

Any updates on this one? This sounds pretty promising.

 

[NickersonC]

I have a clone of Death by Coconut by Oskar Blues plugged into Beersmith. I believe it was formulated mostly from a subreddit that was somewhat of a live roundtable with the brewers themselves.

Here's the pre-reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Homebrewing/comments/3ovsv0/ama_with_oskar_blues_brewery/

And the bit with the brewers themselves: https://www.reddit.com/r/Homebrewin...nced_brewers_round_table_oskar_blues_brewery/

Anyway, my DbC clone has 12oz Cholaca plugged in. I didn't re-read through the page again, but I believe it was a homebrew-level estimation from the brewers, since I know they do address DbC on a homebrew level somewhere in there. The beauty of it is that you can add it at bottling, so no worries about resurrected fermentation; if it's not cholaca-y enough, add more.

Hope that helps. The only thing I didn't get clear answer on is whether to use the 'raw' version or the coconut sugar version.

EDIT: Did a keyword search on the page, and when they address DbC, they don't mention the Cholaca amount, so the 12oz must have come from a clone recipe somewhere else online. As aforementioned, you can always add more, so maybe start with 8oz.

 

[BrewerBrad82]

I did a little more digging on the Cholaca website and it looks like they recommend a starting point of 1 gal/bbl. This would equate to ~ 21 oz per 5 gallon batch. Im going to give it a shot.

 

[SanPancho]

subscribed. and ordered a sample.

did you guys find it locally in a store or did you have to order it from them? i see whole foods and sprouts carry it, but not sure if that's just in colorado.

 

[NickersonC]

I did a little more digging on the Cholaca website and it looks like they recommend a starting point of 1 gal/bbl. This would equate to ~ 21 oz per 5 gallon batch. Im going to give it a shot.

Haven't used the stuff yet, but that seems a bit high based off of our estimations so far. I'd go with less, and if you want more you can always add more.

As far as acquiring the stuff, I always assumed I'd order it. I have so many beers I want to make, it's hard to tell when this one will actually arrive. I'm guessing around the fall so it would be in its prime in the winter.

 

[ten80]

EDIT: I'm a bonehead! I forgot that I had posted in the beginning of this thread when I originally put the Cholaca in my Left Hand Milk Stout clone.

Anyways, the beer upon kegging had a nice level of dark chocolate flavor that ended fairly dry on the palate. I should add that the recipe did include some coacoa powder at the end of the boil.

The beer is currently lagering so it will be a month or so before I report on the finished beer taste when on tap. I can compare it to the ale-fermented version which did not get Choloca.

 

[Nichols2127]

I did a standard sweet stout (1 lb lactose in a 5 gallon batch) and used about half a bottle of unsweetened Cholaca and it turned out fantastic! I have had neighbors begging for more bottles. I think the lactose is key to keeping a good sweet chocolate taste.

 

[Lalo]

ten80, any updates on your Cholaca-Left Hand Stout clone? How did it turn out? Did it need more or less Cholaca?

 

[sfrisby]

I did a standard sweet stout (1 lb lactose in a 5 gallon batch) and used about half a bottle of unsweetened Cholaca and it turned out fantastic! I have had neighbors begging for more bottles. I think the lactose is key to keeping a good sweet chocolate taste.

Half of an 8oz bottle? Thanks.

 

[ten80]

Half of an 8oz bottle? Thanks.

probably 1/2 of a standard 12oz bottle.

I will test my lagered stout tonight (if I remember) and report back on how 8 oz worked in my ~4.5 gal batch.

EDIT: 8 oz in 4 gallons is just about right! Super chocolatey without overdoing the flavor or making the beer harsh.

 

[Dorimo]

I just got a bottle of Cholaca for brewing with, and while doing some research I found this thread My plan is to brew my Chocolate Peanut Butter Milk Stout and based off what I have read so far I think I will be aiming for around a 1/4 bottle and then taste it. The main issue I've been having with my recipe is getting the chocolate level right and so I'm really excited to try this out because you can just keep adding more until you get what your looking for I'll post an update once I get the beer into the keg (I should be brewing this up coming Wednesday) Cheers!

 

[Homercidal]

Visited the Cholaca vendor at NHC. His recommended dosage was a bit more than half the jug for a 5 gallon batch. Seems like a lot to me. The taste test I had with a small sample of Milk Stout from the vendor next to him was pretty positive. Dosage was not metered very accurately, but it tasted pretty decent.

 

[joegbeer]

I saw that this is made in Boulder, CO. So now I'm thinking this is the missing ingredient to my Boulder Shake (chocolate porter clone).

What does straight Cholaca taste like? Sweet, bitter?

Can't wait to try this.

 

[ten80]

Cholaca tastes like a very smooth cacao powder with no sweetness and a very subdued bitterness. I think it may add a little mouthfeel but it also has a bit of a "drying" effect on the palate (as does cacao powder), so it is good to balance it with some maltiness or lactose.

 

[BrewerBrad82]

I have now made two beers with Cholaca. I did a 10 gallon batch of a Robust Porter and split it into two 5 gallon fermentations. After fermentation subsided, I added 1 lb of toasted coconut and 16 oz of Cholaca to one, and just 16 oz of Cholaca to the other. Turned out fantastic! The cocoa character was just right IMO, without being too overpowering as to mask the flavor of the base beer. The coconut variant was like a Mounds bar in a glass when served on cask.

 

[konofaye]

For those of you who have used it, did you add it to secondary or at bottling?

I'd love to split my stout to have some base beer and have some with chocolate, but wasn't sure how it'd blend at bottling/kegging.

 

[sfrisby]

I added after fermentation. It forms a sludge at the bottom.

 

[konofaye]

I added after fermentation. It forms a sludge at the bottom.

Did you stir it in/move it to bottling, or did you leave it with the trub?

 

[sfrisby]

Left it behind when racked to bottling bucket.

 

[ten80]

Did you stir it in/move it to bottling, or did you leave it with the trub?

I added mine in when the fermentation started to slow to minimize oxidation. The yeast kicked up a bit and I think the cholaca was kept in suspension for a week or so by the action of the fermentation. I then lagered the beer (chocolate stout) and racked off a dark but fairly clear beer. The cholaca was trapped in the yeast cake.

Given my results, I'd say that some cold-storage will drop out any cholaca that is in suspension. A good practice for chocolate beers anyways as it helps smooth the flavors.

 

[Dorimo]

my chocolate stout was racked onto the cholaca in the keg, I am about to force carbonate it soon, but i guess i should maybe roll the keg a bit and stir up any settling or do you think i should just let it go and see how it turns out?

 

[Nichols2127]

Sorry for the very late reply, I used 1/2 of a 32 oz bottle in my stout along with 1 lb of lactose in my 5 gallon batch. Was very happy with the flavor. So anywhere from 12-16oz should lend a good flavor for you.

 

[Morrey]

I just got my latest BYO magazine featuring several recipes from Oskar Blues. One of the recipes was Death by Coconut which called for Cholaca liquid cocoa. Seems more than one version (non-sweet, semi-sweet, sweet) of Chocala is available, but I am assuming non-sweetened is the right selection?

Regarding the dosage, I'll make a 12 G batch to keg. Would a 32 ounce bottle of Cholaca be too much? The recipe calls for about that much, but seems to be a huge portion.

They say the chocolate particulate will drop out of suspension and the beer will be infused nicely with flavor. Maybe this is why they call for so much. After fermentation settles off, I'll add toasted coconut in a muslin bag, add in the cholaca for infusing, then dump the trub and rack to keg in a few days.

Any flaws...please holler.

 

[Bluebane]

How much color does this impart? Would it work for a White/Pale/Golden stout?

 

[MapleGroveAleworks]

If you guys are looking for these flavors I highly recommend Silver Cloud Estates/Apex Flavors. Their extracts are super high quality and they have ones specifically for alcohol. DuClaw uses them for Sweet Baby Jesus

http://www.apexflavors.com/Beverage-Industry/Craft-Brewing

I've used their S'mores, French Toast, Chocolate Coconut, Maple Pecan Pie and they are all outstanding.

 

[Morrey]

If you guys are looking for these flavors I highly recommend Silver Cloud Estates/Apex Flavors. Their extracts are super high quality and they have ones specifically for alcohol. DuClaw uses them for Sweet Baby Jesus

http://www.apexflavors.com/Beverage-Industry/Craft-Brewing

I've used their S'mores, French Toast, Chocolate Coconut, Maple Pecan Pie and they are all outstanding.

Thanks for the tip. Have you used these flavors in beers or in other food products?

 

[MapleGroveAleworks]

Thanks for the tip. Have you used these flavors in beers or in other food products?

I've used them in beers and they are amazing. I find no need to use "fresh" items like actual coconut, chocolate etc. These are super high quality. I'm a fan.

 

[Morrey]

I've used them in beers and they are amazing. I find no need to use "fresh" items like actual coconut, chocolate etc. These are super high quality. I'm a fan.

Not surprised you'd recommend these over fresh ingredients in which the real thing usually a hassle. Additionally, real fruit additions can mean increased O2 exposure getting the fruits in and out (depending on the process), whereas these natural flavor additions are usually one and done. I emailed a couple of large breweries to find that they typically don't use real fruit (example was pineapple with one, and watermelon the other) saying their beers were infused with high quality flavor additions. Wouldn't surprise me if a company such as Apex worked with folks at New Belgium and the like.

 

[6midgets]

I've used them in beers and they are amazing. I find no need to use "fresh" items like actual coconut, chocolate etc. These are super high quality. I'm a fan.

I'm intrigued. How much do you normally add to a five gallon batch?

 

[MapleGroveAleworks]

I'm intrigued. How much do you normally add to a five gallon batch?

A teaspoon or so. Each extract comes with instructions on how much to add. It's easiest to start low and then add to taste. They work great and are painless and worry free. So many flavors too which is cool.

 

[6midgets]

A teaspoon or so. Each extract comes with instructions on how much to add. It's easiest to start low and then add to taste. They work great and are painless and worry free. So many flavors too which is cool.

I just ordered some chocolate to try in a milk porter that I've got in the fermenter. When do you normally add your flavorings?

 

[MapleGroveAleworks]

I just ordered some chocolate to try in a milk porter that I've got in the fermenter. When do you normally add your flavorings?

At kegging. I just drop it in right before racking to a keg.

If you bottle, mix it in when stirring your priming sugar in.

Either way hope you enjoy it.

 

[beer-me-now]

At kegging. I just drop it in right before racking to a keg.

If you bottle, mix it in when stirring your priming sugar in.

Either way hope you enjoy it.

I've been very curious about the Apex Flavors since reading about them in the Death By Coconut recipe clone thread - thank you!

Forgive my beginners question here but do I need to adjust the amount of priming sugar if I plan on adding an Apex Flavor before bottling?

 

[MapleGroveAleworks]

I've been very curious about the Apex Flavors since reading about them in the Death By Coconut recipe clone thread - thank you!

Forgive my beginners question here but do I need to adjust the amount of priming sugar if I plan on adding an Apex Flavor before bottling?

No - they have nothing to do with each other.

Enjoy the Apex flavors - they are amazing.

 

[beer-me-now]

No - they have nothing to do with each other.

Enjoy the Apex flavors - they are amazing.

Cheers and thanks!

 

[Morrey]

I've been very curious about the Apex Flavors since reading about them in the Death By Coconut recipe clone thread - thank you!

Forgive my beginners question here but do I need to adjust the amount of priming sugar if I plan on adding an Apex Flavor before bottling?

As James Miller says above, there is no need to adjust your priming sugar. However, that was heads up thinking on your part to be aware to ask this question. I looked at Apex Flavors Blood Orange that I had planned to buy to enhance a Gose that I'll make soon. I looked at their spec sheet and the Specific Gravity (SG) of this product is under 1.000 - frequently or generally meaning there is no sugar that will be available for yeast to consume in addition to the priming sugar you'll add. Just for reassurance I checked coconut and the SG was under 1.000 so no sugar there either.

 

[beer-me-now]

As James Miller says above, there is no need to adjust your priming sugar. However, that was heads up thinking on your part to be aware to ask this question. I looked at Apex Flavors Blood Orange that I had planned to buy to enhance a Gose that I'll make soon. I looked at their spec sheet and the Specific Gravity (SG) of this product is under 1.000 frequently or generally meaning there is no sugar that will be available for yeast to consume in addition to the priming sugar you'll add. Just for reassurance I checked coconut and the SG was under 1.000 so no sugar there either.

Thank you very much for this detailed explanation for why it's not an issue in this case, this will help me greatly in the future. Being a new brewer I wasn't exactly sure how to word my concern and you laid it out perfectly. I want to avoid bottles exploding in my closet!

 

[MapleGroveAleworks]

Thank you very much for this detailed explanation for why it's not an issue in this case, this will help me greatly in the future. Being a new brewer I wasn't exactly sure how to word my concern and you laid it out perfectly. I want to avoid bottles exploding in my closet!

Yeah these extracts are mostly alcohol, no sugar contribution to your beer. Let us know how they work out.