Cheapest path to electric

[supermallard]

Ar you sure that we are talking about similar models? As per your earlier post you have 110v and induction cooker. This one is 220V 2200 Watts and infrared.So you can use with any vessel.

Would appear we aren't talking about similar models, my bad. Looking at the 220, that looks nice.

 

[applescrap]

Use that bucket heater, with the stove and you will be quick. Yes, many have swore good results with the induction burners. They have 220 and 110 versions. The one it seems everyone gets round here is about 200 iirc. You can also wrap your kettle and that helps supposedly. That bucket heater and a 110 induction heater sounds like a combo. Idk, maybe someone else knows better. Gfci throughout, obviously.

 

[wilserbrewer]

To go cheapest, one should be able to get by with one element. If the all-in-one units can make it work there's no reason the it shouldn't work in a kettle conversion. It just might take some time to get to temps and boil.

Yes agreed, one could “get by” with one element in a small kettle, certainly not a keggle as the OP suggested.

As a reference, I did 6 gallon batch in my BC 44qt yesterday. 2 elements at 2000w are quick to heat, and produce a vigorous boil, perhaps a little too much....one element with the lid 1/2 on boils gently.

Another very cheap path to indoor electric is an electric turkey fryer, the “Turk and surf” by masterbuilt has 1650w and will boil gently w the lid 1/2 on, and can be found on Craigslist very cheap sometimes. A used one will require a deep cleaning. Minimal watt brewing will take some time, and will seem like forever if your in a hurry.

 

[augiedoggy]

Understand what your saying about narrow kettles, but the grainfather and robobrew have a "magic" 1.4 h:d ratio, and the mash and boil is at a "magic" 0.8 ratio. Someone trying to go as cheap as possible could take a "magic" spoon and stir it the kettle to keep it mixing. The issue I have with this "magic" ratio is that unless one fills their kettle to the brim each time the liquid inside is not at the magic ratio and not going to receive the magic from the ratio. The only places I've ever seen the 1.2 ratio pushed is on retailer's sites.

All this means is its tall and narrow and tall narrow kettles show more movement and activity at a boil with less power since a much larger percentage of the liquid is directly above the element(more wort directly in heat and bubbles path up) tall narrow kettles are more efficient in other ways such as less boiloff and the ability to brew less while still covering the element. I agree its been oversimplified into market speak with magic ratios and such. a lot of cheaper kettles are as wide or wider than they are tall.. this is not ideal for reasons above.

 

[wilserbrewer]

I believe taller narrower kettles boil with less energy because the heat loss at the top open surface is less due to the smaller top area of exposed wort.

Top surface area of wort increases as a function of diameter squared. It’s substantial and I believe the greatest source of heat loss.

 

[lump42]

Yes agreed, one could “get by” with one element in a small kettle, certainly not a keggle as the OP suggested.

I wouldn't do it, but for 5 gal batch in a keggle, one element would be the cheapest route. Not "ideal" by most standards.

 

[lump42]

All this means is its tall and narrow and tall narrow kettles show more movement and activity at a boil with less power since a much larger percentage of the liquid is directly above the element(more wort directly in heat and bubbles path up) tall narrow kettles are more efficient in other ways such as less boiloff and the ability to brew less while still covering the element. I agree its been oversimplified into market speak with magic ratios and such. a lot of cheaper kettles are as wide or wider than they are tall.. this is not ideal for reasons above.

I understand the basics in electric, but it's been turned into a marketing term that eats at me, since they never explain more than "ideal"ratio. I also have issues when the magic ratio is said to be better in all situation. For electric brewing it makes sense, but on a gas burner it doesn't. A wide pot has more surface area to absorb heat from the burner. Is this not right?

I believe taller narrower kettles boil with less energy because the heat loss at the top open surface is less due to the smaller top area of exposed wort.

Top surface area of wort increases as a function of diameter squared. It’s substantial and I believe the greatest source of heat loss.

Would a lid negate quite a bit of this? Not trying to be a snarky, just trying to understand.

 

[Coastalbrew]

I am interested in doing a similar set up. Have been doing some research and here is what I am thinking...I have a 44Qt Stainless BK with a 15" diameter and 14" height. If I went with the Blichmann 10G boil coil (120V) and the stildragon controller, would I need anything else for a single vessel eBIAB setup? I do have a spare 30A/240 outlet on my patio if needed.

Appreciate your thoughts.

 

[wilserbrewer]

The 10g boil coil is 2250w, so that should produce an acceptable mild boil. With only 2250w I don't foresee much need to turn the power down, so rather than the controller, a simple 20a switch would work....others may disagree.

I need to keep the lid on 2/3 to get a decent mild boil in my 44qt kettle w/ 2000w.

Just thinking you will yearn for more power, certainly not less lol

 

[wilserbrewer]

The 10g boil coil is 2250w, so that should produce an acceptable mild boil. With only 2250w I don't foresee much need to turn the power down, so rather than the controller, a simple 20a switch would work....others may disagree.

I need to keep the lid on 2/3 to get a decent mild boil in my 44qt kettle w/ 2000w.

Just thinking you will yearn for more power, certainly not less lol

Or of course, more involved and faster better would be 240v w auto temp control pump etc, but that’s different, up to you.

FWIW boil coil more $$$ than other elements but it’s your money

 

[doublehaul]

Well I got a bid from an electrician for a spa sub panel and one 4 prong twist lock outlet. And I am getting pretty serious about this but I don't know which way to go.

Since I started this thread this came out: https://www.blichmannengineering.com/power-controller.html, and I am tempted to have -

Two 3 prong twist lock outlets put in off of the 50 amp spa panel and do two of those blichmann controllers to run two 5500 watt elements, and continue with my batch sparge program. But it is lame to have to come up with a ghetto solution to control my pump(s). And I guess I'd need to have two standard 120v outlets put in off of each circuit for the pumps(would they break it up 25, 25?).

OR - I was thinking of 1 30 amp outlet 4 prong twist lock for a BIAB controller that controlled 2 pumps and one 5500 watt element (High Gravity EBC130, Auber cube, etc.). And also have 1 20 amp put in to run a 4500W element with the blichmann controller. Then I'd have pump control. But this would cost much more. ANd I would probably just get the BIAB controller at first and attempt kettle rims until I bought the blichmann controller.

Either way I think this would set me up to run both elements at once, batch sparge back to back, and even HERMS setup in the future.

Any thoughts?

 

[brewman !]

A two amp difference in max current draw for the element may seem trivial, but it is enough to run Chugger type pump.

Plug the chugger pump into a separate circuit.

 

[doug293cz]

Plug the chugger pump into a separate circuit.

Anyone can always run pumps on separate circuits, but many brewers desire the convenience of being able to control everything from a single control panel. It's all about what the particular brewer wants, and what they can afford.

However, the primary point of my previous post was to correct a misconception about how current draw is determined when running at lower than rated voltage with a resistive load (i.e. a heating element.)

Brew on

 

[brewman !]

Run a separate circuit into the panel.

 

[doug293cz]

Run a separate circuit into the panel.

Sure, but that requires you to have two power input cords to the panel. Lot of brewers might not want this.

Brew on

 

[doublehaul]

Dudes...

Edit- although Doug293cz your example was really helpful and kinda what I'm basing this all on.

 

[brewman !]

Sure, but that requires you to have two power input cords to the panel. Lot of brewers might not want this.

There is a big cost differential for the GFCI, cable, receptacles and plugs for 15A, 20A, 25A, 30A and 50A runs, especially if you have a pre existing outlet that you just need to throw a GFCI outlet on. The title of the post is, after all, "Cheapest path to electric".

 

[augiedoggy]

There is a big cost differential for the GFCI, cable, receptacles and plugs for 15A, 20A, 25A, 30A and 50A runs, especially if you have a pre existing outlet that you just need to throw a GFCI outlet on. The title of the post is, after all, "Cheapest path to electric".

and then the OP went on to link blichmann products... lol the irony, (Not a cost effective option here)

seriously though the cheapest safest way would be to buy the $40 stilldragon kit , buy a $40-50 spa panel off ebay new and wire it inline. use a much cheaper regular breaker in the main panel rated for the line your running (30a is the most cost effective) and yes you could run the pump off it as well as the element but not sure why you would with this type of setup. it may actually make upgrading things more cumbersome down the road.

Now if your not looking for the cheapest but something cost effective with more bells and whistles, then yes a real control panel with 4 wire power for everything will make the most sense in the long run as you keep changing and upgrading to your liking if you stick with it.

I have two power cords on my larger 3bbl panel and it can add limitations to things and cost due to keeping circuits separate but I can see it being the best option for some depending on what they have to work with too... In my case I needed a minimum of 100a of power on a single phase power source. 2 60a gfci circuits was the best way to do this and give me wiggle room.

 

[doublehaul]

and then the OP went on to link blichmann products... lol the irony, (Not a cost effective option here)

seriously though the cheapest safest way would be to buy the $40 stilldragon kit , buy a $40-50 spa panel off ebay new and wire it inline. use a much cheaper regular breaker in the main panel rated for the line your running (30a is the most cost effective) and yes you could run the pump off it as well as the element but not sure why you would with this type of setup. it may actually make upgrading things more cumbersome down the road.

Now if your not looking for the cheapest but something cost effective with more bells and whistles, then yes a real control panel with 4 wire power for everything will make the most sense in the long run as you keep changing and upgrading to your liking if you stick with it.

I have two power cords on my larger 3bbl panel and it can add limitations to things and cost due to keeping circuits separate but I can see it being the best option for some depending on what they have to work with too... In my case I needed a minimum of 100a of power on a single phase power source. 2 60a gfci circuits was the best way to do this and give me wiggle room.

At $150, the Blichmann controller is the cheapest ready made controller I've found.

 

[augiedoggy]

At $150, the Blichmann controller is the cheapest ready made controller I've found.

Fair enough but keep in mind thats literally the same type of ssvr / knob controller as the kit stilldragon sells for $37..here http://stilldragon.com/index.php/diy-small-controller.html . You can assemble it with a phillips screwdriver in about an hour... $100 for assembly and 4 times the cost is hardly "cheap".. But preassembled electric brewing equipment never is compared to DIY.. Guessed I missed that we were only talking about prebuilt stuff till now. Your right though as far as prebuilt 240v stuff thats fairly reasonable compared to what most charge.

 

[mongoose33]

Fair enough but keep in mind thats literally the same type of ssvr / knob controller as the kit stilldragon sells for $37..here http://stilldragon.com/index.php/diy-small-controller.html . You can assemble it with a phillips screwdriver in about an hour... $100 for assembly and 4 times the cost is hardly "cheap".. But preassembled electric brewing equipment never is compared to DIY.. Guessed I missed that we were only talking about prebuilt stuff till now. Your right though as far as prebuilt 240v stuff thats fairly reasonable compared to what most charge.

I think the price difference is a little less...doesn't the Blichmann come with two cords and plug and receptacle? You'd have to add that stuff to the Stilldragon, wouldn't you?

https://www.blichmannengineering.com/power-controller.html

And as long as we're headed in this direction , I'll point out the Auber Instruments panel (which you already know I did). It's DIY, in that you have to assemble it yourself, need to have some wire and terminals added, but it ends up being in the area of $400 when all is said and done. Assembly by Auber is about $200.

I did it myself (with a little bit of help , but I'm still very happy with it.

https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=64_66&products_id=809

 

[augiedoggy]

I think the price difference is a little less...doesn't the Blichmann come with two cords and plug and receptacle? You'd have to add that stuff to the Stilldragon, wouldn't you?

https://www.blichmannengineering.com/power-controller.html

And as long as we're headed in this direction , I'll point out the Auber Instruments panel (which you already know I did). It's DIY, in that you have to assemble it yourself, need to have some wire and terminals added, but it ends up being in the area of $400 when all is said and done. Assembly by Auber is about $200.

I did it myself (with a little bit of help , but I'm still very happy with it.

https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=64_66&products_id=809

View attachment 610055

Good point but heres the funny thing... The saving from the (2) 1ft cords and plug/outlet being there isnt really much of a savings if any because the cords are both so short you have to purchase extension cords more or less with plugs at both ends to extend them both so kind of a wash with the extra 2 female and male plugs needed unless you happen to have you brew outlet like right where you want the controller and even then the cord looks too short to actually mount on the wall and plug in though I could be wrong. I would think with the still dragon controller you only need the element cord to disconnect where it meets the element for convenience and in this case it actually add cost with the blichmann setup right? to have longer cords on the blichmann controller you have to buy all the same cord minus 2 ft and actually more male and female nema plugs and outlets right?

Blichmann actually sells these extension cables at an extra cost for this if you check the ad.

 

[smbdyshero]

I also live in Montana, so I feel your pain. Especially now that it is -15 and snowing. I have the Clawhammer Supply 120V system. I did a whole write up and review of it located here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/clawhammer-supply-biab-review.644250/. I absolutely love this complete system. I didn't want to mess around with wiring and all that other technical stuff, so this was a perfect fit. they also sell a 240V system now. Easiest plug and play system ever.

 

[BeerBaron1985]

Fair enough but keep in mind thats literally the same type of ssvr / knob controller as the kit stilldragon sells for $37..here http://stilldragon.com/index.php/diy-small-controller.html . You can assemble it with a phillips screwdriver in about an hour... $100 for assembly and 4 times the cost is hardly "cheap".. But preassembled electric brewing equipment never is compared to DIY.. Guessed I missed that we were only talking about prebuilt stuff till now. Your right though as far as prebuilt 240v stuff thats fairly reasonable compared to what most charge.

Does that diy system work with a 120vac 2250 element? Figure start with a BIAB setup from my propane extract system before I really go all out with a 3 vessel herms with the electric brewery 30A panel.

 

[augiedoggy]

Does that diy system work with a 120vac 2250 element? Figure start with a BIAB setup from my propane extract system before I really go all out with a 3 vessel herms with the electric brewery 30A panel.

you can wire it as a 120v controller yes its cheaper to assemble that way since the plugs are much cheaper.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Does that diy system work with a 120vac 2250 element? .

Since this is the “cheapest path” thread, I will add depending on batch size and kettle size, you may have no need to turn down the 2250 w element, and rather than a controller a simple on off switch would work fine ime....

Example - 11 to 15 gallon kettle and 5 gallon batch.

With a small kettle w/ wort near the top, you may need to turn the power down....but 2250w in my experience is not going to give you an overly vigorous boil w/ no need to reduce power unless your kettle is too small.
Try it and add features as you need.

Ymmv

 

[augiedoggy]

^good point.

 

[BeerBaron1985]

Since this is the “cheapest path” thread, I will add depending on batch size and kettle size, you may have no need to turn down the 2250 w element, and rather than a controller a simple on off switch would work fine ime....

Example - 11 to 15 gallon kettle and 5 gallon batch.

With a small kettle w/ wort near the top, you may need to turn the power down....but 2250w in my experience is not going to give you an overly vigorous boil w/ no need to reduce power unless your kettle is too small.
Try it and add features as you need.

Ymmv

I have a bayou 30 quart stainless kettle I want to put the 2250 watt in. The tri clamp one from brew hardware. I have the small solar 12 volt pump which should be fine for this size batch. I'll need to add two stainless valves with quick connects. one at the bottom for pickup and the other with a 90 degree elbow for whirlpooling/recirculating. Thoughts?


I really like the price of the Still dragon kit. Are there any videos of one using one? feedback on those who use it?



Another person was telling me that I shouldn't do the DIY kit, too dangerous if the SSVR fails, no safety off switch. He said to use a 40A SSR, and this PWM controller below. Then get a contactor coil with either a key switch or simple button to cut power in case of emergency. I'm thinking if anything does happen, yanking the plug is my off switch ha!

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001KGSJ74/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007TH4EN6/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[wilserbrewer]

Intended batch sizes? Your kettle is small for 5 gallon batches, you will need to turn down the element as you will be almost at the rim...

 

[BeerBaron1985]

Intended batch sizes? Your kettle is small for 5 gallon batches, you will need to turn down the element as you will be almost at the rim...

For the 30 quart, 5 gallon batch sizes tops. Most receipes I boil 3.5 to 4 gallons and add water to make 5 gallons.

Is 2250 watts too much or should i go with the 1650 watt? Long as I have more than enough power getting this controller I can dial it back with the DIY kit.