Chilling wort in FC after using immersion chiller then pitching yeast

[ILMSTMF]

I want to pitch to a 70F wort. I don't know my current ground water temp at the moment, sorry. History has shown that driving the wort temp down with the immersion chiller goes great from boiling to, say, 80F. But the last few degrees take a while.

I hate wasting water trying to drive down the temp another 10 - 15 degrees. Can I cool to 80ish with the IC, transfer wort to bucket, seal it, put in FC (set to target pitch temp), then pitch yeast later on when the wort hits target temp? My reading of Palmer's older edition has it stuck in my head to "chill the wort as quickly as possible and pitch immediately". My idea here was to let the final chilling happen (possibly even slower) in the FC and save some water in the process. Stupid?

Yes, I know I can recirculate ice water from a cooler. Not equipped to do that (yet) but it's on the to-do list.

 

[parjay]

I have read that people go so far as to just toss their hot wort in the FC and pitch the next day. I think that your solution is perfectly fine. I am no expert, they will be here shortly, but I think that chilling down to 80ish degrees quickly will still give you the benefits associated with chilling to pitching temp in terms of clarity and hop utilization.

 

[mongoose33]

As long as you have taken pains to retain sanitation, you should be ok. Part of the reason why pitching immediately after chilling is to prevent any nasties that have fallen in from taking a foothold before the yeast can outcompete them.

An alternative some use is to run their water through a cooler with ice/water that chills that water down further and allows them to finish as soon as possible.

 

[LLBeanJ]

Not a problem to do what you're asking (I do it quite often), but keep in mind that as the wort continues to cool in the FC that it will create a vacuum in the ferm vessel, so plan accordingly.

 

[ILMSTMF]

Thanks all!

as the wort continues to cool in the FC that it will create a vacuum in the ferm vessel, so plan accordingly.

Such as... don't put Star San in the air lock? No idea what to plan for in this vacuum scenario lol, thanks. FWIW, lid will be removed in order to pitch yeast to wort.

 

[Hobby brewer]

Thoughts..... have you sanitized your FC? That's what it's going to pull from, and sanitized aluminum foil will cover just fine if so. IMO

 

[ILMSTMF]

Thoughts..... have you sanitized your FC? That's what it's going to pull from, and sanitized aluminum foil will cover just fine if so. IMO

Hmmm. Hadn't thought of sanitizing the FC itself... It won't hurt to spray Star San in there like a madman.
Anyway, I can use foil to cover bucket but is there an advantage to doing that versus the lid? I'd rather use the lid since it's got a grommet for the thermowell. Can control rate of cooling with that (duh).

 

[Hobby brewer]

Personally I would use the lid, I pictured a carboy in this scenario.

 

[GPP33]

This is exactly what I have done for the past half dozzen batches and it works fine. I usually pitch about 3 hours after putting it into the FC. use the lid, just leave the air lock dry, put some foil over it if it helps put your mind at ease.

 

[specharka]

It’s almost impossible to chill wort to lagering pitch temperatures from an IC/CFC, even after pre-chilling and using an ice bath. So I would say most brewers that make lagers have to finish chilling in their FC.

It’s really not a big deal — the only process difference I make is to avoid aerating the warmer wort and oxygenate after reaching fermentation temperatures and pitching my yeast.

 

[kh54s10]

Since the ground water here surpassed 80 degrees in February, that is what I have been doing. I do have a 2 part IC so I use ice to get a little below 80, but I use the fermentation chamber to get to pitching temperatures. I finish brewing in the mid afternoon and can usually pitch early in the evening.

 

[LLBeanJ]

Such as... don't put Star San in the air lock? No idea what to plan for in this vacuum scenario lol, thanks. FWIW, lid will be removed in order to pitch yeast to wort.

Plan accordingly means don't do something that is going to suck back sanitizer into your fermenter. So, yes, no Starsan in the airlock. Also, don't rig a blow off into a container of Starsan. You can use foil over a dry air lock as suggested above or take a paper towel, dunk it in sanitizer, squeeze it out, and stuff it into the airlock.

 

[ILMSTMF]

All great stuff, thanks everyone.

It’s almost impossible to chill wort to lagering pitch temperatures from an IC/CFC, even after pre-chilling and using an ice bath. So I would say most brewers that make lagers have to finish chilling in their FC.

It’s really not a big deal — the only process difference I make is to avoid aerating the warmer wort and oxygenate after reaching fermentation temperatures and pitching my yeast.

Yup, planning my first lager (not the beer this thread refers to) and in that planning discovered folks using this cooling method (IC first then FC to finish).

The problem I'll have is with aeration. Plan was to use kettle valve to transfer into bucket the ~80F wort thereby aerating it. Chill to pitching temp in FC, open lid, use sanitized whisk to stir the wort before pitching. I don't have a more elegant aeration procedure besides the transfer and whisk method. I don't think I'll be hurting the final beer by aerating the wort while hotter then pitching temp. At the risk of opening a can of worms, what do you all think?

Thank you!

 

[VirginiaHops1]

Hmmm. Hadn't thought of sanitizing the FC itself... It won't hurt to spray Star San in there like a madman.
Anyway, I can use foil to cover bucket but is there an advantage to doing that versus the lid? I'd rather use the lid since it's got a grommet for the thermowell. Can control rate of cooling with that (duh).

I don't really understand why people are suggesting sanitizing your FC. My process is exactly like what you're proposing. After boil/whirlpool I cool to about 80 as rapidly as I can. I do 2.5 gallon batches so I just use an ice bath. Once at or near 80 I pour it in the fermenter(Better Bottle), slap on an airlock and put it in my FC set at 66. I generally brew at night so I'll just come back and pitch in the morning. I don't really think you're going to get much suckback going from 80 to 66-70. I'm by no means an old vet but I've done several batches this way since moving to 2.5 gallons and they've turned out great.

80 is just an arbitrary number for me. I've read that's the threshold for hot side oxidation, but I've also read hot side oxidation is a myth at the homebrew level. My Better Bottle says it can handle much higher temps so I could probably dump it in hotter but going to 80 has worked and I usually achieve a nice cold break by then.

 

[specharka]

I don't really understand why people are suggesting sanitizing your FC. My process is exactly like what you're proposing. After boil/whirlpool I cool to about 80 as rapidly as I can. I do 2.5 gallon batches so I just use an ice bath. Once at or near 80 I pour it in the fermenter(Better Bottle), slap on an airlock and put it in my FC set at 66. I generally brew at night so I'll just come back and pitch in the morning. I don't really think you're going to get much suckback going from 80 to 66-70. I'm by no means an old vet but I've done several batches this way since moving to 2.5 gallons and they've turned out great.

80 is just an arbitrary number for me. I've read that's the threshold for hot side oxidation, but I've also read hot side oxidation is a myth at the homebrew level. My Better Bottle says it can handle much higher temps so I could probably dump it in hotter but going to 80 has worked and I usually achieve a nice cold break by then.

HSA is one of the homebrewing myths that’s quite real, and there’s an entire spectrum of LODO brewers that painstakingly try to avoid it at all costs. The fellows at Brulosophy did a terrific job oxidizing the control sample on their HSA exbeeriment, so their results weren’t exactly surprising.

I can’t definitively say that aerating prior to chilling in the FC and pitching will lead to a detrimental effects on your beer. But it’s easy enough to gently siphon the wort into the FV and aerate or oxygenate after you pitch the yeast.

 

[Mothman]

I often have a similar situation where I can chill to ~ 80F fairly quickly, but those last 10-15 degrees to get to my desired fermentation temps can be pretty slow.

What I generally do is chill to about 80F, put the lid on the kettle and go about a few immediate tidying up chores, then put the wort into my fermenting bucket. By the time I've done that it's generally down to around 75F, at which point I go ahead and aerate (I just stir/slosh) and pitch my yeast.

Then it goes into the fermentation cooler with ice bottles, and cools to my desired temperature (usually 65-68F) or so relatively quickly... say over the course of 2-3 hrs.

I've gone on an assumption that the yeast isn't going to be too fussed over being a few degrees "too warm" for a couple hours.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

HSA is one of the homebrewing myths that’s quite real, and there’s an entire spectrum of LODO brewers that painstakingly try to avoid it at all costs. The fellows at Brulosophy did a terrific job oxidizing the control sample on their HSA exbeeriment, so their results weren’t exactly surprising.

I can’t definitively say that aerating prior to chilling in the FC and pitching will lead to a detrimental effects on your beer. But it’s easy enough to gently siphon the wort into the FV and aerate or oxygenate after you pitch the yeast.

Well it's actually debatable I think, whether it's truly real enough to matter at the homebrew level. People should take as much care as they feel is necessary with their beer though. Maybe someday I'll do side by side batches with an identical recipe and try it each way. That's the only way I'd really know if it was real to me.

 

[specharka]

Well it's actually debatable I think, whether it's truly real enough to matter at the homebrew level. People should take as much care as they feel is necessary with their beer though. Maybe someday I'll do side by side batches with an identical recipe and try it each way. That's the only way I'd really know if it was real to me.

Oh I’m not pretending that HSA matters on a homebrewing level. Just that it’s not a myth. [emoji111]️

 

[VirginiaHops1]

Oh I’m not pretending that HSA matters on a homebrewing level. Just that it’s not a myth. [emoji111]️

I hear you man. I'm all about experimenting with processes so maybe I'll try a slow siphon transfer to FC and see if I notice any difference. I suspect I won't but I like to play around with the variables on my system. Brew on

 

[Hopalong]

Oxidation begins at the time when malt is added into hot mashing water, believe it or not.

Wort at 140F holds the most volume of oxygen, it's best to reduce temperature below 140F, quickly. ​

At the homebrew level oxidation isn't too much to worry about because the beer is pounded down soon after it's bottled and off flavors and darkening of the beer don't have enough time to appear.
Oxidation becomes an issue with authentic ale and lager because it takes longer for the beer to age/lager. A Beta (conversion) rest is used when ale and lager are produced. When conversion occurs secondary fermentation is required which adds two weeks to the brewing schedule and due to adding two extra weeks the Beta rest is omitted in recipes. Beta amylase turns glucose which is simple sugar into complex sugars, maltose and maltotriose during conversion. After secondary fermentation ends the beer is kegged without adding priming sugar or CO2 for carbonation. During aging/lagering yeast converts maltotriose into glucose which becomes yeast fuel and natural carbonation takes place which is much finer carbonation than sugar and CO2 carbonation. The beer hits expected FG during aging/lagering which takes a few months.
Fermentation temperature above 60F (liquid temperature) causes the off flavors associated with homebrew. High fermentation temperature is used for making malt/grain whiskey because fermentation is quick and the off flavors are removed during distillation.