Chilling: How Fast and How Far?

[Clint Yeastwood]

I am still plotting my return to brewing.

Back when George Washington and I used to brew together after hunting stegosauruses, I was taught I really needed to chill my wort fast. This is why I developed my method of throwing fermenters into my pool. Now I am reading that young whippersnappers have turned to no-chill brewing, which is pretty confusing, given how insistent people were on chilling way back when.

I see other people are now throwing fermenters into swimming pools. They said I was nuts to do it 20 years ago. Or maybe they said that for other reasons.

Anyway, has anyone ever come up with a solid answer as to how fast and to what temperature wort has to be chilled to get a cold break? I'm not asking about pitching temperature. Just whatever works to minimize haze.

 

[brewbama]

I maintain mash temp by running the wort thru a heat exchange coil in a hot water bath (aka HERMS). After the boil, I replace the hot water with cold water, and recirculate the wort thru it to chill. I’ve never timed it but I can imagine it takes 45 min to an hour to reach pitch temp. The return into the kettle whirlpools the wort so I kill two birds with one stone in my effort to transfer clear chilled wort into the fermenter. I’ve not had off flavors or haze issues using this technique.

 

[RM-MN]

I've seen cold break form before I could get the chiller started. I took the kettle off the burner and moved it to where I had room to put the chiller in and there was cold break right away.

 

[NSMikeD]

According to Tom Ayers of Love2Brew, the cold break using fast cooling methods will begin at 140°. Factors include how fast you cool and if you are using any fining agents. I did not see how fast is fast, but his article said using an ice bath is not sufficient and thus using fining agents is recommended to assist in forming the break. I also read that a slow cool (overnight) can achieve a good break in terms range of 70° to °50 - ie your swimming pool method.

While eliminating stuff that will haze is one reason to chill, another is that DMS is in the chill break which is left behind in the kettle.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

It's always good to get other people's input about things like this, because sometimes established wisdom turns out to be mythology.

 

[doug293cz]

another is that DMS is in the chill break which is left behind in the kettle.

Do you have a reference for this? Preferably a peer reviewed paper that measured DMS in trub vs. wort.

There is another well understood mechanism that can cause increased DMS in slow cooled wort. If there is still significant SMM in the wort at the end of the boil, then conversion to DMS will continue until the wort temp drops below about 170°F. Slow cooling will allow more of the residual SMM to convert to DMS, and if the wort is still, or worse yet in a closed container, any DMS formed during cooling will have difficulty evaporating from the wort (even tho DMS has a boiling point of ~100°F.)

Brew on

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

I think the pool should get me below 170 pretty fast. I've never noticed any weird flavors except from infected beers, but then Wikipedia's list of possible dimethyl sulfide flavors doesn't really sound all that bad!

 

[NSMikeD]

Do you have a reference for this? Preferably a peer reviewed paper that measured DMS in trub vs. wort.

There is another well understood mechanism that can cause increased DMS in slow cooled wort. If there is still significant SMM in the wort at the end of the boil, then conversion to DMS will continue until the wort temp drops below about 170°F. Slow cooling will allow more of the residual SMM to convert to DMS, and if the wort is still, or worse yet in a closed container, any DMS formed during cooling will have difficulty evaporating from the wort (even tho DMS has a boiling point of ~100°F.)

Brew on

I gave the source in my post.

 

[doug293cz]

I gave the source in my post.

Sorry, it wasn't clear that the Ayers article was the source for your last statement.

I looked at the Love2Brew website, and there don't appear to be any links to editorial content. Can you provide a link to the article.

Brew on

 

[doug293cz]

I gave the source in my post.

Sorry, it wasn't clear that the Ayers article was the source for your last statement.

I looked at the Love2Brew website, and there don't appear to be any links to editorial content. Can you provide a link to the article.

Brew on

Okay, on further searching, I found one article by Ayers here. But, he doesn't say anything about concentration of DMS in cold break precipitates. He does talk about the potential for DMS formation during slow cooling thru the higher temps.

Brew on

 

[Dland]

Don't know if it is a solid answer, but when I drop wort from near boiling to around 160F by running tap water though 50 ft immersion coil, takes about 6 minutes with a low flow of water, using less than 5 gallons to cool 12 gallons wort.. Cold break does form at that temp and cooling speed, may or may not be complete. I do use Whirlflock.

I am still plotting my return to brewing.

Anyway, has anyone ever come up with a solid answer as to how fast and to what temperature wort has to be chilled to get a cold break? I'm not asking about pitching temperature. Just whatever works to minimize haze.

Best wishes returning to brewing, I did about 4 years ago after around 25 year hiatus, and am glad I did. A lot has changed in homebrewing since then, and for the better. There is better gear and ingrediants more easily available, not to mention info, as found on this forum.

 

[TimLa]

I am still plotting my return to brewing.

Back when George Washington and I used to brew together after hunting stegosauruses, I was taught I really needed to chill my wort fast. This is why I developed my method of throwing fermenters into my pool. Now I am reading that young whippersnappers have turned to no-chill brewing, which is pretty confusing, given how insistent people were on chilling way back when.

I see other people are now throwing fermenters into swimming pools. They said I was nuts to do it 20 years ago. Or maybe they said that for other reasons.

Anyway, has anyone ever come up with a solid answer as to how fast and to what temperature wort has to be chilled to get a cold break? I'm not asking about pitching temperature. Just whatever works to minimize haze.

I am also plotting my return after my last grain purchase was in 2012. The industry has change a *lot* since then. When I moved here in 2018, I kept my grain mill, refractometer, and therminator. Going to give the therminator a chance, by removing all the fittings and giving it a 1 hour sauna completely submerged in my pressure canner at 15 pounds, followed by the usual PBW flush in both directions, then starsan. If that works, fine., If not, back to an immersion chiller.

Our well water here is over 4000 ppm TDS. Gypsum, mostly. Thus, 300 gallon storage tank for whole house RO: total heat sink. Tap water for chilling goes back in at the top of the tank. Zero water wasted.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

I don't know what's in my water apart from calcium and organisms that haven't had to deal with chlorine. I thought I'd brew some beer and see if it worked before getting into a can of worms I may not need to deal with. I hope your beer comes out great.

 

[oakbarn]

Plate Chiller

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

With warm tap water?

 

[oakbarn]

My tap water is quite cool in the winter. In the summer we use iced water.

 

[Dog House Brew]

I use my warmish tap to get to that 100 point. I recirculate to my BK and try to leave all the break in the kettle. I use a small pump in a small kiddie pool with a 3 frozen gallon milk jugs. I use a cfc and it works great. Once I go to the ice water it is full throttle to the fermenters. I do 20 gallons in about 45 minutes. I really can’t tell if my beers are better vs the forever time of my IM chiller.

 

[kevin58]

As quickly as possible. As close to pitching temp as possible.