Cheapest path to electric

[doug293cz]

I have a bayou 30 quart stainless kettle I want to put the 2250 watt in. The tri clamp one from brew hardware. I have the small solar 12 volt pump which should be fine for this size batch. I'll need to add two stainless valves with quick connects. one at the bottom for pickup and the other with a 90 degree elbow for whirlpooling/recirculating. Thoughts?


I really like the price of the Still dragon kit. Are there any videos of one using one? feedback on those who use it?



Another person was telling me that I shouldn't do the DIY kit, too dangerous if the SSVR fails, no safety off switch. He said to use a 40A SSR, and this PWM controller below. Then get a contactor coil with either a key switch or simple button to cut power in case of emergency. I'm thinking if anything does happen, yanking the plug is my off switch ha!

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001KGSJ74/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007TH4EN6/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

The controller you link is a low voltage DC controller. It won't work with 120V (or 240V) AC.

Pulling the plug if an SSR/SSVR fails on will result in arcing which may damage the plug blades or receptacle contacts. Plugs/receptacles are not designed to be mated/de-mated when high currents are flowing. On the other hand, this is exactly what contactors are designed for. the contact points are made of exotic metal alloys that are resistant to arcing damage. But, then if pulling the plug is the only option, by all means do it if you need to.

Brew on

 

[BeerBaron1985]

The controller you link is a low voltage DC controller. It won't work with 120V (or 240V) AC.

Pulling the plug if an SSR/SSVR fails on will result in arcing which may damage the plug blades or receptacle contacts. Plugs/receptacles are not designed to be mated/de-mated when high currents are flowing. On the other hand, this is exactly what contactors are designed for. the contact points are made of exotic metal alloys that are resistant to arcing damage. But, then if pulling the plug is the only option, by all means do it if you need to.

Brew on

No, but it can vary the duty cycle of the PWM of 12 volts to the SSR which in turn controls the element output better. He was suggesting such a setup as superior to the dial/SSVR of the diy kit.

Dianne @ Still Dragon said the SSVR in their kit wont work with 120VAC unless i get a new dial pot. Asked her what value it should be. Eventually I will upgrade to 240VAC.

 

[doug293cz]

No, but it can vary the duty cycle of the PWM of 12 volts to the SSR which in turn controls the element output better. He was suggesting such a setup as superior to the dial/SSVR of the diy kit.

Dianne @ Still Dragon said the SSVR in their kit wont work with 120VAC unless i get a new dial pot. Asked her what value it should be. Eventually I will upgrade to 240VAC.

I'm pretty sure that PWM controller will have a cycle time that is too short to properly control an SSR. To control an SSR, the PWM cycle time should be greater than 1 second, or else the cycle time and triggering need to by synchronized and phase locked with the AC waveform. The effect of having too short a PWM cycle time would be to have the SSR full on for (almost) all settings of the PWM duty cycle.

Edit: I looked further into the listing and found the PWM cycle frequency:

• PWM frequency: 13 kHz

This corresponds to a cycle time of 77 micro sec, which means you will get a trigger pulse every 77 micro sec. Once an SSR or SSVR is triggered on, it won't shut off until the next time the current (voltage) wave goes thru 0, which happens once every 8.33 milli sec. So, every time the SSR/SSVR goes into off mode, it gets triggered on again within 77 micro sec, and stays on for essentially the full 8.33 milli sec half cycle. Thus the SSR/SSVR can only be off at most 0.077/8.33 = 0.009 = 0.9% of the time. So, the min power setting would be 99.1%.

You also would have to supply a separate 12V powet supply to use that PWM - more components and more cost.

Better option would just be to add a wall type switch in front of the SSVR to provide positive disconnect. For 120V, you need a 20A rated single pole single (SPST) throw switch. For 240V, you need a 30A rated double pole single throw (DPST) switch. A suitable 240V switch is the Leviton 3032, or equivalent.

Yes the supply voltage affects the pot value required to get the correct trigger timing for an SSVR.

Brew on

 

[BeerBaron1985]

Okay, so I found that the Still Dragon kit is priced appropriately, but shipping from FL is bad, almost $17 bucks with UPS to send to CT. No USPS option. I can get all the parts from amazon instead.

https://www.stilldragon.org/discussion/2241/review-stilldragon-diy-element-controller-kit-large-box

Decided I can model this setup for about $118 bucks total off Amazon. It was designed for 240VAC, but changing out the 500k ohm pot with a 100k ohm pot will adapt the function for 120VAC till I can upgrade. I already have a GFCI 20A 120VAC plug on my kitchen island.

$118 - DIY element controller, adds voltage current meter, 12V fan for heatsink cooling, and master cutoff switch for emergencies. I have leftover 10/3 from a generator install
~$103 - 2250 watt Tri clamp 120VAC element from Brewhardware

$45 - Greenlee 1-5/8" punch for element install.
$32 - Greenlee 13/16" punch for valve install
~$48 - Two 1/2" ball valves /w weldless bulkhead & 90 degree elbows, for pickup and whirlpool

All told, to get basic electric brewing functionality over propane is ~$350 for me. Its not terrible, but not what I would call cheap either, but it works. If I dis-include the greenlee punches then it appears to be much more reasonable. Those tools you really only use once on your kettles then you can resell them used for essentially what you paid for them in time.

The 240VAC upgrade is where the mad money comes in if one is not handy. The sub panel $22, 8AWG wiring ~$30, GFCI DP30A breaker $63, L14-30R w/box ~$25, and length SJ 10/4 cord ~$45, all this stuff is under $200, but if you had to pay an electrician to install all of this. Thats hundreds of dollars more easily.

 

[Phildo253]

I think the price difference is a little less...doesn't the Blichmann come with two cords and plug and receptacle? You'd have to add that stuff to the Stilldragon, wouldn't you?

https://www.blichmannengineering.com/power-controller.html

And as long as we're headed in this direction , I'll point out the Auber Instruments panel (which you already know I did). It's DIY, in that you have to assemble it yourself, need to have some wire and terminals added, but it ends up being in the area of $400 when all is said and done. Assembly by Auber is about $200.

I did it myself (with a little bit of help , but I'm still very happy with it.

https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=64_66&products_id=809

View attachment 610055

I have the exact same controller and built it myself over a weekend. I love it and it is super easy to use.

I then wired in a gfci 50 amp circuit into my panel and added an outlet. I made sure to test the load on all of the other circuits first to make sure that I wasn't overloading any of them.

 

[doublehaul]

The 240VAC upgrade is where the mad money comes in if one is not handy. The sub panel $22, 8AWG wiring ~$30, GFCI DP30A breaker $63, L14-30R w/box ~$25, and length SJ 10/4 cord ~$45, all this stuff is under $200, but if you had to pay an electrician to install all of this. Thats hundreds of dollars more easily.

The best quote I got was around $370 for the install. One contractor quoted me $1000